Searay Sedan 2004 - Inverter installation

[marinemods]

I want to setup a set of house batteries and a Magnum or Xantrex 3000W inverter.

I would like to use 4 8D batteries but have no clue where to put them and the inverter.

I was going to replace the Bow thruster bats with some Odysee 2250 that are half the size of the 8D's that are there now.

and also replace the current starting/house bats with the same.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Please attach pics

 

[dcpringle]

Im thinking of adding the Xantrex 3000 this year too, so i'm interested if anyone chimes in..

 

[Yzfspike]

Up here in the north, we stay on the hook often. When your in a secluded bay with nothing but nature and the closest civilization is miles away, things get pretty quite. Running the genny just to keep the fridge cold and have the odd cup of coffee can be annoying. Most of the larger sedans up around the Georgian Bay area have inverters installed likely for the fact of the sub zero refrigerators.

I have four Trojan T-125 6v in series connected to a 4000W Trace inverter. Trace is a Xantrex product but I don't believe they are available any more. I have the batteries in line down the center of the lazarret area just behind the cockpit hatch opening. The inverter is on the stb side just ahead of the water pumps. This set up allows approximately 4-5 days of power for the fridge and general 120V use. All systems other than the water heater, washer/dryer and A/C units are connected to this inverter. This 4-5 day time frame allows for kids playing the idiot box (PS3) pretty much all day, a couple of coffee's a day, and if not making something on the grill, the odd microwave dinner. I have never really calculated my true amp hour usage as always have had enough from this set up.

I do keep an eye on the voltage of the batteries through a remote panel mounted on stb side cabinet below the salon tv. This unit has many options. The automatic switching is impressive. You can switch between inverter and shore power or generator power without electronics turning off (important if your on a high score on the PS3). The built in charger works well as I check fluids regularly, and I am still on the same batteries for 8 years now. It does have some fancy things like an option to remotely start the generator if voltages of the batteries gets too low. Neat feature, but would not want my generator starting unless I was present so I do not utilize this. I think most high end units would have intelligent charging capability and monitoring of voltages.

Sorry, no photo's and unfortunately, she's stored inside a building to the season at the moment.

Using 8D batteries uses quite a bit of floor space. Using more of the vertical space under the lazarret will give you more amp hours with less floor space taken up. I think 3000W would be acceptable as I cannot see anything in the boat taking huge loads. Starting of the microwave would likely be the highest peak you would see. The remote panel is a nice feature to keep on eye on battery status and I would suggest if going through the pain of installation, this should be considered as well.

Will try to find some photos to post.

 

[Yzfspike]

Found a pic to give you an idea.

 

[Converse48]

Yzfspike-
How did you handle the introduction of the power from the inverter to the AC panel on the boat? This always seems to be the rub...

 

[marinemods]

Ive done plenty of reading and I am familiar with Trace now Xantrex. Side note: the engineers from Trace now are at Magnum. Unfortunately since the 240 supply from shore power via a 110-220 Single phase transformer I can not run any of the 240AC appliances without adding a second inverter. So the way I see it is it worth all the work to not have the genny on or do I simply power only the 110V devices.

Also - if I abandon the idea of the inverter, then I want my cranking batteries STRICTLY for cranking and maybe install 1 8D Deep Cycle for the house. I look at the schematics and it seems the main DC bus comes from the device labeled converter. Any idea were this is located on the boat?

I would like to isolate this battery from cranking.

BTW Nice work on your install...

 

[Sea Gull]

I only needed to run refrigerators and freezers for about 10-12 hours. No lights, no tv, no microwave. I just wanted to have a quiet night on the hook, be able to leave the boat for a day at the beach or swim around the boat with the genset off.

My my answer was to use the bow thruster battery bank as the source for inverter power. Works like a charm. BTW, it's 2 x 8D in a 24volt configuration.

 

[Yzfspike]

Seagull - Great solution for the refrigerators and relatively easy set up!

MM - Since I did not do the install (cant take credit for it!), I am not familiar with the exact wiring schematics of my set up. I believe the inverter supplies 120V power to the main 120V buss bar. The switching is handled by the inverters internal transfer switch seemlessly. If I am on shore power, inverter transfers the shore power thru to the buss bar. Once shore power is unplugged, inverter immediately transfers to battery power. This is also true for switching to / from generator. So, at all times I leave the inverter in the "on" position so that it will sense where to supply power from. If the inverter is "off", this turns the transfer switch é inverting functions off and only acts as a battery charger. All systems on the 120V side do not receive power with the exception of the bow thruster charger and the converter (they are wired separate from the inverter system). I leave it in the on position throughout the season. If there is a power failure, the transfer switch will keep the refrigerator running.

