Survey Left me pondering

[olds72]

I just had a 98 330 Dancer surveyed. Here are the good points.
1. Stringers are solid.
2. salon is very nice
3. cockpit is very nice
4. all canvas is good. including isnglass
5. all electronics are good
6. all 120v system is good
7 all 12v system is good.
8. refrigerators are working
9 fuel pumps come on
10. vac u flush works
11. fresh water system works
12. 7.4 mpi engines inboards with very low hrs.

Basically everything checks out. Here is where I am nervous.

1. the deck has soft areas around the windlass, down each gunnel about 5-6 ft
2. under the windshield is soft.
3. the boat has been painted from the rub rail down. Why?
4. swim platform has a soft spot.
5. port side rudder is slightly bent
6. There is some end play in both shafts

The boat is beautiful looking. The current owner has only had it a month and lost his job. He did not have a survey done when he bought it. After the survey we talked and basically offered it to me for 55% less. I called a local boat fiberglass specialist and described the soft deck. He gave me a ball park figure to fix the deck only of up to $10k. That's not including under the windshield. I asked the owner if he was going to put it in the water and he said no. For the price, I buy it as it. He did a sea test when he bought it in April. So, I would believe the engines and generator run. The owner told me he tested A/C and geny.

Do I buy it and have the deck fixed? Do I walk away? I would be in the boat for about $20k less than if the survey had been good.

 

[sbw1]

People tend to underestimate the costs of fixing these types of issues. It would not interest me in the slightest. Plus the boat is of the age when most of the consumables such as refrigerators, electronics, interiors start to fail or require replacement. And, you take the seller's word that the engines and genny work? Hardly due diligence on your part. If you go ahead, expect some regrets.

 

[BillK2632]

The soft areas in the deck and swim platform can pretty much be expected on a 23yr old boat and might not need fixing, at least not immediately. Remember it took 23yrs for this to progress and it is certainly caused by flexing around the windless and the fact there are so many holes fastening the windshield along with the snaps that are constantly getting wet. These are good boats, but time takes it toll on things. You have to expect issues when you buy something 23yrs old. The fact that you have not and cannot run the engines could be hiding a huge problem -- or not -- it's a risk you are taking. They make new boats, but they cost a lot more and they aren't perfect either.

I would be curious about the paint - is it white or did they want a different color. Or was there damage repaired and it was painted instead of gelcoat. The bent rudder might be part of the explanation.

I personally would not walk away over the deck, but I might if the paint was hiding significant damage. But I would think the survey should have found any structural damage or evidence of a repair.

Otherwise, the paint can be a good thing, it will actually hold up better over time than the gelcoat finish.

 

[swaterhouse]

Generally when you are buying a boat you as the buyer pay all survey expenses except for fuel and a "captain" of the owners choice to run the boat for the survey. Those expenses you incur usually include launch or haulout fees. Somewhat more negotiable is winterization/summarization, but at this time of year with a market this hot I would expect you to have to cover those expenses.

Basically any estimate sight unseen you can easily expect to double, and you have two areas so make that triple the initial estimate. I would agree the softness wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker, but you do need to factor in a potential repair cost.

I would get a mechanical inspection and sea trial before moving forward, this just smells of a "I bought a boat without a survey and now found out I bought a boat with a ton of issues and I want out now while the market is stupidly expensive". You don't want yourself to be in that same position.

 

[bajturner]

I just had a 98 330 Dancer surveyed. Here are the good points.
1. Stringers are solid.
2. salon is very nice
3. cockpit is very nice
4. all canvas is good. including isnglass
5. all electronics are good
6. all 120v system is good
7 all 12v system is good.
8. refrigerators are working
9 fuel pumps come on
10. vac u flush works
11. fresh water system works
12. 7.4 mpi engines inboards with very low hrs.

Basically everything checks out. Here is where I am nervous.

1. the deck has soft areas around the windlass, down each gunnel about 5-6 ft
2. under the windshield is soft.
3. the boat has been painted from the rub rail down. Why?
4. swim platform has a soft spot.
5. port side rudder is slightly bent
6. There is some end play in both shafts

The boat is beautiful looking. The current owner has only had it a month and lost his job. He did not have a survey done when he bought it. After the survey we talked and basically offered it to me for 55% less. I called a local boat fiberglass specialist and described the soft deck. He gave me a ball park figure to fix the deck only of up to $10k. That's not including under the windshield. I asked the owner if he was going to put it in the water and he said no. For the price, I buy it as it. He did a sea test when he bought it in April. So, I would believe the engines and generator run. The owner told me he tested A/C and geny.

