Searay Sedan 2004 - Inverter installation

dc,

I inquired about it (auto gen start) but never followed through. I know its very popular for the motor coach crowd. Not a bad idea for a long weekend, kicking on occasionally to maintain the charge on the inverter. The main concern I would have is if you lost your impeller.
 
Brett H said:
... Not a bad idea for a long weekend, kicking on occasionally to maintain the charge on the inverter. The main concern I would have is if you lost your impeller.
Click to expand...

Simple answer, a gen would shutdown with a code for low water flow. The same event would occur if you had blockage at the strainer. The bottom line is that IMO, you shouldn't mix the reasons why gen would fail with auto-start feature. If I would be doing the project, I would opt for the auto-start.
 
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I spent about two hours last night snaking wire for the ac side of the inverter. Today need to get 4/0 wire lugs connected and run the cat5. Getting there. I elected to purchase a pair of 6v batteries and do a dedicated bank. Automatic gen start will be soon.
 
Alex,

I get ya. I wasn't thinking of a reason for shutting down as much as losing an impeller during auto start. Either way the GEN should fail safely. I assume that it would have an interlock that wouldn't allow it to keep trying to crank. Hmmm. I over think everything....just need to work through it. I like the idea of AGS.

For RV's & motor coaches, the gen comes on to maintain charge for the inverter batteries but also to maintain a reasonable temp in the coach. We only "need" for maintaining the inverter batteries. Although might "want" to maintain cabin temp on one of those hot Georgia nights.

My other concern was that breakers for most everything (AC load) would be left on, all the time. Then the GEN would basically crank and the full load would be applied (by some delay relay is my guess). I was always told to start the GEN then turn breakers on a few at a time.....turn breakers off then kill the gen.

I realize that backup generators instantaneously have load applied within a second or so of cranking. Just not sure our systems are designed for such loading. I talked to Cummins at the Lauderdale boat show last year and the guys I talked to weren't able to give an answer as to what % load could be applied at once.
 
DC,

I feel for you on running the wires. We got all cut up from fiberglass and sharp edges on wire ties.

What's the advantage of 2 x 6V batteries versus two 12V batteries wired for 12V?

On a river with currents, you probably use your thruster a whole lot more than I do so I can understand the dedicated bank choice.
 
Brett H said:
Alex,

I get ya. I wasn't thinking of a reason for shutting down as much as losing an impeller during auto start. Either way the GEN should fail safely. I assume that it would have an interlock that wouldn't allow it to keep trying to crank. Hmmm. ....
Click to expand...

Very good point at the AGS making a constant attempt to fire up the genset in the event if it's prevented by some sort of a fault code. I would talk to the tech support to find if the AGS has the intelligence built-in to prevent cranking faulty genset.


Brett H said:
....My other concern was that breakers for most everything (AC load) would be left on, all the time. Then the GEN would basically crank and the full load would be applied (by some delay relay is my guess). I was always told to start the GEN then turn breakers on a few at a time.....turn breakers off then kill the gen.

I realize that backup generators instantaneously have load applied within a second or so of cranking. Just not sure our systems are designed for such loading. I talked to Cummins at the Lauderdale boat show last year and the guys I talked to weren't able to give an answer as to what % load could be applied at once.
Click to expand...

IMO, it's an easy one to control. The biggest "power users" are A/C units. If you turn them off at the thermostat level, then you can leave the breakers alone. The minute genny will fire up, I can see that battery chargers (all 3, if you have bow thruster), HWH will be the biggest "power users" at the time. At very high level, IMO, we're looking at 30AMPs total load at the most, but realistically I think it'll be around 20AMPs. You know your boat and can test it next time you're on it.

Now if my theory is correct, then the question is, will the instant load of 20AMPS (+/-) load harm the genny? I doubt it, but I'd suggest to consult the genny maker and/or certified techs. IMO, your genny will never be too cold. If you're on a trip, most likely you'll be running the gen at least twice a day (in am and evening). IF the inverter will fire it up anytime during the day, your genny will be warm enough for "getting to work" right from the start.
 
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Brett H said:
DC,

I feel for you on running the wires. We got all cut up from fiberglass and sharp edges on wire ties.

What's the advantage of 2 x 6V batteries versus two 12V batteries wired for 12V?


On a river with currents, you probably use your thruster a whole lot more than I do so I can understand the dedicated bank choice.
Click to expand...

When i started researching, my thurster batteries are meant to put out high amps for a short period of time, the inverter bank is more of a prolonged draw. Different battery types. Golf Cart 6V batteries, have thicker plates and meant to be drained down like a deep cycle, but have a larger amp hours.... Mine have 230AH each. Hope this helps..
 