Only in layup is when I switch the inverter to off.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[dcpringle]

Yzfspike,

Thanks for sharing.. Your setup is exactly what i've been thinking about. With the 3000 it appears that it has dual in/dual out which i believe would make possible to wire each of the 120v on their own leg i believe..

thanks again

 

[marinemods]

Yzfspike,

Thanks for sharing.. Your setup is exactly what i've been thinking about. With the 3000 it appears that it has dual in/dual out which i believe would make possible to wire each of the 120v on their own leg i believe..

thanks again

No I do not think so. I believe you will need 2x 3000W Xantrex in order to run 240 see below from the manual:

Allows two inverters to be configured to produce 120 and 240 volts AC, also known as, a single-phase three-wire configuration. Freedom SW models with the same DC voltage rating can also be assembled in a system. for example, a Freedom SW 3012 can be installed on L1 while a Freedom SW 2012 operates on L2. However, it is important to remember that for Freedom SW inverter/chargers that support dual line AC configuration (DIDO), only AC INPUT L1 terminal should be used and that the AC INPUT L2 terminal must have no connections at all. If L2 is connected to any incoming or outgoing AC line, the inverter/charger may suffer internal damage not covered by warranty.

:smt021

 

[marinemods]

No I do not think so. I believe you will need 2x 3000W Xantrex in order to run 240 see below from the manual:

Allows two inverters to be configured to produce 120 and 240 volts AC, also known as, a single-phase three-wire configuration. Freedom SW models with the same DC voltage rating can also be assembled in a system. for example, a Freedom SW 3012 can be installed on L1 while a Freedom SW 2012 operates on L2. However, it is important to remember that for Freedom SW inverter/chargers that support dual line AC configuration (DIDO), only AC INPUT L1 terminal should be used and that the AC INPUT L2 terminal must have no connections at all. If L2 is connected to any incoming or outgoing AC line, the inverter/charger may suffer internal damage not covered by warranty.

:smt021

Just confirmed with Xantrex that two inverters would be needed in order to power single phase 240 - It is not recommended in marine applications because of battery drain is too much and would not be efficient. Time for PLAN B.

 

[dcpringle]

Yeah i dont think we need 240v while on inverter... My thought is to use it to run all of the 120 stuff rather than the 240 items... I like the generator start function as well..

 

[ttmott]

Maybe this will help -. Description and photos of the instaaltion on my boat. Seems this type of integration is what you might be trying to do. http://clubsearay.com/showthread.php/57903-Inverter-installation-help-please
Regarding the use of two inverters to obtain 240 VAC, it seems there would be no possible way to sync two of them to ensure the 60 hertz phasing is constantly 180 degrees out of phase; that is how 240 is made from two 120's.

 

[Alex F]

Yeah i dont think we need 240v while on inverter... My thought is to use it to run all of the 120 stuff rather than the 240 items...

I was thinking the same thing. I was always under the impression that people who go with large inverter route were focused mostly on the 110VAC side fridges. This way they can use the inverter while moored/anchored and/or underway when ACs aren't needed. If I had 240VAC boat, it would be my approach as well. I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle and the investment to rig inverter to 240v. I haven't done any research on this, but it sounds like 2K-3K 110VAC inverter is a simple approach.

I also would be looking in to exactly what Jeff did. Using bow thruster bank makes perfect sense. It's just requires some tweaking b/c BT (at least majority of those that I've seen) are 24VDC. But, I'm sure it's not a big deal to make it work.

 

[CougarCruiser]

The way Sea Ray wired the 2004+ Sedan Bridges is a giant pain in the ass. I just spent alot of time (and money) going through the electrical system. I have a fair bit of electrical experience, I also hired a well regarded marine electrician with a ton of experience and knowledge. I installed a Magnum 2800W inverter charger as well as re configuring the battery banks.

I will be posting a lengthy update on my ongoing updates thread (search for Fair Game). I just haven't gotten great pictures yet.

Sea Ray basically has a completely isolated bow thruster bank. It only charges via shore power or generator (AC). Leave it alone. Then, you have 2 sets of 2 group 31's that power a port system, and a starboard system. The pair on port are essentially your entire house bank (they feed main 12v panel in the cabin). The starboard pair feeds the 12v panel in the lazarette that manages your core systems. There is an emergency parallel between the 2 if one side runs dead. The generator, I recall, can be started from either side as well (not sure about that). All the solenoids and non standard wiring make it tremendously hard to isolate systems and ensure redundancy with the solenoids that Sea Ray used. I gave up on it the idea.

I kept the port bank wired for the house batteries. I expanded the port bank to 4 group 31's and room to add a 5th. This is plenty to run overnight for fridges, tv's, etc. The problem you will run into with 8Ds is space. L16's looked interesting, but again - space. I have seen a setup on our boats with a bunch of 8d's, and you can't get to the transom area behind the genny without taking out hundreds of pounds of batteries. It is a horrible idea if you have to do a repair or maintenance (like get to the genny racor).

The starboard bank is wired as it was with a pair of group 31 cranking batteries. This powers most all of the core electronics fused in the lazarette, as well as starting the starboard motor.

The port engine alternator charges port house bank. The starboard alternator charges the starboard bank. I have a 500amp combiner from the house bank to starboard in case there is an alternator failure. The emergency parallel is also fully functional still.

