Sea Ray Sedan bridge models, Diesel owners?

[Pseudomind]

ONE, :smt021 don’t beat me up for my question (?)

My main question is simple, are some of the larger 48 foot and above Sea Ray Sedan Bridge models under-powered, diesel that is?

I am guessing from about 1999 models to current. I was talking with my slip neighbor who had just returned from a trip with a friend who has a Sea Ray 5-Sixty hardtop sedan bridge (I am guessing a 02, 03 model; I believe he said, “610 horsepower.” Any way the owner of the 5-Sixty stated the boat needs at least at a minimum a Mann 800 horsepower diesel, and that even the 48 foot models need larger motors, as most are he felt under-powered for their size.

I mentioned to him I had found what appeared or sounded like to be a deal for 1999, 48 Sedan Bridge for $250,000.00, was re-powered in 2001, (I am thinking it was a warranty re-power job) includes a 11 foot Novurania center console dinghy, with Honda motor, TNT lift, Flat panel TV’s, etc. I am fully aware of the requirement for surveys and a factory engine rep check

I am more concerned about whether boats to some degree are under powered or at least with what engine configurations one should look for, as I have no idea what they even come with or which is offered.

48 foot minimum hp
Is/are there any sizes between 48 and 56? Minimum hp
56 foot minimum hp
58 foot minimum hp

Thanks


:thumbsup:

 

[Four Suns]

I've never felt my boat was underpowered... It cruises a lot faster than my 380 DA did (and cheaper as well).

The 480 DB had either Detroit Diesel engines or Cat engines (3196 I believe) from 1999 through 2002. There were some issues with the aftercoolers or something with the Cat engines which is probably why the engines were redone in the boat you are looking at. In 2003 and onward, the engine options were Cummins QSM-11 or MAN diesels (don't know the model numbers). The engines are all basically around 650 HP EACH (total of ~1300 HP). The 2003 QSM-11's are 635HP and the 2004 are 660HP... no difference other than software driving the fuel management. The MAN diesels offer a little more HP and torque at the low end but I'm not too familiar with them.

My boat with QSM-11's has a cruise of 2100 RPM which delivers over 26 knots (30-31mph). If the boat is really loaded down with full fuel and a jet ski and out on the ocean with moderate swells, it runs around 23-24 knots.... WOT is around 30-32 knots.

You'll want to make sure you check the hull and around all the port lights and such on 2002 and earlier models as they had some water intrusion/core issues. Also, the earlier models had underpowered AC for the salon...

As far as models, there are basically two flavors of sedan bridges from 1999 onward. The 480 DB and the 560 DB were 2004 and earlier (the 560 may have went until 2005... don't remember). The boats were updated and the 480 became the 50 Sedan Bridge in 2005 and the 52 Sedan Bridge in 2006 and later. The 560 was updated and became the 58 DB... They are basically the same hull though... My 480 DB is 52' LOA with the standard swim platform and 53' LOA with the larger lift platform....

 

[bluebelly]

It is my opinion that those boats are underpowered. Looking at the competition and what engines they install in their boats raises questions about the Sea Rays. I would say that they are in need of about 900 horsepower. I do not believe that Sea Ray builds their boats for offshore use nor do their owners use them that way. So for 99% of the owners I think that they are powered adequately. Also, larger horsepower requires heavier fiberglass schedules and stringer schedules which also adds weight and cost and also can restrict style and design liberty.

 

[earthmover17]

It depends on what you want to do with the boat. I have 3196's rated at 660 HSP each. I cruise realistically at 20 KNTs and top out at 26 to 27. I burn 40 gallons per hour and find that is very economical for a boat my size. Most of the 560's in my vintage were buit with 3406 cats. I believe they were rated at 800 plus HSP and would cruise at 24 plus but the fuel burn was considerably more.
As for a boat being underpowered, as long as it gets up on plane and doesn't stuggle to maintain cruise speed I don't think it's an issue.
It all depends on how fast you want to go.
It's also been my experiance you can have all the horsepower in the world but you are only gonna go as fast as the seas will let you.

