Take me to school on battery set-up

[Madifonzo]

Need some experienced advice and answers to some questions.

First, here is my configurarion: twin 50's. I have 3 batteries total. 1 is a dedicated cranking battery for the starboard engine. I have 2 others, a deep cycle and a starting battery. I have a dual battery switch. The starboard engine battery switch has an on/off only setting. The port switch has off/both/1/2.

So so here is my questions:

This was the first time we spent a full 3 days on the hook. All weekend I kept both battery switches on. At the end of the second day I ran both engines for about 20 minutes. On the third day I awoke to a dead port bank of batteries. CO sensor started chirping, which I assume to be indicating a low voltage situation. Fortunately I was with someone who had a genset and was able to charge up enough to engine running. Once I made the 40 minute cruise home all batteries were registering normal.

1. On the port switch, how does it isolate the batteries if they are connected?
2. How should I be setting the switches on the hook to insure that both starting batteries are good at the end of the trip.
3. Can I add a 2nd deep cycle connected to the first without making substantial changes to the switch setup. I beleive I have enough physical room for it.

i appreciate the feedback.

 

[BryanOnTheBay]

Need some experienced advice and answers to some questions.

First, here is my configurarion: twin 50's. I have 3 batteries total. 1 is a dedicated cranking battery for the starboard engine. I have 2 others, a deep cycle and a starting battery. I have a dual battery switch. The starboard engine battery switch has an on/off only setting. The port switch has off/both/1/2.

So so here is my questions:

This was the first time we spent a full 3 days on the hook. All weekend I kept both battery switches on. At the end of the second day I ran both engines for about 20 minutes. On the third day I awoke to a dead port bank of batteries. CO sensor started chirping, which I assume to be indicating a low voltage situation. Fortunately I was with someone who had a genset and was able to charge up enough to engine running. Once I made the 40 minute cruise home all batteries were registering normal.

1. On the port switch, how does it isolate the batteries if they are connected?
2. How should I be setting the switches on the hook to insure that both starting batteries are good at the end of the trip.
3. Can I add a 2nd deep cycle connected to the first without making substantial changes to the switch setup. I beleive I have enough physical room for it.

i appreciate the feedback.

I am not really going to begin to answer this, though there are Volumes of information on CSR. The piece of advice I am going to give is NEVER switch to "Both" on the hook with the setup you have. At that point, as you found out, you put all your batteries into parallel and drew equally from all of them. Then you later can't start. You may want to consider separating your house batteries, but that has been discussed.

My real advice is to do a search on "batteries" and read all the threads. It will be a fascinating day's read.

Bryan

 

[Madifonzo]

I am not really going to begin to answer this, though there are Volumes of information on CSR. The piece of advice I am going to give is NEVER switch to "Both" on the hook with the setup you have. At that point, as you found out, you put all your batteries into parallel and drew equally from all of them. Then you later can't start. You may want to consider separating your house batteries, but that has been discussed.

My real advice is to do a search on "batteries" and read all the threads. It will be a fascinating day's read.

Bryan

Just wanted quick concise answers to some pretty direct questions. I have searched CSR and it is a jumbled mess of threads within threads. Just try finding something related to batteries in the 280 forum (where I started to look). There are about 4500 posts in that thread and jump topic to topic. Thought I could get a straight answer from someone who has completed the project I am asking about. I am sure there are many topics that have been beaten to death. I appreciate the little advice you offered and will await answers from others that may be more willing to help.

Additional questions for others: the switch that is currently handling dual duty...is there a way to tell which setting is the house and which is the starting? My understanding is that they both will start the engine.

 

[paulswagelock]

On the hook, starboard = off
port = 1 or 2 but as stated above, never both.

to find out which is 1 and which is 2, disconnect one of the red terminals at the battery. Whichever switch position works, voila.

 

[Madifonzo]

On the hook, starboard = off
port = 1 or 2 but as stated above, never both.

to find out which is 1 and which is 2, disconnect one of the red terminals at the battery. Whichever switch position works, voila.

thanks. So what I am wondering is if I can add a 3rd battery to that bank. I want to run 2 house batts when selecting the house batt side (setting 1 or 2). I am wondering if there are other implications to consider such as alternator charging ability or if the factory charging system can handle it when connected to shore power. I have seen larger boats have four batteries total.

 

[Bt Doctur]

I would add a set of house batteries to operate everything DC on the boat .
I would change my battery switches to off-1-both-2
I would add a isolator/ Blu-Sea system, etc to charge the house batteries off either engine.
Normal battery switches are on 1, battery charger/inverter leads on 2.
A jumper between both switches 2 to 2 .
The Theory:
engine batteries are charged from each engine and both electrical systems are separate systems, not joined together. This way a failure in one system cannot include a failure in the second.
You can afford to kill house batteries but NOT engine batteries.
Also there is a service bulletin recommending a dedicated starting battery for the engine because of the computer. Too many spikes in the voltage and the ECM is toast.
engine batteries should never need a charge if there good and the alt are doing their job.
Keeping an engine battery on constant charge can boil it dry and hide a bad battery.
Most chargers have dual feed, 1 goes to #2 on one of the switches, the other lead to the house side.
House is always charged while on shore power and motor batteries CAN BE CHARGED with the switch on #2

 

[K Ruck]

I found this post by old thirty three helpful to me, not sure if yours is same

http://clubsearay.com/showthread.php/10064-Official-280-Sundancer-Thread/page181

 

[Bt Doctur]

service bulletin 97-5 describes the battery voltage issue

 

[Madifonzo]

