Starter, Solenoid, or Seized Motor? Aaahhghgh!

Z

zuhl

New Member
Aug 19, 2009
64
Houston, TX
Boat Info
1995 SeaRay 175 "Fiver Series" Bowrider, I/O, Alpha One, 3.0LX
Engines
3.0LX
I took out my boat a few weeks ago. It is a 1995 SeaRay 175 with a Mercruiser 3.0. It would not start. Just a clunk. I figured bad battery since it acted up last year. So I replaced it. Clunk. Damn. Then I looked at the starter. It wiggled wildly when the clunk happened. Then I noticed the brace was missing its bolt. So I wiggled it, then I found out the short bolt was missing and the housing at the long bolt was cracked. I guess the missing brace caused too much wiggle and broke it. Removed it and inspected the flywheel. It was not damaged, thank God.

So I replaced the starter (with solenoid) with a genuine Mercury part. Pretty easy, no big deal. Tried to fire it up. Clunk. Aaaagghghgh!

So I am stumped. Could it be the slave solenoid? I have heard the slave solenoid mentioned as a possible issue, but I dont know what it does or what its failure symptoms are. Is there a way to jumper the slave solenoid to see if it is the cause? Or do I have to spend money on a new one to find out.

But my biggest fear is that the motor is seized. Is there a way to test that out? I was looking at the crank and it is buried under the motor mounts and pulleys. I was wondering if pulling the plugs would relieve compression and free up the motor enough to turn it over by the pulleys. Or is there a better way to get a hold on the crank to turn over the motor?

Any thoughts or recommendations on trouble shooting this problem are appreciated.
 
If the starter wiggled when you energized it it's not the slave solenoid. If the new starter is good ( bench test will tell) The engine may in fact be locked up.
I'm sure it's not what you wanted to hear. Your idea of removing the plugs may free it up but there is a serious problem if that's what it is.

Jack
 
Oh no. I dont even know what actually happens when a motor seizes? The rings rust to the cylinder walls? Can you fix this? Or do I have to buy a new motor?

How could this happen putting it away in fine running condition. I use fuel stabilizer when I store it. I did not fog it, but I would go and turn over the motor once a month over the winter to keep everything lubed up. I guess that did not work.
 
I also read something about the outdrive being able to seize the motor, but I dont know how that works exactly.
 
If it were my boat here is what I would try:

1-remove the spark plugs and spray a decent amount of fogging oil in each cylinder. Let the oil soak for two hours.
2-Attempt to rotate the motor by turning the pullys and pulling on the belts. If the motor is free, this will be difficult but not impossible
3-If you can't turn the motor by hand, try the starter one last time.
4-If the motor will crank now, re-install the spark plugs, attach the wires, put on the muffs (if the boat is out of the water) turn on the water supply and start the motor. It will puke out some smoke for a little while until the fogging oil cleans out. Bring the engine up to full operating temp for about 10 minutes.
5-Change the oil and filter and then have fun boating.

I say all the above because if the engine is truly seized up from rust you have nothing to lose. You would have to tear the enging apart and do a re-build which may not be worth doing $wise.
 
Thanks. Worth a shot. I have been reading posts on iboats where folks have recommended using deisel inside the cylinders to lube and free them. Do you think the fogging fluid would penetrate better?
 
A breaker bar on the lower pulley bolt will work the best. Try and turn that baby. If you can't, then check for water in the cylinders by pulling the spark plugs and turning it over...... A bad battery connection can do thtis also.....
 
Any thoughts on how exactly I get to that lower pulley? It is buried beneath other pulleys and the motor mount frame. I may go over at lunch and spray some oil down in those clyinders.

I have read to use everything from fogging fluid, to deisel, to marvel mystery oil, to to olive oil. I already have fogging fluid so I may go with that for now.
 
Just about any oil will work. You are just trying to break free what has stuck. I prefer PB blaster. It's like WD40 but better at penetrating.
As was said before the best way to free it up is to put a socket with 1/2 inch breaker bar on the crank pulley bolt.
I don't know you boat-engine setup but if you can see the pulley then you CAN get a socket on the bolt. Pulling on the belts is not going to do much if it is truly seized.

