Rule Bilge Pump in Sump Box occasionally gets air in it and won't prime/pump

jff

jff

Member
Mar 29, 2008
510
Atlanta
Boat Info
2017 Crest Pontoon
Engines
Yamaha
I've got a sump box with a Rule 2000 Bilge Pump in there. Every so often the pump will be running but not pumping, the reason being that there is air in it. If I reach in and turn it sideways a bunch of air comes out and it pumps out the box. This pump is 1 week old, the last pump was doing the same thing and burned out because while I wasn't here it just ran and ran without pumping. This pump will probably burn out as well if I'm not around when it happens (various things flow into that box, such as AC condensate, so the pump runs quite often). I moved the sensor up so that there is a *lot* of water in the box before the pump kicks on, just to make sure the moment it kicks on and stirs things up there is no chance of air down low. That seemed to help but not fully solve the problem, from time to time still somehow air gets in there and the pump runs and runs without pumping until I tilt it to get rid of the air. Any ideas?

Regards,
Capt. Jason
 
Our boat has the same 2000 pump, but we have the old style separate float switch. The switch is mounted about 2" above the bottom of the pump, never had any problems. It might be worth installing the separate float. If you needed to raise it more you could cut a piece of Starboat to mount it. Just a thought
 
I actually do have a separate float switch and it's mounted up higher, probably 70% to the top of the pump in terms of height. So there is easily 3" of water above the base of the pump before it starts pumping - which is what I'm confused as to how air could be getting under there. But that's definitely what is happening, when it starts running and won't stop (and isn't pumping), if I tilt it to the side a bunch of air bubbles come out and it starts pumping.

Regards,
Capt. Jason
 
I would open the pump itself, make sure there is nothing stuck in it. Also check the pump for cracks in the housing. Rule has some problems a few years back. You could have one of the pumps with cracks. Rule did replace it for free back then.
 
Thanks Bahamabreisus. I did pull out the pump, it's 100% clean (as I mentioned, it's only literally one week old). I guess there could be a crack somewhere but I don't see it and it seems unlikely on a brand new pump. I'll inspect again but I think there is something else going on, either how the water rushes into the sump box or possibly air in the line (there is a check-valve in there). Strange that it's so intermittent though, like 1 out of every 100 pumps this happens.

Regards,
Capt. Jason
 
When ours was cracked it was also brand new. It was a hairline crack in the housing, but enough to suck air. Good Luck
 
When you had a hairline crack, did it lose prime every time or was it intermittent? Seems like it would be a lot more of a consistent problem if there was a crack but maybe that's not the case. Was the crack visible to the naked eye on the outside of the pump? Was it in the larger diameter base area on the outside or higher up?
 
It did work sometimes, but the problem happened more often than yours. The cracks were above the base, where it where the pump thins out. It was hard to see them, but if you pull a little to the side, you would see them. Pop the pump out of holder, you should be able to see them if they are there.
 
jff, Could the polarity of the pump be backwards? These pumps can still pump wired wrong..though they tend to aerate on startup. I know this from personal experience after replacing a bilge pump in a hard to get to location.
 
They tend to aerate on startup all the time, or when they are wired wrong? It could be, I'm honestly not 100% sure, if it is the last three have all been wired backwards. :) I'll do some exploring.
 
I had a similiar issue on my 290 sump and it was the check valve randomly not closing all the way and causing water and air to rush backwards into the pump. I cleaned the check valve and found debris in it.
 
jff said:
I actually do have a separate float switch and it's mounted up higher, probably 70% to the top of the pump in terms of height. So there is easily 3" of water above the base of the pump before it starts pumping - which is what I'm confused as to how air could be getting under there. But that's definitely what is happening, when it starts running and won't stop (and isn't pumping), if I tilt it to the side a bunch of air bubbles come out and it starts pumping.

Regards,
Capt. Jason
Click to expand...

Jason,

IMO, there are two issues going on here:
1. "...when it starts running and won't stop (and isn't pumping)..." - As you know the pump triggers and stops only when the float switch "tells" it to. So, if your pump finally triggers but keeps running this tells me that your float switch is stuck open. However, this doesn't necessary mean that the switch is bad as we move on to issue #2 where water level doesn't change b/c the pump is not pumping. I don't know if you tested your switch. When getting the water out does the switch go back to normal position and does the pump stops?
2. "...Every so often the pump will be running but not pumping..." - As you described earlier, the pump is position low enough to avoid air pockets. So, doubt it's the cause of the issue why it's not pumping. Each sump pump should have check valve and I'm sure yours have it too. If the pump triggers and doesn't do anything, but then when you wiggle it and the water pumps out fine I doubt that it's the clogged tube or the check valve. You can probably do a quick clean out just to make sure that there's nothing stock in the line by disconnecting the tube from the pump and stick city water hose in it and flush it.

However, based on the latest info we have it still sounds like a pump issue. If the wiring was reversed, there wouldn't be a situations like sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. IMO, wrong wiring would not make the pump work correctly even ones.

Before we say that new pump is no good give us more details on your latest testing.

BTW, I've replaced few of these pumps and switches as this is critical component to make sure my boat floats. As preventive measure for keeping the pumps and switches clean I add about 1/2 of a cup of regular bleach in the bilge and the shower sump box every week or every other week. This helps to clean the clime off the pumps.

Good luck,
Alex.
 
Alex, bleach will deteriorate the check valve, which causes the sump to cycle. Thse use of more mild cleaners will extend the life of the whole sump system.
 
RollerCoastr said:
Alex, bleach will deteriorate the check valve, which causes the sump to cycle. Thse use of more mild cleaners will extend the life of the whole sump system.
Click to expand...

I've been using it for the past 5-6yrs with no issues. But, I'm always open for better solutions. What safer cleaner do you suggest instead, a regular bilge cleaner? Prior to bleach I was using just bilge cleaner from WM.
 
Raritan CP is one of the better choices. It's expensive of course, but it's also highly concentrated and it's one of the best products to use in a vacuflush system. (prolonging duckbill changes is a good thing!)

The bleach damage can be subtle - we're all accustomed to the sump cycling anyway, so cycles due to a worn check valve can be hard to notice.
 
When it was wired backwards it would only pump water after you removed the pump from the strainer and released the air, at that point with the pump still running when you reimersed it it would pump overboard though not as robust as it would with the impeller turning in the right direction...stumped me for awhile, checked the hose, took the check out and checked for sticking or blockage etc. The check valve is only to stop water in the hose from refilling the sump box when the pump shuts off which would cause "cycling" of the pump. One of those dumb mistakes that you never forget.
 
Thanks for all the ideas guys. My switch is actually a Water Witch, and it's about three weeks old (I replaced it for good measure before my month-long ocean trip, I'm currently at Little Palm Island). The Water Witch is cool because it has no moving parts, it's really just a simple sensor. And I'm sure it's not the problem because the pump is running when it should, ie. if the switch is submerged the pump is running as it should - just that sometimes in this situation no water is pumping out because of air caught under the pump. I did pull out the black check valve, it looks clean, but it's really hard to say - I think when I get home I will replace it as well and if it happens again the pump with yet another new pump. It has to be one or the other in my view of it.

Regards,
Capt. Jason
 
When your pump runs and pumps the water out of the sump does it pump it all completely out or is there some water still remaining in the sump? Mine did what yours does and what I did was raise the float switch up so as to shut off with water still remaining above the pump. Never had a problem again since doing this.
 
I've raised the float switch about as high as it will go, I don't think that's the problem - I think it's either a crack in the pump or a bad check valve. But thanks for the ideas.

J
 
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