Jack

 

[brimanst]

I have a 98 480DB with the CAT 3196's. They have been a great motor. The boat cruises ~24kts at 2000 RPM which is usually right at 80% load. I am usually about 40gph at that speed. But if you need to be somewhere, this boat tops out at 30+knots and can easily do a "fast Cruise" at 27knots. Keep in mind that you will not be running with most of the sport fishers out there as they tend to put 800HP or more in a 48' boat as well as 1000 gal tanks to support their mission, but I regular to long distance cruising and it does just fine. At displacement speeds I get about 2nmpg.
I would not consider my SR as a "blue water boat" but if you pick your windows it will get you there.

The earlier 480's had a GM option which in my opinion is underpowered for this boat and only pushed about 550HP. Their reported cruise was around 20knots.

Overall, I think the 480DB is a great boat that supports just about everything you want to do. BTW, I have 1700hrs on my mains and 4500hrs on my genny.

 

[Cruisinguy]

I have a '98 with the 625 hp Detroit Diesels. Not sure how fast you really are wanting to go, but I have never thought of my boat as being under powered. It gets up on plane quickly and cruising in the mid 20's to 30 mph range is plenty fast for my schedule. Not sure what you are used to but between watching the fuel flow meters and that big dingy getting hit with spray on the platform I don't think you will be wanting any more power. Of course when my neighbor blows by me with his 2000 HP MTU powered Viking 625 HP just aint enough. That thought quickly goes away when he fills his 2200 gallon fuel tank.

 

[brimanst]

Cruising guy,

Point taken. It is all relative. I guess you could ask a Grand Banks owner too, but I am sure he is happy as well.

 

[earthmover17]

I have a 98 480DB with the CAT 3196's. They have been a great motor. The boat cruises ~24kts at 2000 RPM which is usually right at 80% load. I am usually about 40gph at that speed. But if you need to be somewhere, this boat tops out at 30+knots and can easily do a "fast Cruise" at 27knots. Keep in mind that you will not be running with most of the sport fishers out there as they tend to put 800HP or more in a 48' boat as well as 1000 gal tanks to support their mission, but I regular to long distance cruising and it does just fine. At displacement speeds I get about 2nmpg.
I would not consider my SR as a "blue water boat" but if you pick your windows it will get you there.

The earlier 480's had a GM option which in my opinion is underpowered for this boat and only pushed about 550HP. Their reported cruise was around 20knots.

Overall, I think the 480DB is a great boat that supports just about everything you want to do. BTW, I have 1700hrs on my mains and 4500hrs on my genny.

You have 1700 hrs on 3196's and some horrible thing hasn't happened to them? Just a joke. I have 1600 on mine and so far Ive only had to replace an Exhaust riser. Seems everyone but a few of us are afraid of the big bad 3196's with all their problems.

Jack

 

[Converse48]

Not sure what the working definition of "underpowered" is, but I followed Ryan down the entire Bay in his 52DB with the 700 MANs. He had to pull back to "keep down" with me at 25 knots. On his own he would cruise at 27 or so. That's knots, not MPH.

I don't know how much faster one needs to blast down the bay carrying all that furniture, but I would NOT consider that boat under powered.

 

[Pseudomind]

It depends on what you want to do with the boat. I have 3196's rated at 660 HSP each. I cruise realistically at 20 KNTs and top out at 26 to 27. I burn 40 gallons per hour and find that is very economical for a boat my size. Most of the 560's in my vintage were buit with 3406 cats. I believe they were rated at 800 plus HSP and would cruise at 24 plus but the fuel burn was considerably more.
As for a boat being underpowered, as long as it gets up on plane and doesn't stuggle to maintain cruise speed I don't think it's an issue.
It all depends on how fast you want to go.
It's also been my experiance you can have all the horsepower in the world but you are only gonna go as fast as the seas will let you.

Jack

Simple I am not saying they are under-powered, I am trying to obtain an answer. I typically and in no God awful rush, but I have heard the term underpowered applied before, so I was looking for some comments, feed back or whatever one wishes to call it.

If boat "A" will perform ok with engine option "A" , but others feel it performs better, boat "A", with the other engine option, that is what is I am trying to find out.

I myself have no reason for some 1,000 HP engines burning 70 -100 gallons per hour, but I still do not want a boat that when the least little weather comes up it is underpowered, where one has to really fight because of not enough power.

Hell middle of the road is fine with me, but here again I do not have any idea, so I ask questions.

Someone a few months back inquired about a Carver 46 Pilot House, and someone replied back who had owned a Carver, that they felt they were under powered and If one was considering one,to find one with the bigger engine option.

