Sometimes, Credit Cards are good things. . .

[comsnark]

If anyone every reads my posts, you will know that I am not a big fan of my Dealer's service department. I have not done any buisness with this outfit since August 2006.

So imagine my surprise in early January when I look at my credit card statement and see a $500 charge on my card from my favorite Sea Ray dealer.

So I called my favorite Sea Ray dealer and (very politely) leave a "WTF!" voicemail. I got a very polite voicemail back from the GM of the dealer saying "No Mr. Snark, we did not bill you -> Unfortunately, we can't issue a credit on your card because we never charged it in the first place; we suggest you talk to your credit card company." Alrighty then. They didn't bill me. . .but the charge is very much on the card. Even though I have LOTS of transactions on a $5000 CC bill, a $500 charge does indeed get notice.

So. . . here I go with the Credit Card company. Turns out that to initiate the dispute was two clicks on their web page (1st to identify the specific charge, 2nd to select "No services received"). A credit appears on my account three days later.

Fast forward one month. Today, I get a call from the "Credit Card Dispute Resolution Department". Seems like my Favorite SeaRay dealer wants to reinstate the charge, and stated some (random and way overpriced) component was replaced.

"Fancy that", I say to the Credit Card person.
"Indeed. I shall now transfer you to the fraud department" comes the reply, and before I can blink I am on hold. While on hold for a minute or so, I am just saying to myself "WTF!!".


New person comes on the line and says "I understand you had an improper charge on your card".
"Yes I do" I reply.
"OK, we will now cancel this card number. How soon do you need a new card? We can overnight the new card to you."

Huh what? I charge bubble gum on that card! Lunch! Gas! Groceries! I have Surgery later this week! Crap!

"Did you say overnight?"
"Yes sir, we will have the replacement card to you tomorrow. Have a nice day."

- - - - - - - -

Fancy that!
Seems like the CC company is positively viewing my claim.
If this company wasn't hip deep in the Mortgage Finance mess, I would buy some of their stock! (I may still do so, if they sink another 25%. . .)

- - - - - - - -

So: What do I do now?

1) Let this pass, use the new card and never call the dealer for anything again?
2) Once I get the card, write the dealer a letter stating everything I know? Preserve the relationship? (The boat is LONG out of warrenty)

Can I expect them to attempt to mail me a bill? I suspect the CC company was in contact with a random person in "Accounting" and got a pretty much automatic response. Should I try and proactively head off something, or just ignore this whole thing?

At the present time, I am not out any money. They don't have the boat (If they think about it, they do know where the boat is physically located. . .on a property with minimal security). Should I do anything, or would any contact just provoke a mess?

 

[H2ONUT]

Sounds to me like an employee of that dealership was looking for some cash and went looking thru old receipts...

I work for a credit union, I can let a person from our fraud dept read your post and see what they say.

 

[Presentation]

Are you sure you want our advice?

 

[tobnpr]

Depends; part of me would want to physically go to the dealership and set it straight. Then the logical part of my brain would (hopefully) kick in and I'd realize that I've already decided not to do business with them, so why "preserve" a relationship that no longer exists. I'd put my valuable time towards something more productive and let it go.

 

[PlayDate]

comsnark.

What was the component that was replaced? I'm a little concerned about two things....your credit and a maritime lien. If you authorized a repair ....they won't let it drop.

-John

 

[Bridog]

Why would they charge you? How did they get your CC#? Is this a reputable dealer? Are they going to charge you for services from years ago that remained unpaid? Did they forget to bill you for some type of previous service? Why would they go though all these procedures?

 

[comsnark]

Are you sure you want our advice?

Well. . . I figured that someone did this to Gary or TurtleTone somewhere along the line. . .

Oh, and the CC company wants a statement (on a form they will provide) that I in fact did not receive services. . probably helps *them* get off the hook. . .and forces the dealer to approach me directly. If they dare, considering that I didn't even ask the dealer for an estimate for services in the last nine months.

 

[Turtlesboat]

Gary gets tax bills. I forget I ordered something online or my girlfriend bought something stupid like pillows at the dealer cause it was closer than bed bath beyond.

 

[Sundancer]

The new CC number will solve the problem. They won't know who you are when you show up (IF you show up) for service anyway. It's probably happened to a number of other folks that HAVE had repairs performed and I'll bet some of them didn't blink an eye and paid it. The offender MIGHT get caught. It's too bad you can't get some kind of notification if they find and prosecute the guy!

I had a similar experience where someone ordered $150 worth of hamburgers. I called AMEX and they didn't bat an eye and sent me a new card. The only frustration was I caught it the day after it happened and AMEX asked that I wait until I got the statement before filing? Strange, but I got the card when I arrived home a few days later.

 

[Presentation]

Well. . . I figured that someone did this to Gary or TurtleTone somewhere along the line. . .

Oh, and the CC company wants a statement (on a form they will provide) that I in fact did not receive services. . probably helps *them* get off the hook. . .and forces the dealer to approach me directly. If they dare, considering that I didn't even ask the dealer for an estimate for services in the last nine months.

OK, here is how it goes.

You dispute a claim. The CC Company credits your account. You must fill out that form they send you by their deadline. The do not read it. That’s correct, they do not read it. The details are not yet significant.

Your CC Company debits the CC Company that the marina is using. They contact the marina. They can accept the debit or dispute it. If they dispute it your account gets re-billed.

You are given a chance to re-dispute the charge. If you do, this is the first time the CC company reads your claim to determine if it has merit. If they determine it has merit the claim goes to mediation. Mediation is not free for the company that made the initial charge, its not free for your credit card company either.

