Salon temperature

[Robski97]

U earned the wrenches on that one! JOB WELL DONE ...

Rob

 

[bmac]

Brian-
This is a common issue with 44DBs. I battled with Sea Ray when my boat was new. Local A/C tech told me that the flow from the salon A/C was too small. Sea Ray's answer was that CruisAir signed off on the design. Here's what I have done the following things to address, and for the most part rectify, the issue:

1- I have had 90% sun shades made for the side windows and a 100% (blue sunbrella) for the front window that I use when temperatures are forecast to be 95 or above (which has been all too frequent this year).

2- The outflow of the salon unit was quite restricted from the factory. The opening of the vent at the bottom of the register in the salon was considerably smaller than it should be... see this picture here:

Note how the opening on the underside of the register is significantly smaller than the 7" oval opening that it is attached to. By my measures this represented a 40% reduction in the cross-section. Something tells me CruisAir did not sign off on that! I widened the opening on the underside of the register to be the same size as the actual duct attached to it. This greatly improved airflow to the main salon register.

3- I added a duct from the salon A/C unit to the galley. You can see it on the right here:

(Pardon the fingerprints on the door).
This has also improved overall airflow across the salon unit and has eliminated "dead space" (as Frank mentioned) in the galley. I added a 7x7x4 tee to the outlet of the A/C and ran 4" duct behind the love seat to the false panel (which is no longer false) in the galley. There was some non-structural modification involved behind the galley cabinets... but that's another whole story. Let's just say that the guys in the yard over the winter were wondering what the hell I was doing with a Sawzall with a 10" blade on it...

4- I had new custom supply registers made for the forward A/C outlets to have dampers, so I can selectively force more air to the outlet from the front unit that is in the salon (up next to the dinette). And I put an oscillating fan up there to make sure that sure finds its way around the salon.

5- I also had a 90% white sun shade made up that we put up in place of the three middle aft curtains to keep the sun from shining directly in to the salon.

6- I insulated the cockpit locker just to the right of the salon door. The openings in the locker all provide hot, humid, unconditioned air directly to that unit.

None of these were particularly cheap or easy fixes though, so you should exhaust all other options before pursuing.

Can I get the little blue wrenches next to my name now?

WOW!!!!!!!! Now THAT"S an answer. Thanks. The windshield cover and cockpit locker were ones I've got planned when I return from this trip, but I will have to give some thought to the more extensive fixes before undertaking them....maybe I should just trade up to a 52DB.....

 

[bmac]

Brain,
NO chemicals.. Ill come by one weekend and flush it for u. But thats not ur issue.

Its undersized equipment and too large load . Also unconditioned air migrating into the space doesnt help....

Alittle insulation during construction would help but that's another thread completely!

Rob

Rob

I'll give you a call when I return from this trip. When do you return to the sandbox? Maybe we can schedule it between cocktails at Watch Hill.

 

[Robski97]

Ill be back after labor day .... Come to River-head

Rob

 

[rondds]

Brian, even us little DBs have this problem! Constant battle for me. You can see from any of my pix the forward window shades are always up, blinds are drawn, and still the salon unit struggles. My salon ac also cools the mid cabin (beneath the dinette) that cabin is very cool (high 60s) but the salon stays up in the hi 70s during daylight hours. I have taken readings with IR thermometer at the register and the return and the difference is 15-20 degrees (what it should be). Seawater temp plays a role as well but I doubt there's a constriction with your flow - if there were, one or both units would cut off and you'd get a LO PS on the display. My salon doesn't cycle at all during the day but at night it does. If yours acts the same way, there's no problem with the panel or temp sensor.

Remember, your salon is not partially underwater (like it is in a DA), so you have a tremendous greenhouse effect. Not sure if your engines are under the salon but that doesn't help things either, esp when you shut down. My exhaust elbows run at 90 degrees and 10 minutes after shut down they're up to 125 degrees. Engines become huge cast iron radiators once they stop running. Let the bilge blowers run for a while after you shut down, button everything up real tight and wait for the weather to get back into the 80s!

