Starter, Solenoid, or Seized Motor? Aaahhghgh!

What ever you are going to do please do not use any more either on it. If you have internal damage it will only make it worse. Either will wash down the cylinder walls and take away the wall lubrication causing it to loose compression. Try shooting a little oil in each cylinder and restarting it. Does the engine turn over quickly or does it seemed to drag? If it's dragging you may have a broken ring or worse. A compession test is definitly recommended if it will not start after oiling the cylinders.
 
I'm betting on a dead battery (rather than a frozen engine) and a fuel issue (since the plugs were dry and spark seems fine). It's actually pretty rare for an engine to just sieze up over the winter - it happens - but unlikely.
 
Okay. I will stop for sure with the ether. It does seem to turn over a little slower than I would expect. I mean it is not dreadfully slow but definitely not at full operating speed. To lube the cylinders should I use something like transmission fluid? I figure I needs something that will stick. Just squirt it on in?

To repair the rings, do I actually have to pull the motor or can I take off the head in the boat and pull everythign from there? Never done it before.
 
Just one short squirt of motor oil in each cylinder is good. Make sure the battery is up to snuff after all the cranking you have been doing. If you are a weekend worrier mechanic then the lower end should be looked at by a professional. Its not hard if you know how to do it but there are some very critical steps that can not be shorted. Bearing and main cap alignment, piston position, gear timing, things like that. I would pull the engine myself but I don't know how much room you have to work with. It's a lot easier to rotate the crankshaft up and work on it instead of on your back under the thing.
Just my opinion. Jump in here any time folks if there's something I mis-stated.
 
Replacing rings with the block still in the boat would be a nightmare, if not impossible. You have to pull the oil pan to get to the rod caps.
 
Thanks for the hints. Here is my final plan:

1. Squirt the oil in the cylinders
2. Check my rotor and points in my distributor and do a spark test
3. Borrow my firends compression tester and check that
4. Take it to a pro with the knowledge that I did everything reasonable I could.
 
zuhl - the visit to the pro may be the right path. But on the DIY effort, also check fuel, fuel quality (no water, etc.), and charge / replace your battery, check cables, etc. ps - it won't take much oil in the cylinders.
 
Checked compression last night after adding a smidge of oil in each cylinder to lube it up. 60, 120, 120, 140 psi. The 60 is way out of spec, but given that 3 of four are still fine, I always thought that would only make it run like crap, not necessarily make it not start. I am beginning to really wonder if this new starter is turning it over too slow. It just looks slow to me. But it is brand new!

Tonight I check the distributor. Even though I know I have spark - I just dont know if it is enough. I just have a hard time beleiveing this one too.
 
All have great comments. If you are only running 60PSI then you may have a piston that is gulled or scored in the cylinder. This would let compression by and drag against the cylinder wall causing slow starting revolutions. Can you smell either in the engine oil? That would be a good indicator that this has happened. All engines have a minimum start up RPM. if not met you will never get it started. Is the starter getting hot fairly quickly, if so then there is a drag on it. Again may be from piston.
Any other thoughts on this folks?
 
I am posting this picture just to show extreme piston gulling. These are from a diesel engine but the effect is the same for gas engines. Either can do this is used to much.
 
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Sheesh. That sounds really bad. I was hoping it was just a stuck exhaust valve that was causing the loss of compression. This sounds really expensive :-(

Is there any reason why a regular automotive mechanic could not work on this? I can find one back in my hometown that is way cheaper than the $100/hr boat mechanics around here.
 
So I took it to a mechanic who is a friend of the family but is too damn slow at getting to it so I am gonna go to a legitimate (expensive) marine mechanic. The guy who has it now has said that he found water on the plugs after he ran the flush kit while trying to start it. And his compression numbers were all over the place compared to mine.

Given that water is getting to the plugs, I am wondering what the problem could be. Best case I think would be a bad head gasket. But then the head could have warped too. But it could also be a cracked block I suppose, but there is no water in the oil that I can see. It should be all milky if it was getting in and it is not.

But how can I tell that that the rings are not bad since it was siezed up? I mean, at that point, I might as well just get a new long block, right? Or could it be fixed? Either way I would have to pull the motor if that was the case.

There is a place I found called Carolina Marine that would deliver a newly overhauled long block with a 1 year warranty for $1600.

Just so disgusted that this is gonna cost me a fortune.
 
UPDATE:

So I found out what is causing the problem but I dont yet know the extend of the problem. Apparently where the exhaust manifold meets the exhaust elbow had a rotted gasket which in turn corroded the manifold and allowed water to run back into the motor through the exhaust valves. So whenever I try to start it the motor is being flooded by water. I supposed that this means it should still start if the hose is not on it, but I am guessing there is probably a crapload of water just sitting in there waiting to ruing my day. The engine oil was overfull and half of it was water they said. Oddly, when I checked it, the oil looked normal on the dipstick, but I probably was not paying enough attention. Anyway, I am wondering if the water was ingested in the exhaust valves and forced past the piston rings into the oil pan with every stroke. That would also explain why it was seized from rust.

Assuming I can fix this, the (dry) compression is still all over the place. I hope the shop can get it started at least and see what my options are from there. Part of me wants to just take it out and sink, it.
 
Wow - that's pretty grim. Best of luck to you.
 
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