 

[Cruisinguy]

Pseudomind,
I think your question is relevant. The beautiful thing is I think you are well on your way to finding your answer. It doesn't appear that anyone has any problems with the boats power and/or speed. I find one of the nicest things about the 480 is that you can actually cruise rather slow while staying on plane when the seas get rough. Of course I always say there is no replacement for displacement!

 

[osd9]

IMHO, underpowered means you can't use the boat for it's intended purpose. For example, if a boat has facilities for 6, but when you have 6 folks on board, loaded with fuel, water and stuff for 6 and then the boat can't get on plane, and/or hold plane at reasonable RPMs without overloading the motor(s), then it's underpowered.

However, if all you want is more speed, then you will need more power, or a different propolusion (i.e. O.D. vs I.B or Zeus vs I.B. or Straight drive vs V-Drive). 21-23 knots may sound slow to an offshore blue water fisherman. To me, it's damn good when I look at the overall package...including comfort, safety and the economy.

 

[Alex F]

IMHO, underpowered means you can't use the boat for it's intended purpose. For example, if a boat has facilities for 6, but when you have 6 folks on board, loaded with fuel, water and stuff for 6 and then the boat can't get on plane, and/or hold plane at reasonable RPMs without overloading the motor(s), then it's underpowered.

I totally agree with Dominic's definition of underpowered boat. This is why most experienced folks will always suggest to load a boat you about to purchase with all the weight that you expect it to handle without a struggle.

 

[Four Suns]

Well.. I know a 480 DB with about 8000 pounds of fuel, gear and passengers added still will cruise at 24 knots at 80% load for Cummins QSM-11's... It will jump on plane in about 10-15 seconds and stay on plane all the way down to about 12 knots...

Doesn't seem underpowered to me...

 

[Cruisinguy]

Well.. I know a 480 DB with about 8000 pounds of fuel, gear and passengers added still will cruise at 24 knots at 80% load for Cummins QSM-11's... It will jump on plane in about 10-15 seconds and stay on plane all the way down to about 12 knots...

Doesn't seem underpowered to me...

8000 pounds! Your wife needs to speak with mine and show her how to cut back. I think I unloaded that much this weekend in food, clothing, expresso machine, cuisinart, remote control boats.............

 

[tobnpr]

Dom's definition of underpowered is correct.
However, it's also a matter of individual needs and "wants".
For guys that own trawlers, displacement speed is fine.
At the other end of the spectrum are custom 70' Carolina sporties that will CRUISE at 40 knots. They're all about getting to the fish and back as fast as possible, and they don't mind burning over 100 gallons per hour to get there.

My observation would be that whatever the choice, your power selection should deliver performance comparable to similar class vessels from other manufacturers to avoid problems at resale.

 

[Jackie J V]

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder...probably somethin' similar applies to HP requirements.

I, also, was concerned about adequacy of power when I was negotiating for my 560 in the Spring. I have the 3406e CAT diesels producing 800HP a side. The boat gets on plane quickly, cruises at 32 MPH all day long and tops out at about 36 MPH.

Some fuel gets consumed in the process though. 32 MPH = 65 GPH total. 36 MPH = 80 GPH.

 

[Mr Salt]

My 540 CPMY is a heavy boat, 60,000 lbs with fuel and water. She has 2003 Caterpillar C-12s with 700 hp. She cruises at about 20 nmph and burns 34 gph. At WOT she will get up to 27 nmph. Is she underpowered, I don't know she gets us where we want to go. She has an 800 gallon fuel capacity so we can go long distances without worrying about needing fuel. Compared to the offshore fishing boats at my marina she is very slow, but she is fine for us and that is what counts.

 

[Lady Ashley SR560]

My 560 has the 800 hp. cats and cruises just fine .... near 27 knots at 2050rpm ... 25 knots at 2000 rpm. wot im over 30 knots

 

[fwebster]

The frame of reference for the original question seems to be what others have said or feel. One of the things I notice at our marina is that a whole lot of people run boats like they are ski boats and not big heavy cruisers. Everyone expects to go 40 mph and hop out of the water on plane in 2 seconds, but that doesn't happen with a 40,000+ lb boat no matter who made it.....and it sure doesn't mean they are under powered.