 

[bmac]

Thanks, Ron. I suspect solar gain, high temps and high humidity have all conspired to stress a marginally capable salon unit with some design issues that were previously pointed out (and corrected) by Festivus. My salon unit runs continuously from 8 a.m. till late night but does cycle after that. We've been away for 2 weeks on the boat, in each port for 3 or 4 days so the engine heat hasn't been the problem, though I do know it can be. I run my blowers for at least a half hour after FWE but usually fo an hour or two as I get the boat cleaned up. Turning them off is usually the last thing I do before leaving the boat. I'm not sure if it was Gary or Frank Webster that suggested running them to cool off the engine room to protect the electronics and other sensitive equipment from extraordinarily high temperatures after running.

 

[jetlag]

Hi Jetlag
I'm also in the Houston area and have been thinking about having a cover fabricated for the windshield of my 400db similiar to what you have done. May I ask where you had the cover made?
Steve

(281) 334-7223
North canvas in League City on fm2094. They also made a dinghy cover for me. Great job!

 

[jetlag]

I am convinced that 90% of the problem is solar gain. We moved to a covered slip this Summer and it is amazing. I leave both units on 80 degrees with the fans set to intermittent when we leave the boat for the week. When we walk up to the boat the next weekend with Houston temps very near 100 most days... the boat is comfy and often the units are not even running. We have absolutely no problem getting the salon and stateroom uncomfortably cold. This is an '07 44DB with no mods or work done to the ac system. We used the double layer, insulated, windscreen cover while we were in an open marina and we keep it aboard for when we travel. It makes a tremendous difference. I do acknowledge that Sea Ray allows a huge amount of outside (hot unconditioned) air to enter the salon unit. They claim it is by design... I think it's stupid. Also, when we were in the open marina the sun would really heat up the hull of the boat in the area that the salon unit is located. That would in turn heat the air in the area where the unit draws from.
Best of luck.

 

[Gofirstclass]

Beachcomber came with a white Stamoid cover for the front windshield and light grey screen covers for the windshield and side windows and they all help keep it cool inside. I had a new screen made for the front windshield because the old one was showing its age and we used that on the trip home.

In this photo the screen is on the front windshield. I took it off and put up the Stamoid cover once we got home. When the boat is in the covered slip, the sun rises directly on the bow and by the time it got up to where the roof covered the forward part of the boat (10:00 a.m.) it was already hot inside the salon. Now, with the white Stamoid cover on the windshield it stays cool in there.

I had white screens for my 330 Sundancer that enclosed the entire cockpit and a white Sunbrella cover for the windshield, but no A/C. On days when the temps were in triple digits the window covers kept it about 20° cooler inside than out.

Keeping the direct sun out is the secret to keeping the salon cool.

 

[Converse48]

I am convinced that 90% of the problem is solar gain. We moved to a covered slip this Summer and it is amazing. I leave both units on 80 degrees with the fans set to intermittent when we leave the boat for the week. When we walk up to the boat the next weekend with Houston temps very near 100 most days... the boat is comfy and often the units are not even running. We have absolutely no problem getting the salon and stateroom uncomfortably cold. This is an '07 44DB with no mods or work done to the ac system. We used the double layer, insulated, windscreen cover while we were in an open marina and we keep it aboard for when we travel. It makes a tremendous difference. I do acknowledge that Sea Ray allows a huge amount of outside (hot unconditioned) air to enter the salon unit. They claim it is by design... I think it's stupid. Also, when we were in the open marina the sun would really heat up the hull of the boat in the area that the salon unit is located. That would in turn heat the air in the area where the unit draws from.
Best of luck.

I dunno... I'd say putting a roof over the boat is a pretty major mod! And a cool one too (pun intended).:thumbsup:

 

[Texashornet]

Thanks Jet Lag - I'll give them a call. Waiting for a bid now from Boat Fashions in Kemah.
BTW, saw you leaving out in front of Boardwalk a couple of weeks ago - nice boat. I did the Rum Race with a slip buddy that Saturday.

 

[jetlag]

Thanks a lot. We like her a lot. Best boat we have had thus far and I hope to keep her for a while. Not getting to use it as much as I'd like right now but cooler weather is just around the corner!

