Sundancer 460

K

kaycien

New Member
Apr 22, 2012
5
Mystic, CT
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I was looking at a 2003/04 sundancer 460. I have boated lightly about 9 years back on a 16 foot Bayliner. I now have 3 kids and thought a bigger boat might be better (more space for the family). Is the Sundancer 460 too big for me to handle with my limited boating experience?

Also, someone mentioned that larger boats might have difficulty finding boat slips (I live near Mystic, CT) when and if I travel to (Block Island or Martha's Vineyard). Sundancer 460 Beam is 14' 8" and length about 51'4" per Sea Ray site (other sites state 46' length). Any insight on whether Marinas consider this as 51' or 46' boat? Also, will I have difficulty getting slips for transient use?
 
A 460 DA is a great boat. It is a big boat, but handles well. Be sure you're ready for the committment of a "big" boat in terms of cost, maintenance, and time. Although I haven't looked recently for slips, I suspect in the Mystic area there are choices available. Check up and down the Mystic River on availability and also check on the feel ie: character of the marina. Typically marinas look at LOA (51') for slip charges. Little problem getting slips for transient use so long as your wallet can afford.
 
Let's face it, this quite a jump from 16' Bayliner to 460DA and no matter how you twist it and turn it there will be a learning curve. I personally think that you on the right track in terms of going directly for the "gold", which people often refer as to the biggest you can get. Having 3 kids will make mid 30' range DA feel small very fast. The more you use the boat the faster it'll become smaller. I personally think that 45' yacht is some sort of a "golden middle", b/c it's big a comfortable enough for family with kids and somewhat reasonable in terms of expenses for maintenance, slip fees, insurance, etc. and yet you don't run in to the issues where marinas can't handle it.

As with any boat purchase, I always say that knowing how you're planning to use your boat is the key. This also can drive your decision from model to model. For example, you might want to look in to the bridge boats. Something like 400DB or 420DB will give you lots of room to fit your family and this is where you don't have to be at 51' LOA in order to get more real estate. But, of course if your finances allow the best fit (for family with 3 kids) would be 480DB (it has 3 state rooms).

I'm pretty sure that you'll be happy with any models we're discussing here. You just have to choose the one that fits your needs best.

Keep the questions coming. Good luck with the search.

BTW, if you want to see a nice 460DA up close, hook up with Russ, he's from your neck of the woods.
 
Last edited:
kaycien said:
I was looking at a 2003/04 sundancer 460. I have boated lightly about 9 years back on a 16 foot Bayliner. I now have 3 kids and thought a bigger boat might be better (more space for the family). Is the Sundancer 460 too big for me to handle with my limited boating experience?

Also, someone mentioned that larger boats might have difficulty finding boat slips (I live near Mystic, CT) when and if I travel to (Block Island or Martha's Vineyard). Sundancer 460 Beam is 14' 8" and length about 51'4" per Sea Ray site (other sites state 46' length). Any insight on whether Marinas consider this as 51' or 46' boat? Also, will I have difficulty getting slips for transient use?
Click to expand...

Great place to pose the question...I have been boating for 20+years and the majority of these years have been in Sundancers. Within the past year I went from a 33' to the 460 and let me tell you, THERE IS DIFFERENCE! The 460 is a BIG BOAT and acts like one. There is a lot of real estate with this vessel so if I were you I would make sure I had some lessons with a captain prior to taking my family out.

Good luck!
 
Intimidation, or rather managing it, is the key to learning to handle a big boat. Some of us who have been at this a while can jump on a new/different/bigger boat and go as soon as we figure out where everything is. Others let the amount of boat in front of the windshield scare them to death so their learning curve is longer. I'd say don't start out worrying about the size of the boat. Figure out what suits you, and the 460DA is a great boat for your intended purpose, then start learning by taking safe boating classes, reading everything you can find, ask questions here --once you get past the clowns in the bunch, we do have some very experienced owners........be a boating knowledge sponge.