Do I buy it and have the deck fixed? Do I walk away? I would be in the boat for about $20k less than if the survey had been good.

You can't buy a boat like this without doing a sea trial and full mechanical inspection. You need to be able to put it in the water and put the throttle wide open to see what happens, what breaks, what overheats, what vibrates, etc...

 

[Chip S]

All engines "run great" when the boat is on land. There's no way to know if the engines actually run correctly except by doing a sea trial. I looked at a Tiara 2700 (twin inboard) many years ago. The engines started right up and idled fine. When we took it out for a sea trial the rpms were correct but the speed was only 19 mph instead of the 27 mph the manual said it should be. Long story short, the engine compression was low and the owner had put lower pitch props on to compensate. Both engines needed to be replaced. There's no way I would have known by just idling in the slip. Never buy a boat without a sea trial.

 

[northern]

Bent stuff can be expensive to fix it can require structure to be replaced.

 

[Golfman25]

I just had a 98 330 Dancer surveyed. Here are the good points.
1. Stringers are solid.
2. salon is very nice
3. cockpit is very nice
4. all canvas is good. including isnglass
5. all electronics are good
6. all 120v system is good
7 all 12v system is good.
8. refrigerators are working
9 fuel pumps come on
10. vac u flush works
11. fresh water system works
12. 7.4 mpi engines inboards with very low hrs.

Basically everything checks out. Here is where I am nervous.

1. the deck has soft areas around the windlass, down each gunnel about 5-6 ft
2. under the windshield is soft.
3. the boat has been painted from the rub rail down. Why?
4. swim platform has a soft spot.
5. port side rudder is slightly bent
6. There is some end play in both shafts

The boat is beautiful looking. The current owner has only had it a month and lost his job. He did not have a survey done when he bought it. After the survey we talked and basically offered it to me for 55% less. I called a local boat fiberglass specialist and described the soft deck. He gave me a ball park figure to fix the deck only of up to $10k. That's not including under the windshield. I asked the owner if he was going to put it in the water and he said no. For the price, I buy it as it. He did a sea test when he bought it in April. So, I would believe the engines and generator run. The owner told me he tested A/C and geny.

Do I buy it and have the deck fixed? Do I walk away? I would be in the boat for about $20k less than if the survey had been good.

Sounds like one of the first "covid regret" boats. Are you talking about today's stupid prices or prices from a few years ago?

The deck structure sounds like it might be a complete re-do. The good news is because you have the older style non-skid, you can attack it from the top with is easier and cheaper than from underneath. The shaft play sounds like cutlass bearings -- probably a couple of boat bucks to replace. Without a sea trial, who know what the engines will do. So assume the worst. If you can get the boat in the low to mid teens, and are willing to take the risk you might end up with something reasonable. But it's on you do do a lot of due diligence. Boat isn't going anywhere. Good luck.

 

[Ididntdoit]

Whats to ponder? The boat needs major work and will only get worse with time - it is a very messy and time consuming repair - I redid the same on an '06 250 amberjack last year. You could try injectadeck near the windshield, but there is no way I would trust it by the windlass. I bought the AJ without hearing it run.......but I only paid 4k

 

[Jus the two of us]

No matter how good of a deal I would have to see it run in the water and see everything work under a load. That's just me. Sometimes you get things give to you and it's still not a good deal.

 

[Gofirstclass]

I haven't looked lately, but I would guess there are a TON of 330's on the market around the Great Lakes. I would start to look on Yacht World to see what's available before I'd get too interested in the boat you're looking at.

Rule #1 in boat buying--don't let your emotions get you into a boat that is going to cost you a ton of money to make it right.

Find a boat that has fewer deficiencies.

 

[olds72]

The soft areas in the deck and swim platform can pretty much be expected on a 23yr old boat and might not need fixing, at least not immediately. Remember it took 23yrs for this to progress and it is certainly caused by flexing around the windless and the fact there are so many holes fastening the windshield along with the snaps that are constantly getting wet. These are good boats, but time takes it toll on things. You have to expect issues when you buy something 23yrs old. The fact that you have not and cannot run the engines could be hiding a huge problem -- or not -- it's a risk you are taking. They make new boats, but they cost a lot more and they aren't perfect either.