 

[Jus' Chillin]

Hell I could write a book on all the issues i've had with the a/c's on my 44 db since day one. Salon temps running up to 84 when it's 90 degrees outside in good ole Louisiana. I will tell you that I can't stress enough the regular flushing of the lines which I do every two months. This has been the first summer that the temps haven't gone above 80 in the salon. Here's my list of what I've done:
Did have SeaRay fly out Cruisair people on SeaRay's coin last year to deal with it. They found the neck on the discharge vent in salon was not cut to size at factory (like someone else posted). They enlarged it about 30-40% to spec. They reprogrammed my thermostat to get more/proper airflow.

I flush both the salon and forward a/c unit at the water pump. You will be amased at the differene in air temp coming out of your salon a/c when the "dock water hose" is flushing the unit out and you run JUST the unit (not the pump)......COLD, COLD air.

Also I put two bromine tablets in my a/c strainer each month. That has also made a difference in keeping strainer and system cleaner.

ULTIMATELY, yes I think the salon a/c is undersized, and possibly the water pump is also undersized because on the hottest day, you can bypass the pump and hook up the hose to the lines, turn on the a/c and BOOM, you've got cold air and the water hose temp is ambient temp and same as river (not terribly cold in the summer). For the money we paid for these big dogs, you shouldn't have to do a single thing to have this vessel properly condition the air. All the 52's i know of have no issue, and none of them do anything to their curtains and screens.

Do a serious flush. Add bromine tabs to the strainers, and do the front insulated curtain and your probably good to go.

Hugo

 

[rondds]

Hugo
That's real interesting info. Coupla questions...
1. what did you flush the system with (other than the bromine tabs) Just hose water or muriatic acid
2. do you feel it's the greater pressure provided by the hose that gives cooler temps OR is it the cooler temps of the hose water. I'd imagine that seawater in your area would run in the mid 80s whereas hose water would likely be at least 10 degrees cooler.

Thanks!

 

[DustinL]

I have never heard of using the bromine tabs for this....I did see hooking the dockwater hose up to one did make a bit of a difference. I always wondered why my A/C always took forever before I learned to back flush both systems. HUGE difference it has made. I could not belive how much lack of waterflow I had until i did this. Previous owner upgraded both units and larger 2005 12k and 9k BTU in a 350. now with all the water flow cant run both units because it's just too cold. I wished I had done this before. Now the water out of my thru hole fittings almost spray on the dock.

 

[rondds]

So how do you back flush? I've stuck a garden hose into the discharges and pushed water through the system several times. Didn't make any difference to the hot salon.

 

[DustinL]

I took a small fitting where it would fit inside the thru hull fitting and used a good pressure hose. Did it to both thru hull fittings and disconnected both hoses at the pump in the bildge.....(FYI) the intake side with the strainer must be done quickley with the seacock open but make sure to close it back while connecting. Otherwise you will get very very wet. The marina I am at doesn't have alot of great water flow through it so my main problem was alge build up and dirt dobbers building nests inside the fittings and hoses. I clean both of these items out now around every three weeks to every month. A process I wished I had started long ago. With the better water flow both of my units run alot cooler. The key is alot of water pressure. Hope this helps you out....

 

[rondds]

Hi Dustin
Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, that's exactly what I had done and it didn't make any difference. I did it mainly to try and ascertain if there was an obstruction and I found none. The water flow to my forward discharge was and remains pretty anemic, despite having replaced the pump.

 

[DustinL]

Ron, I have only seen that problem with one other boat. Matter of fact it was an 88 345db. The boat had been bottom painted 3 yrs prior to this and had a little tape left on the intake port. This same boat sat in a limestone quarry marina in Nashville and had deposits around the seacock intake. The owner swam under the boat and touched the fitting to find this, then had it pulled and pressure washed. Not saying that may be the problem but could be something to look at. I dont really know what the conditions are like in Jersey waters. Are your units the original ones. He replaced his last season (not cheap) and found lots of deposits inside the old units flow tubes. These just may be a few helpful hints but I hope you can find a simple remedy.

 

[rondds]

Dustin
The larger salon unit is original. The forward unit is newer - probably 2004 or so. I've had the boat for 7 seasons and it's out of the water each fall and powerwashed. I've checked the strainers a million times chipping away to see if there's any barnacles in there -never found anything. It performs decently and the air at the register is 15-20 degrees cooler than at the return, even in 95+ degree outdoor weather. I'm thinking it's more likely scale buildup as you describe inside the old unit or it just can't keep up with the hothouse salon.