Refrigerators not Working

[Korkie]

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[ttmott]

Assuming you are on shore power, check the GFI receptacle in your head? Both AC’s are probably on the same AC circuit.

Why would refer's be on GFCI circuits? First for me.
There should be dedicated circuit breakers for the refrigeration both on the DC side as well as on the AC side.
The light on my Sub Zero in the galley flickers also; it's the door switch not making good contact in my case. Twiddle a bit with that switch and the light should not flicker (advanced troubleshooting).
The first thing to do is test the AC power at the receptacle where the units are plugged in; by test I mean plug in a hair dryer or something that will pull some current to make sure not only the correct voltage is there but also the circuit can deliver the amps. If you have good AC power where the refrigerator is plugged in then the issue is with something in the refrigerator circuits like the inverter or switching circuit. There is no real need to mess with the DC side if the thing will not work on AC. It is odd however that coincidently both refrigerators went down at the same time and neither operate on AC or DC.... This is why I'm suggesting to make sure the circuit can deliver the amps; It may have the voltage to stay in AC mode but not the capability to deliver the amps. Corrosion, failing circuit breaker, or loose wire connection can cause this. In my case the bridge refer is AC/DC but the solon units are both only AC. None are on a GFCI circuit.

 

[bbwhitejr]

Why would refer's be on GFCI circuits? First for me.
There should be dedicated circuit breakers for the refrigeration both on the DC side as well as on the AC side.
The light on my Sub Zero in the galley flickers also; it's the door switch not making good contact in my case. Twiddle a bit with that switch and the light should not flicker (advanced troubleshooting).
The first thing to do is test the AC power at the receptacle where the units are plugged in; by test I mean plug in a hair dryer or something that will pull some current to make sure not only the correct voltage is there but also the circuit can deliver the amps. If you have good AC power where the refrigerator is plugged in then the issue is with something in the refrigerator circuits like the inverter or switching circuit. There is no real need to mess with the DC side if the thing will not work on AC. It is odd however that coincidently both refrigerators went down at the same time and neither operate on AC or DC.... This is why I'm suggesting to make sure the circuit can deliver the amps; It may have the voltage to stay in AC mode but not the capability to deliver the amps. Corrosion, failing circuit breaker, or loose wire connection can cause this. In my case the bridge refer is AC/DC but the solon units are both only AC. None are on a GFCI circuit.

I have a dedicated AC and DC circuits for the refrigerators/freezer. All are on the same circuits.

Bennett

 

[Dani-Lu]

Why would refer's be on GFCI circuits? First for me.
There should be dedicated circuit breakers for the refrigeration both on the DC side as well as on the AC side.
The light on my Sub Zero in the galley flickers also; it's the door switch not making good contact in my case. Twiddle a bit with that switch and the light should not flicker (advanced troubleshooting).
The first thing to do is test the AC power at the receptacle where the units are plugged in; by test I mean plug in a hair dryer or something that will pull some current to make sure not only the correct voltage is there but also the circuit can deliver the amps. If you have good AC power where the refrigerator is plugged in then the issue is with something in the refrigerator circuits like the inverter or switching circuit. There is no real need to mess with the DC side if the thing will not work on AC. It is odd however that coincidently both refrigerators went down at the same time and neither operate on AC or DC.... This is why I'm suggesting to make sure the circuit can deliver the amps; It may have the voltage to stay in AC mode but not the capability to deliver the amps. Corrosion, failing circuit breaker, or loose wire connection can cause this. In my case the bridge refer is AC/DC but the solon units are both only AC. None are on a GFCI circuit.

Because on many Searay boat models, the head GFCI receptacle on the Refrig AC breaker circuit. What makes it less obvious to owners, is the head GFCI receptacle installed inside the vanity cabinet in the head, so when it blows, it’s out of sight out of mind. I have had female guests blow it with their hair blower.

 

[Dani-Lu]

This is what I think the problem may that the resting charge of my both my battery banks is only 10.8V. It could have been even lower but I started the boat while it was connected to shore power and let the engines run for awhile. It is my understanding that a resting battery charge should be 12.8V and 13.4 when the engine is running.

I purchased new AGM batteries from Sam's Club in January 2019; which makes the batteries 3-years-old now. My memory is telling that 3-4 years is lifespan of a marine battery.

You normally should get 3 years on wet batteries, and 5 years on AGM.

 

[Dani-Lu]

Argus, from the voltage it certainly sounds like your batteries need a charge or replacement, but that answers the DC side. Have you checked the GFCI receptacle yet for the AC side?

 

[Woody]

Argus, from the voltage it certainly sounds like your batteries need a charge or replacement, but that answers the DC side. Have you checked the GFCI receptacle yet for the AC side?