I would be curious about the paint - is it white or did they want a different color. Or was there damage repaired and it was painted instead of gelcoat. The bent rudder might be part of the explanation.

I personally would not walk away over the deck, but I might if the paint was hiding significant damage. But I would think the survey should have found any structural damage or evidence of a repair.

Otherwise, the paint can be a good thing, it will actually hold up better over time than the gelcoat finish.

My surveyor spent over 3 hrs on this boat. He could not find any structural damage. He said the most likely cause of water intrusion was the hatches. The local boat fiberglass guy said people paint boats for many reasons. He just painted 2 because they were chalked really bad. The previous owner obviously hit something as one of the props had some damage also. Those are being repaired. I am most likely going to pass on this boat. It's a shame because it really is a good looking boat.

 

[olds72]

I haven't looked lately, but I would guess there are a TON of 330's on the market around the Great Lakes. I would start to look on Yacht World to see what's available before I'd get too interested in the boat you're looking at.

Rule #1 in boat buying--don't let your emotions get you into a boat that is going to cost you a ton of money to make it right.

Find a boat that has fewer deficiencies.

There is not as many as you would think. Most of them would require a large shipping cost. The used boat market is crazy.

 

[olds72]

Whats to ponder? The boat needs major work and will only get worse with time - it is a very messy and time consuming repair - I redid the same on an '06 250 amberjack last year. You could try injectadeck near the windshield, but there is no way I would trust it by the windlass. I bought the AJ without hearing it run.......but I only paid 4k

I wouldn't be repairing it. I would take it directly to the local specialist and he would replace the core.

 

[olds72]

No matter how good of a deal I would have to see it run in the water and see everything work under a load. That's just me. Sometimes you get things give to you and it's still not a good deal.

That is the number one reason I probably will pass on this boat. The owner will not put it in the water so I can check the engines, A/C and genny. He said since he is loosing his butt, he will not pay to have it put in.

 

[olds72]

Sounds like one of the first "covid regret" boats. Are you talking about today's stupid prices or prices from a few years ago?

The deck structure sounds like it might be a complete re-do. The good news is because you have the older style non-skid, you can attack it from the top with is easier and cheaper than from underneath. The shaft play sounds like cutlass bearings -- probably a couple of boat bucks to replace. Without a sea trial, who know what the engines will do. So assume the worst. If you can get the boat in the low to mid teens, and are willing to take the risk you might end up with something reasonable. But it's on you do do a lot of due diligence. Boat isn't going anywhere. Good luck.

My surveyor said 20's and if its blessed with good motors, I could at least resell it. The deck work would need to be done also.

 

[olds72]

All engines "run great" when the boat is on land. There's no way to know if the engines actually run correctly except by doing a sea trial. I looked at a Tiara 2700 (twin inboard) many years ago. The engines started right up and idled fine. When we took it out for a sea trial the rpms were correct but the speed was only 19 mph instead of the 27 mph the manual said it should be. Long story short, the engine compression was low and the owner had put lower pitch props on to compensate. Both engines needed to be replaced. There's no way I would have known by just idling in the slip. Never buy a boat without a sea trial.

I agree on the sea trial. but this guy will not pay to put in the water since he is loosing his butt.

 

[Creekwood]

I agree on the sea trial. but this guy will not pay to put in the water since he is loosing his butt.

I just realized you have two threads you posted on, so reposting here:

The 330 is not known for transom or stringer issues, but is known for rotting balsa core decks. I would get a firm quote for the work before you commit. $10K sounds low to me for what seems like a complete deck rebuild. I had the area under the windlass done and back about 4 feet down the walkways and it was the equivalent of US$5K and they did it from the top. I have no moisture issues around any deck hatches or the windshield.

What you describe is a MAJOR reconstruction from the inside and I would bet its far more than $10K, if you get a firm quote. I would guess more like $15K maybe more. You may want to keep looking for one without that level of deck rot. That is what I would do.

 

[nealtrombley]

I agree on the sea trial. but this guy will not pay to put in the water since he is loosing his butt.

this alone you pass...

 

[Golfman25]

That is the number one reason I probably will pass on this boat. The owner will not put it in the water so I can check the engines, A/C and genny. He said since he is loosing his butt, he will not pay to have it put in.

Doesn't his winter storage include a spring launch? He's going to have an easier time selling it in the water. In fact, a little lipstick on it and he'll probably get top dollar. Buyers aren't doing surveys anymore.