On slip availability, I've got the predecessor to the 460 and its got about the same dimensions. Local conditions here are such that a regular local slip to handle a 14' beam is scarce. We don't give up our slips for any reason short of a majpr change. My advice, since I don't know your area, is to shop around, look at several marinas and see where you want to be, what marina has a good family environment, who has space available, etc.

As far as transient slips go, you would have about as much trouble finding a transient slip for a 30 ft boat as for a 46. I find that transient slip availability is directly related to your ability to plan ahead. Wait till June 15 and you will most likely be staying at home on July 4th weekend, but if you plan ahead and communicate your needs early, most marinas can accommodate a 460.

Good luck with your search...............
 
fwebster said:
..........................--once you get past the clowns in the bunch, we do have some very experienced owners........be a boating knowledge sponge.

...............
Click to expand...

Frank,
You crack me up!! You're the best man!!
 
kaycien said:
I was looking at a 2003/04 sundancer 460. I have boated lightly about 9 years back on a 16 foot Bayliner. I now have 3 kids and thought a bigger boat might be better (more space for the family). Is the Sundancer 460 too big for me to handle with my limited boating experience?

Also, someone mentioned that larger boats might have difficulty finding boat slips (I live near Mystic, CT) when and if I travel to (Block Island or Martha's Vineyard). Sundancer 460 Beam is 14' 8" and length about 51'4" per Sea Ray site (other sites state 46' length). Any insight on whether Marinas consider this as 51' or 46' boat? Also, will I have difficulty getting slips for transient use?
Click to expand...

I can speak from experience in Mystic and surround, seasonal dockage is available but limited. Definitely something you want to look into prior to purchase. Some charge by LOA and it is 51'4" with the standard platform, not hydraulic. Most require a certain size slip based on your LOA- I had a 50' slip at Seaport in Mystic with my 370 and now a 60' slip at Ft Rachel for the 460. My 370 is now at Gwenmore (all Mystic) btw- if you decide 40' loa is a fit she is for sale (advertised on this site too)! And after making reservations for the coming season at the popular boating destinations I quickly became aware how few spots are available compared to the 40' sweet spot. That being said I hope it helps, also if you are interested in getting close and personal with a 460 you are welcome to come down- even go for a ride if you like. She is definately a whole different animal compared to my 370, diesel being a major and money right next to it! Feel free to contact me if I can help, good luck!
 
Thank you all for great feedack.

I had a chance to look at the boat today. This is a 2004 sundancer 460 and a beautiful boat inside out. Length was not too intimidating, however I can see manouvering around the slip will be a big problem. My wife is not a swimmer and with a 1 year baby it will be challenge getting her to help me.

I am now thinking of taking some sailing lessons this year. Once I do the sailing lessons I will be able to charter some smaller (24 ft) sailboats perhaps even head out with my 9 year old on sailboat and revisit 460 DA next year.
 
I'll try not to be one of those clowns Frank mentioned above and throw in my $0.02!

The 460 is an awesome boat and will serve your needs well. I am fairly confident that you would be able to handle her with minimal trouble as long as you do as Frank says and become a boating sponge and get some professional instruction on the operation and handling of the boat.

That being said we are a family of 5 have spent many weekends on our 33' Sundancer and have gone for a week together and did not feel cramped. We have 3 children 17, 9, and 8. I don't know the ages of your children but I can assure you our two youngest slept together in two sleeping bags in the aft cabin for years. Today the two girls sleep on the dinette and my son has the aft to himself.

It is true get the biggest you can afford and like I said the 460 is an outstanding boat.
 
You may want to check on your ability to obtain insurance at a reasonable rate with no prior yacht operation experience.
 
mistercomputerman said:
You may want to check on your ability to obtain insurance at a reasonable rate with no prior yacht operation experience.
Click to expand...