Alex F said:
Very good point at the AGS making a constant attempt to fire up the genset in the event if it's prevented by some sort of a fault code. I would talk to the tech support to find if the AGS has the intelligence built-in to prevent cranking faulty genset.




IMO, it's an easy one to control. The biggest "power users" are A/C units. If you turn them off at the thermostat level, then you can leave the breakers alone. The minute genny will fire up, I can see that battery chargers (all 3), HWH will be the biggest "power users" at the time. At very high level, IMO, we're looking at 30AMPs total load at the most, but realistically I think it'll be around 20AMPs. You know your boat and can test it next time you're on it.

Now if my theory is correct, then the question is, will the instant load of 20AMPS (+/-) load harm the genny? I doubt it, but I'd suggest to consult the genny maker and/or certified techs. IMO, your genny will never be too cold. If you're on a trip, most likely you'll be running the gen at least twice a day (in am and evening). IF the inverter will fire it up anytime during the day, your genny will be warm enough for "getting to work" right from the start.
Click to expand...

So the AGS that I installed has places that you can plug in other sensors etc. It also can do a cool down period etc. You can do quiet periods, exercise period etc...

The external shutdown input is a 12-volt/24-volt input used to assure that
the AGS keeps the generator off under conditions that may be potentially
hazardous. Wire 5 (white/black) and 6 (gray) on the wiring harness are
intended for an external switch or sensor (such as a moisture detector, or
carbon monoxide detector) that produces an active high 12-volt or 24-volt

Relay Function Preset Configuration Setting
Relay 1 mode RunStop
Relay 3 mode Not used
Gen Run signal hold time 0 s
Preheat time 0 s
Preheat to crank delay 0 s
Crank time 0 s
Crank retry time 0 s
Gen Cool Down 30 s
Gen Spin Down 600 s
Shutdown bypass time 0 s
Start tries 1
 
dcpringle said:
When i started researching, my thurster batteries are meant to put out high amps for a short period of time, the inverter bank is more of a prolonged draw. Different battery types. Golf Cart 6V batteries, have thicker plates and meant to be drained down like a deep cycle, but have a larger amp hours.... Mine have 230AH each. Hope this helps..
Click to expand...

Ok. Yours is probably the ideal solution. I went with 2 x 12V (wired for 24V) West Marine Dual Purpose 8D AGM's at 245AH. For my situation, it works.
 
dcpringle said:
So the AGS that I installed has places that you can plug in other sensors etc. It also can do a cool down period etc. You can do quiet periods, exercise period etc...

The external shutdown input is a 12-volt/24-volt input used to assure that
the AGS keeps the generator off under conditions that may be potentially
hazardous. Wire 5 (white/black) and 6 (gray) on the wiring harness are
intended for an external switch or sensor (such as a moisture detector, or
carbon monoxide detector) that produces an active high 12-volt or 24-volt

Relay Function Preset Configuration Setting
Relay 1 mode RunStop
Relay 3 mode Not used
Gen Run signal hold time 0 s
Preheat time 0 s
Preheat to crank delay 0 s
Crank time 0 s
Crank retry time 0 s
Gen Cool Down 30 s
Gen Spin Down 600 s
Shutdown bypass time 0 s
Start tries 1
Click to expand...

Great input. Thank you.
 
dcpringle said:
So the AGS that I installed has places that you can plug in other sensors etc. It also can do a cool down period etc. You can do quiet periods, exercise period etc...

The external shutdown input is a 12-volt/24-volt input used to assure that
the AGS keeps the generator off under conditions that may be potentially
hazardous. Wire 5 (white/black) and 6 (gray) on the wiring harness are
intended for an external switch or sensor (such as a moisture detector, or
carbon monoxide detector) that produces an active high 12-volt or 24-volt

Relay Function Preset Configuration Setting
Relay 1 mode RunStop
Relay 3 mode Not used
Gen Run signal hold time 0 s
Preheat time 0 s
Preheat to crank delay 0 s
Crank time 0 s
Crank retry time 0 s
Gen Cool Down 30 s
Gen Spin Down 600 s
Shutdown bypass time 0 s
Start tries 1
Click to expand...

Good to know. That covers every concern that I came up with and then some.
 
Inverter is up and running, tomorrow i'll hopefully add the AGS if there is time. Then i'll try it out this weekend. We are planning to head to Watch Hill RI Friday morning. We are going to anchor out in Napatree..
 
Finally figured out the auto generator start. Makes it awesome. Fires up the generator for either low batteries on the inverter or load being called for. Well worth it.

Sent from my TouchPad using Tapatalk
 
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