Sewing with Tenara Thread - Is it Really That Hard?

[ttmott]

The shank is what the bobbin hook passes through to catch the thread and make the knot. It still sounds like the hook is not passing through the shank. Can you visually confirm the timing of the hook? I am also working under the assumption that these needles are the proper type (135x17).

-Kevin

Yes however the area below the shank must pass by the hook so per Sailrite the clearance adjustment is made at that thicker area. Sailrite says minimum clearance; I have zero. The needles are all 135x17.
I've advanced the gibb and retarded it relative to the needle timing and currently have it set at 3/32" at maximum distance which per Sailrite correctly passes just above the needle eye. I found this timing is ultra-critical and believe it is as good as it can get....

 

[ttmott]

Off topic to the problem but what material are you using to replace the bridge panels with? If you are going through all the trouble of setting the tensions here you should probable do it with the material included so the settings transfer.

-Kevin

I agree but trying to get the machine to an operational baseline and that's not going so well. 40 gauge O'Sea vinyl with Sunbrella; once I get the machine to work well I'll run some test samples to fine tune.

 

[ttmott]

The only thing I haven't tried is to lower the needle bar further into the bobbin and try to expose more of that needle shank and possibly a bigger loop to the hook.....

 

[ZZ13]

We had problems on our Juki the first time we used tenara thread. We really had to crank up the tension on the thread by looping it through all four holes on the thread bar above the needle. Worked normal after that.

 

[JHornsby3]

Skipped stitches I found that rotating the needle a little to the right helped. To the left made it worst. And to check the rotary hook for proper alignment. Those skipped stitches looks like rotary hook to me. Maybe just ever so slightly off. It was the same with my commercial embroidery machine as well as my HD standard type machine stitching on heavy fabrics. My small embroidery machine still needs to be tuned up in the worst way so not sure about that one.

 

[ttmott]

Skipped stitches I found that rotating the needle a little to the right helped. To the left made it worst. And to check the rotary hook for proper alignment. Those skipped stitches looks like rotary hook to me. Maybe just ever so slightly off. It was the same with my commercial embroidery machine as well as my HD standard type machine stitching on heavy fabrics. My small embroidery machine still needs to be tuned up in the worst way so not sure about that one.

I tried rotating the needle as you describe; couldn't tell any difference.
So, this afternoon I received the Sailrite PTFE thread which is a "lifetime" thread like Tenara. It feels significantly softer and smoother than the Tenara. I put it on the machine not changing a thing and there is a marked improvement; see the pic. Each pass was an upper tension half a turn ending in the top three and one of the zig zags. A couple of missed stitches in the binding but that is 4 layers plus the binding. I think the DI needle will help there. I may just have to give up on the Tenara......

 

[JHornsby3]

I find that one missed stitch here and there only bugs the crap out of me. And the tread is really the key. I was told only use one type of thread with the embroidery machine. The stuff was spendy and just plain crap. Switched to Issacord and can run at 700 stitches per minute with no problems. And when your stitching up a jacket back with over 100k stitches, time is important. One slipped stitch in 70k stitch field can't be seen by the customer. But I see it like neon at 1 am flying into Vegas.

I have always turned the needles at almost a 45* angle and it just works better. For rotary hook pick up as well as threading the needle when there is a break or color change.

Looks good to me.

 

[KevinC]

I tried rotating the needle as you describe; couldn't tell any difference.
So, this afternoon I received the Sailrite PTFE thread which is a "lifetime" thread like Tenara. It feels significantly softer and smoother than the Tenara. I put it on the machine not changing a thing and there is a marked improvement; see the pic. Each pass was an upper tension half a turn ending in the top three and one of the zig zags. A couple of missed stitches in the binding but that is 4 layers plus the binding. I think the DI needle will help there. I may just have to give up on the Tenara......
View attachment 107543

Looks much improved! The adjustment to the shank angle probably did the job - did you run tenera through it after making that change? Either way glad you go it figured out.

-Kevin

 

[ttmott]

The shank is what the bobbin hook passes through to catch the thread and make the knot. It still sounds like the hook is not passing through the shank. Can you visually confirm the timing of the hook? I am also working under the assumption that these needles are the proper type (135x17).

-Kevin

I took a couple of pics on the needle hook relationship. The needle actually rubs on the hook when it retracts so it can't get any closer.

 

[ttmott]

Looks much improved! The adjustment to the shank angle probably did the job - did you run tenera through it after making that change? Either way glad you go it figured out.

-Kevin

Oh - I tried the shank angle changes a day ago. This is back to shank flat to needle..

 

[ttmott]

I find that one missed stitch here and there only bugs the crap out of me. And the tread is really the key. I was told only use one type of thread with the embroidery machine. The stuff was spendy and just plain crap. Switched to Issacord and can run at 700 stitches per minute with no problems. And when your stitching up a jacket back with over 100k stitches, time is important. One slipped stitch in 70k stitch field can't be seen by the customer. But I see it like neon at 1 am flying into Vegas.

I have always turned the needles at almost a 45* angle and it just works better. For rotary hook pick up as well as threading the needle when there is a break or color change.

Looks good to me.

These are oscillating hook machines which are known (from what I now know) to be challenging with PTFE threads.

 

[kvduff]

I recently finished using an ls-1 machine to sew new seat vinyl. I haven’t tried to sew with Tenara thread but I have read, as stated above, that these machines don’t really like it all that much. Looks like you have an Lsz. Will you need the zigzag stitching for your current project?

 

[ttmott]

I recently finished using an ls-1 machine to sew new seat vinyl. I haven’t tried to sew with Tenara thread but I have read, as stated above, that these machines don’t really like it all that much. Looks like you have an Lsz. Will you need the zigzag stitching for your current project?

No zig zag at all for this project.

 

[kvduff]

No zig zag at all for this project.

Was asking because I noticed in the sample piece you posted there was a zig zag stitch. In my mind I was wondering where in the project it would be needed. But having that option is nice if you your doing some sail work.

 

[ttmott]

Was asking because I noticed in the sample piece you posted there was a zig zag stitch. In my mind I was wondering where in the project it would be needed. But having that option is nice if you your doing some sail work.

Not only that but the needle can be offset to one side or the other and allow straight stitching to really get in tight to welting and zippers which is why I got the LSZ machine.

 

[kvduff]

Not only that but the needle can be offset to one side or the other and allow straight stitching to really get in tight to welting and zippers which is why I got the LSZ machine.

Right on, that’s another consideration. I was thinking zipper foot attachment but having the ability to shift is great.

 

[kvduff]

I’m sewing at the amateur level, but it’s nice to see a thread about it.

 

[ttmott]

I’m sewing at the amateur level, but it’s nice to see a thread about it.

I'm a novice's novice..... It's different and kind of fun but frustrating as all heck getting things to work right.

 

[JHornsby3]

Well when you get good, let us know. I can stitch up stuff that you could stitch into upholstery. Like "Your Name Here" in the seat back.

 

[mquiet]

I have done quite a few panels with the Sailraite thread and it works well. The Tenara is an issue for a lot of people and seems like it might be lost money at this point for you. I run an 18g needle with the O'sea 40mil. No issue with skipped loops.