This is correct, insurance may cost you a bit more the first year until you can demonstrate experience with a larger boat. In my case Progresive handled my first year with my jump from a 21' to a 40', but after that a true yacht policy with "experience rating" was available for about 2/3 of the first year cost. Immaterial to total operations. Buy the large boat and enjoy it!
 
kaycien said:
...I had a chance to look at the boat today. This is a 2004 sundancer 460 and a beautiful boat inside out. Length was not too intimidating, however I can see manouvering around the slip will be a big problem. My wife is not a swimmer and with a 1 year baby it will be challenge getting her to help me....
Click to expand...

The biggest helper to get your comfort level is to hire a professional captain who will teach you tips and tricks on how to maneuver this boat in different conditions. In regards to getting help from the crew, ever since I moved up from mid 20s to mid 30s (320DA) the only (if any) assistance I get from admiral is communication regarding how much room I have or I'm too close to an object. But, nothing physical like pushing off the piling or a bulkhead. So, once I'm in the slip admiral will assist with lines, but at this point it doesn't really matter, b/c the boat is in place and the rest is piece of cake. I've done number of trips single handed and it's not a big deal. The point is that other than a visual assistance on the larger boats it's pretty much up to the captain to maintain the control and position the boat where it needs to be. One cannot rely on the crew to push off the objects, the boat is just too heavy and it's more of a risk to have injured crew.

As you can imagine, the learning curve will be there regardless whether you'll buy 360 or 460. You'll have to learn how to operate twins. The good news is that it's usually easier to handle larger boats. I think it'll be easier to dock 460DA than 360DA. The boat is very heavy and will respond better due to the torque of diesel engines with large props. When you need to pause to re-asses the situation, she'll stay in one spot (in normal conditions) and you'll be able to make necessary adjustments.
 
Honestly, the 460DA is far easier to handle around a dock than a 24 single engine o/b or i/o...........that isn't a valid reason to avoid buying now.

There are some trick for single handling a mid sized boat. Stop the boat 1/2 way in the slip and get a spring line on a mid cleat to hold the boat off the dock then the rest is easy. I run boats up to 54 ft alone all the time and its not a big deal as long as your mind stays ahead of the boat.

I've seen insurance limits put on new buyers and those moving up a lot in size and complexity, but have not seen the policies rated. That means you can buy insurance at the prevailing rate, but may have a rider requiring you to have a licensed captain onboard for the first 3-6 months........and that usually isn't a bad thing given the experience level of the buyer. 40-ish ft Sea Rays are not usually considered difficult to manage or complex by insurors so I wouldn't expect particularly onerous limits on the fist years policy. just be sure you have a contract contingency for insurability in your home waters and a binder for the coverage before you close.
 
I put in a deposit for 2007 340 DA pending survey and sea trial. My decision on the smaller boat (compared to 460 DA) was based on -
1. Not willing to commit to a large boat to start with - (perhaps in a couple of years)
2. Lower annual costs and payments
3. Getting the slips (easier for a 340DA than 460)
4. Not overwhelmed by a much larger boat (some of you mentioned it was all in the mind - but 460 looks huge)
5. Insurance / Insurability for the large boat(?)
Wanted some advice on accelerating my boating skills (becoming a better boater faster). Yesterday I was at Hartford for the whole day at a Boater Safety class which was very helpful (in addition to being mandatory). Someone there suggested hiring a captain who can guide me the tricks of docking, anchoring, and general boating etiquette.

Any suggestions for hiring a captain in Mystic area? Also, any recommendations on a surveyor. The boat has bow thruster with twin inboards - so hopefully this helps with the docking!
Again - thanks for all the suggestions. You folks have been great.
 
There are lots of experienced folks around that should be willing to help you, you don't need a captain. However I am a licensed captain and would be willing to spend some time helping you get familiar with a new boat if you like.
 
Russ Calasant said:
There are lots of experienced folks around that should be willing to help you, you don't need a captain. However I am a licensed captain and would be willing to spend some time helping you get familiar with a new boat if you like.
Click to expand...

Thanks Russ. I may take you up on that.
 
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