Jack
 
So the bolt you are talking about is the bolt that runs down the center-line of the pulley to attach it to the crankshaft? I will take a look. it is pretty damn compact.

I am gonna oil it tonight and give it hell tomorrow.

Thanks for the help.
 
That's the one.
If in fact the engine is not locked up you should be able to get a little movement with the belts. If pulling on the belts (and I mean really pulling ) doesn't give any movement go to the bolt on the crankshaft.
Good luck.

Jack
 
Does the start click once when you turn the key? Does it sound like the benidix is hitting the fly wheel? I had the same problem...the long bolt on my start broke off started pretty much feel in half, put a new starter on still clicked a single time when i would hit the key, i then put in a 1/32" shim from autozone, still got a click but it would catch every once in a while, finally i replaced the slave solenoid and presto!
 
Re: Starter, Solenoid, or Seized Motor? Update - turns over but wont start still

Wierd. I wish I could find out what that slave solenoid actually does.

UPDATE:
I hooked up a jumper cable directly from battery to startery terminals. The engine jumped but just a hair. Then i did it a few more times and it broke free. Now it will turn over, but it wont start. It sounds like it really wants too but no love. I even tried some starter fluid and no luck. I checked the ingnition coil and it will shoot a .25 inch arc across a screwdriver to ground. Checked each cable and it sends a hot spark to each plug. It just sounds like it wont fire. I even hotwired the cockpit kill switch to see if that would do anything. Nothing. I pressed the circuit breaker and nothing. Although, it really seemed like it did not do anything when I pressed it but that may be because it was not tripped.

I removed the plugs that I just replaced last year. One looked pretty clean. Two had light rust on them. One looked like someone took a dump on it. Well, not that bad, but it had some rusty funk on it it. But not bad enough that it should not fire. Is there a way that plugs can go bad over winter storage? I am almost positive that this is a lack of spark issue, I just cant understand how.
 
It sounds like you may have gotten water on top of the piston with the fouled plug. The water evaporated out of the cylinder while in storage and rusted the piston rings to the cylinder. May have an exhausted manifold leaking water back in or a head gasket bad. Just one of a few thing it could be. Since you were able to turn it over after oiling it, it should not be a crank main or connecting rod bearing issue. Once these seize you are done and a 10 foot breaker bar won't turn it.
Just my humble opinion.
 
I agree with OldSkool on the water issue. If it won't fire on ether, you have a spark problem, you may want to try some new plugs and see what happens, they're cheap. A compression test wouldn't hurt either.
 
Thanks. I am gonna try the plugs and see. Sounds like I am gonna need to do some major work on this bad boy in the near future even if I do get it running.
 
The slave solenoid's function is pretty simple. It makes the connection complete on the positive cable between your battery and your starter when you turn the ignition key and it does this without having to run your heavy gauge battery cable all the way from the battery to the ignition switch and then back to the starter.
 
No luck with the plugs. It just wont fire. It almost fires, and I mean almost but it wont sustain. So now I dont know what it could be.

I suppose it could be bad fuel. But my jet ski has older fuel than that and it fires right off. But even with old fuel, the starte fluid should make it fire.

Or it could be a weak spark. Maybe. That seems like a stretch though. But the battery runs directly to the starter and all the rest of teh electrical system also ties in there. Maybe I need to check those connections.

Or maybe the coil, or distribur is not sending a hot enough spark. I guess I could get a spark tester and check.

Then my last option, that I am most afraid of, is no compression to maintain combustion. But how could I lose compression in that many cylinders? Seems like even if two cylinders were good it would keep going. I can borrow a compression tester so I may try it out next week. But I would say that their is a high likelihood of this if I am getting moisture in. But I doubt it is a catastrophic loss of pressure. It does not smoke or burn oil. And the oil is not contaminated that I can tell.

Fuel, air, spark, compression. Augugughghhhh.
 
Thanks for the slave solenoid explanation. It is nothing more than a relay.
 
Yup - a relay.

Is there any way that your distributor got loose and has moved enough to get your timing out of the operating range?
 
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