I added a designated group 31 starting battery to isolate the generator. It charges off a 125amp ACR from the house bank. It also charges when the generator is running. This pretty much guarantees that the Magnum can always get AC for charging duties.

The bow thruster batteries continue to be completely isolated. I moved them up on the shelf behind the starboard motor exhaust by the shore power transformers. that bulkhead by the transformers is also where I installed the inverter. It fits tight, but it's the best use of space.

Don't try to light up the entire 12v side of the panel with the inverter. Do it right, and run up to a bus bar (there is room behind the panel). Pick the circuits to power up. Example - don't try and run your water heater or AC - it just won't work well for you.

I know have a 5 battery house bank of group 31's. This is plenty of juice for an extended period of time. I have a 2 battery bank for starboard motors and the ship's systems (but these will suck off the house through a combiner if they run down too low). I have a dedicated generator battery so I am always guaranteed a way to get the chargers going. I have a completely isolated bow thruster bank that charges only off AC because it's 24v. NOTHING else on this boat is 24v.

The Magnum inverter has a single charge bank -- which is used to charge the house batteries. Combiners spread the love to the starboard bank and generator battery. The factory charger is still installed, but turned off as another means of charging should the Magnum fail.

Put the Magnum control head in the entertainment center cubby (by the radio). Nice, clean install.

 

[Brett H]

I have the Xantrex SW3024 (3000W/120V/24V). Used the bowthruster batteries (2x 8D's AGM's from West Marine). Run three fridges (two small & one large), an icemaker plus all 120V outlets. Friggin love it. It lasts all night. A friend of mine did most of the install (i was slave labor).

Regarding the two inputs, it needs two plus two outputs (15 amp each). We had to balance the load as Input 1 also handles charging at the same time. I limited my charging rate to 50amps. If too much load is pulled on the same circuit then the amps available to charge the batteries is reduced.

 

[dcpringle]

How long have you been using the thruster batteries and have you had any issues upon returning to the dock using the thruster? I was also considering to use the thruster batteries but wondered whether I should or not.. I have a pair of 8D interstate batteries for the thruster.

 

[Brett H]

How long have you been using the thruster batteries and have you had any issues upon returning to the dock using the thruster? I was also considering to use the thruster batteries but wondered whether I should or not.. I have a pair of 8D interstate batteries for the thruster.

The system was installed last spring, complete with new AGM's. Used pretty much every weekend since with no problem. We do year round lake boating here. Out 5-10 miles, hang for the weekend then return. Not too much need for heavy bow thruster use (no current just occasional wind and convenience use). Regardless, there is a lot of power in 2x8D's. Just a few 1-2 second bursts for docking and a few 2-3 second burst when leaving a side tie... no problem. We commonly stay out all weekend and typically know about when we are going to leave. If there was any concern regarding battery level, I figured that I could (or would for cooking) always start the generator sometime 2-4 hours prior. My inverter is set to charge at 50 amps (24V) so within an hour the bulk charge has delivered more juice to the batteries that I have ever needed regarding thruster consumption.

Maybe you could try (w/ generator off) checking the voltage on your thruster batteries, go out and use the crap out of your thruster, then recheck battery voltage level.

FWIW. All AC units, stove and water heater are 240V on my boat so none of these items are sucking power from the inverter.

 

[dcpringle]

The system was installed last spring, complete with new AGM's. Used pretty much every weekend since with no problem. We do year round lake boating here. Out 5-10 miles, hang for the weekend then return. Not too much need for heavy bow thruster use (no current just occasional wind and convenience use). Regardless, there is a lot of power in 2x8D's. Just a few 1-2 second bursts for docking and a few 2-3 second burst when leaving a side tie... no problem. We commonly stay out all weekend and typically know about when we are going to leave. If there was any concern regarding battery level, I figured that I could (or would for cooking) always start the generator sometime 2-4 hours prior. My inverter is set to charge at 50 amps (24V) so within an hour the bulk charge has delivered more juice to the batteries that I have ever needed regarding thruster consumption.

Maybe you could try (w/ generator off) checking the voltage on your thruster batteries, go out and use the crap out of your thruster, then recheck battery voltage level.

FWIW. All AC units, stove and water heater are 240V on my boat so none of these items are sucking power from the inverter.

Thanks for the reply Brett, your boat sounds like it's wired just like ours. Our Stove, AC, Hot Water Tank etc are all 220. Really looking to wire up the Refrigerators, Ice maker, TVs etc. If we are going to cook, i think i would use the generator anyway. Looking to be able to disconnect, run out to our cove and then come back to the dock later and still have power for the bow thruster if needed.. We have a side tie, and current etc to contend with...

 

[dcpringle]

Do you guys have the AGS(auto Gen Start), if so anyone know what "type #" the westerbeke 12.5 BTDA is? Trying to plan stuff out to be ready for the install... My Xantrex Freedom 3k, AGS, and SCP are en route.