I would add a set of house batteries to operate everything DC on the boat .
I would change my battery switches to off-1-both-2
I would add a isolator/ Blu-Sea system, etc to charge the house batteries off either engine.
Normal battery switches are on 1, battery charger/inverter leads on 2.
A jumper between both switches 2 to 2 .
The Theory:
engine batteries are charged from each engine and both electrical systems are separate systems, not joined together. This way a failure in one system cannot include a failure in the second.
You can afford to kill house batteries but NOT engine batteries.
Also there is a service bulletin recommending a dedicated starting battery for the engine because of the computer. Too many spikes in the voltage and the ECM is toast.
engine batteries should never need a charge if there good and the alt are doing their job.
Keeping an engine battery on constant charge can boil it dry and hide a bad battery.
Most chargers have dual feed, 1 goes to #2 on one of the switches, the other lead to the house side.
House is always charged while on shore power and motor batteries CAN BE CHARGED with the switch on #2

Now I am a little confused. When connected to shore power are you saying the selected switches also control which batteries are getting charged? When I am connected I always left all switches on. As opposed to now, I am on a mooring and leave all battery switches off.

 

[bbwhitejr]

All batteries should charge when connected to shore power or gen. When running your engine, you are charging which ever battery you are pulling from to start engine(indicated by switch).

Your battery switches only select which batteries are used.

Bennett

 

[paulswagelock]

thanks. So what I am wondering is if I can add a 3rd battery to that bank. I want to run 2 house batts when selecting the house batt side (setting 1 or 2). I am wondering if there are other implications to consider such as alternator charging ability or if the factory charging system can handle it when connected to shore power. I have seen larger boats have four batteries total.

You could add another battery in parallel with your house battery. They need to be the same type and capacity, and ideally the same relative age. Your charger would charge both, but you should check the amp rating of your charger. Alternator would charge both, but ideally you would not start and run on this bank, it would just be used for accessories, and charged when back on shore power.

your charger should charge all batteries regardless of switch position.

 

[BryanOnTheBay]

Just wanted quick concise answers to some pretty direct questions. I have searched CSR and it is a jumbled mess of threads within threads. Just try finding something related to batteries in the 280 forum (where I started to look). There are about 4500 posts in that thread and jump topic to topic. Thought I could get a straight answer from someone who has completed the project I am asking about. I am sure there are many topics that have been beaten to death. I appreciate the little advice you offered and will await answers from others that may be more willing to help.

Additional questions for others: the switch that is currently handling dual duty...is there a way to tell which setting is the house and which is the starting? My understanding is that they both will start the engine.

I wasn't trying to be unhelpful. The issue is there is no one right solution. A lot depends on how you personally use your boat. What I would do would be different than what you would do.

Bt Doctur has some great information, but my concern is that you have a bit more grounding (no pun intended) in the how's and why's of battery set up. I do agree with isolating the starting batteries from the house, but the house set up is an art in and of itself.

My answers to your questions would be:
1. The port batteries should not be connected to each other, only the battery switch. The switch only isolates them when you do not have it switched to Both.

2. With your setup, Paulswagelock is correct. I would add that once you have determined which is which, only use the house battery on the hook by setting the switch to that battery. The starboard battery switch should be off.

3. Yes, but I would consider changing the set up.

Also, something is not right in your setup OR you have a bad starboard battery as that switch should ONLY supply power to the engine, and therefore should not have been drained. In order to figure out what is happening, you need a deeper understanding of what is going on on your boat. There should also be an emergency starting switch that ties your starting batteries together for just the situation that you encountered. Please read up on this before you go changing things or adding batteries.

Bryan

 

[Madifonzo]

I appreciate the feedback. I had the port battery switch set to both which is why both were dead. Now that I understand my set up better I am more aware of what I ned to do on the hook. I am planning over the winter to upgrade my group 27 deep cycle and starting batteries to at least group 29's. Plus my understanding throug research is that although my batteries are good for starting and a day on the hook they may be showing there age at 4 years old by not lasting more than a day. In addition to new batteries and a better understanding as to how the system works I will be doing some energy saving things such as switching to led lights.

I just oust thought of another question related to the battery switch. I know it is a huge No No (or at least I have been told) to switch a battery switch off while the engine is running but what about switching from 1-2-both?

 

[paulswagelock]

A long as your switch is make before break, you can switch from 1 to both to 2.
find the model and verify- most are.

 

[BryanOnTheBay]

I appreciate the feedback. I had the port battery switch set to both which is why both were dead. Now that I understand my set up better I am more aware of what I ned to do on the hook. I am planning over the winter to upgrade my group 27 deep cycle and starting batteries to at least group 29's. Plus my understanding throug research is that although my batteries are good for starting and a day on the hook they may be showing there age at 4 years old by not lasting more than a day. In addition to new batteries and a better understanding as to how the system works I will be doing some energy saving things such as switching to led lights.

I just oust thought of another question related to the battery switch. I know it is a huge No No (or at least I have been told) to switch a battery switch off while the engine is running but what about switching from 1-2-both?

As long as you switch through "Both" there is no problem. You always want a battery connected while the alternator is running. "Both" does that.

Bryan

 

[Madifonzo]

Just to revisit this thread briefly. I figured out which batteries are connected to 1-2 on the switch. My question relates to alternator charging. Is the alternator only charging the battery as indicated on the switch? What I learned is that the engine will start on 1-2-both but house appliances will only work on position 2. This leads me to believe that the engine is connected by both batteries so I would assume they are both being charged when the engine is running.

 

[dpmulvey]

For simplicity sake....... The alternator will charge the battery the engine is connected to. The switch is to preclude drain on the hook.

 

[dpmulvey]

The easiest solution. Rewire..

 

[bbwhitejr]

The alternator is only charging the battery indicated on the switch. Mine will also start the engine in 1-2-both. I can also pick which battery(s) to pull from for the house. If your house only works on battery 2, as David said, rewire.....

Bennett