If both parties wish to continue the claim it goes to mediation and a decision is made.

 

[comsnark]

Just to be clear. . . .

. . . The dealer has my CC numbers from services performed in the Summer of 2006. All previous work was paid via this credit card. No muss, no fuss. (well. . I wasn't happy with the work, but the bill was paid. I just stopped calling the dealer for future work).

.. . . I have neither requested nor received services in Calender Year 2007. I have not received any corrospondence from the dealer in Calender Year 2007, except for a faxed estimate for some work in the early spring (which was declined). The CC person said something about "battery", but that part of the conversation stopped as soon as I muttered "But they didn't *do* anything". But basically, the facts are very clear cut; They say they performed services. I say they did not. One would think they have to prove they actually did something at this point. I have receipts showing that someone else has been servicing the boat

I guess we must be in the "second step" of dispute, where the Dealer says the charge is legit. HOWEVER, the CC company did NOT imply that they were rebilling the card, since they appear to be cancelling it based upon this being a "fraudulent charge". In fact, I can no longer view that card online. (hmmm). Of course, I suppose that I will see a bill next month for residual charges (probably a few thousand month to date)

Once I get the new card tomorrow, should I
*give the dealer a call?
*Write a certified letter?
*Ignore the matter (but send in the CC form that I expect to get) and await developments?

Frank: A lien could be annoying, but I personally don't give a hoot about my credit; I have more credit cards than I need, and my next car will be paid by check. I already have a boat

Just to complicate matters: My boat is in the same state as the dealer, but I live in a different state. My billing address and all corrospondence go to where I live (and I know they have that address!).

 

[Presentation]

If I understand your prior post correctly, you have not yet completed your CC companies paperwork. So you are at step #1.

The CC company will forward a copy of this to CC company #2 and they will forward it to the marina. Then they are given the chance to accept or reject the debit. If they reject the debit they must fill out a form similar to the one you filled out. This will be your opportunity to see their documentation to back up their claim of credit owned.

Again – on what I will call round one, the CC Company does not read your claim. Ditto on the CC Company not reading the marinas counter claim if they choose to submit one.

Why is this so important that I keep stressing it? Here is why.

If the marina does a counter claim you will be given their story, a copy of what their paperwork is, basically a similar form to what you sent to your CC Company and you WILL be re-billed.

MOST clams are dropped by this point.

Why?

Well, most consumers assume that since they were re-billed and have a copy of the original debit rejection that if everything in the other side is factual someone must have decided that they win.

This is not true. Neither CC company has even read either claim yet.

My point is to stand strong unless you discover you were wrong and forgot something or this is somehow a correct claim.

 

[Still LauCo]

Care about your credit regardless of your cash position...Insurance companies and employers check credit too! Good luck with the dispute, and sounds like running from the dealer is the right move!

 

[comsnark]

Yeah. . .really. I have less and less regrets regarding abandoning the dealer. I KNOW for a FACT that they did not perform any work. Unless they showed up randomly to do something with out prior (or subsequent) discussion.

I guess I was overly optimistic when the CC credited my card a month ago. I suppose the "rebilling" is going to show up in my hands shortly, since the CC company implied that they have some paperwork in hand from my favorite SeaRay dealer. I never submitted any "supporting documentation" after I disputed the charge because (a) They didn't send may any forms and (b) I have no supporting documents (no documents because they didn't do anything)

So direct contact with dealer is probably a bad move at this point.

Hmmm. Insurance. Hmmm. I guess I better move on that, since I was planning on redoing my policies shortly.

I better change my sig, since I suppose it won't be too hard to figure out who I am based on some knowledge they have.

 

[neyc]

Now that you have the dealers attention, why not just call them?
If it was an oversight on your part, and you agree to it, I am sure you could renegotiate the amount due. It is their fault for not providing you with back-up documentation before nailing your card.
If someone from the marina was looking for some money to take the sting out of their holiday bills, they should know about it. If they already know, they should know that it was you. They already lost your business so now they owe you one more. No good GM is going to let you go through all this without trying to make it up to you.
I hate to say it, but you never know if you might need them. The way I see it you are in a no lose position.

 

[fwebster]

What would be wrong with just going over to the dealer and asking the general manager to prove that you authorized the work and that they did it? My bet is you will clear this up in about 30 seconds when you look somebody in the eye and start asking questions.

 

[Turtlesboat]

I bet you got drunk, ordered a good boat washing and a new VHF radio and just forgot about it. It happens.

 

[comsnark]

Nothing wrong with going over to the GM. . . that was actually the question in the original post. I suppose the way to go is to provide them with a copy of the form from the CC company and write a nice letter. . . .

And yes, I did contact the dealer last month (when the charge first appeared) and the GM claimed complete ignorance of providing services. . .or of charging the card. Which is why I let the matter drop after the card was credited three days later. Dropping down there randomly during the week isn't an option. .. the dealer is 120 miles from my house

And no. . .I didn't call them to do a washing. . the boat isn't kept at the dealer. This Charge was made in December. . .four weeks after the boat was put on the hard and winterized by my "normal" mechanic.

 

[Turtlesboat]

Sorry, I meant I got drunk and ordered you a boat washing and new VHF radio.

 

[Sea Gull]

I think you are getting good advice and good service from your credit card company. The charge was either an honest mistake, an old bill, or an employee's attempt at fraud. The chances are you will never hear about it from the dealer again. If they were trying to charge you for something from almost 2 years ago, they will now have to come to you hat in hand. No need to confront the dealer at all.