 

[Korkie]

Why would refer's be on GFCI circuits? First for me.
There should be dedicated circuit breakers for the refrigeration both on the DC side as well as on the AC side.
The light on my Sub Zero in the galley flickers also; it's the door switch not making good contact in my case. Twiddle a bit with that switch and the light should not flicker (advanced troubleshooting).
The first thing to do is test the AC power at the receptacle where the units are plugged in; by test I mean plug in a hair dryer or something that will pull some current to make sure not only the correct voltage is there but also the circuit can deliver the amps. If you have good AC power where the refrigerator is plugged in then the issue is with something in the refrigerator circuits like the inverter or switching circuit. There is no real need to mess with the DC side if the thing will not work on AC. It is odd however that coincidently both refrigerators went down at the same time and neither operate on AC or DC.... This is why I'm suggesting to make sure the circuit can deliver the amps; It may have the voltage to stay in AC mode but not the capability to deliver the amps. Corrosion, failing circuit breaker, or loose wire connection can cause this. In my case the bridge refer is AC/DC but the solon units are both only AC. None are on a GFCI circuit.

Because you just don't know until you know. I have seen stranger (and crazier) things that POs have done electrically.
When you get a previously owned boat you just cannot assume anything. You inherit ALL of the improper repairs, corner cutting, unsafe practices from all of the POs. That is why when I trouble shoot a circuit, unless I have already visited it, I always start from the shore power and follow it, testing along the way to the problem. Takes a little extra time, but I now know exactly what I have.

 

[ttmott]

Because you just don't know until you know. I have seen stranger (and crazier) things that POs have done electrically.
When you get a previously owned boat you just cannot assume anything. You inherit ALL of the improper repairs, corner cutting, unsafe practices from all of the POs. That is why when I trouble shoot a circuit, unless I have already visited it, I always start from the shore power and follow it, testing along the way to the problem. Takes a little extra time, but I now know exactly what I have.

Yea - no doubt; I've seen some wacky things owners and service people have Macgyvered also. But I don't think SR put these things on GFCI; did they?

 

[techmitch]

Yea - no doubt; I've seen some wacky things owners and service people have Macgyvered also. But I don't think SR put these things on GFCI; did they?

Did you see Woody's post #27?

 

[ttmott]

Did you see Woody's post #27?

Ah, so in his case not on the GFI. That is what I would expect.

 

[Korkie]

Very true - That is if for some reason unknown to us, some electrical expert (so to speak) changed something up. I once worked on a boat that lost power to the microwave. Owner was not electrically inclined at all. After removing the microwave I found that the receptacle it should have been plugged in to was empty and the microwave wire went through a hole to the left. The dedicated receptacle had no power. So I found the end of the microwave power cord. It had been cut off, spliced with wire nuts to another orange extension cord and was plugged into the outlet in the head. Yes - the GFI. The original outlet black feed wire had come off due to a loose connection which rendered it dead and also a safety issue. Ya just never know. Follow the circuit. Start where you have a full power reading and stop at every switch, plug, junction and test you are getting the same power (no significant voltage or amperage drops) on both sides.

One quick way you can gain some information is to plug your fridges 120vac into a non boat power supply such as a cord directly from an electrical source you know is patent (pier). This will tell you if it is your boats power (or lack of) or if it is the fridges issue. You can also try other appliances (i.e. electric drill, wet dry vac - something that pulls substantial amps) in the plug that your fridge would normally plug in to. This would also help to let you know where your failure might be. Thee are of course meters for all this testing, but you really just need to figure where your problem is - boat or appliance. That at least narrows it down.

For the dc side of this, I am with others on this post, your batteries are toast. Going down to 10.8 volts is non recoverable. It is not enough to power up the fridge compressors and hopefully they didn't burn up continually trying to start up. Aside from your windless, bowthruster (if you have one) and the like appliances, refrigeration is one if not the highest draw on your boats 12vdc system.

 

[km1125]

....Aside from your windless, bowthruster (if you have one) and the like appliances, refrigeration is one if not the highest draw on your boats 12vdc system.

Most fridges don't really draw that much current (5-8A typical, maybe 10-12 on larger ones), but they're nearly a continuous load, which makes them one of the biggest power consumptions on the boat. Spotlights, blowers and electric heads can draw much more current but are used for much less lengths of time.

Compare, for example, a 7.4L motor, which draws HUNDREDS of amps while starting but since it's only ~5 seconds would only use about 2-3AH of capacity each time it starts, or maybe a few times that each day for a total of 5-10AH. Now consider that fridge, which might draw 8A while it's running, but it's running 50% of the time over that same 24 hours and you come up with 96AH.

 

[Korkie]

Most fridges don't really draw that much current (5-8A typical, maybe 10-12 on larger ones), but they're nearly a continuous load, which makes them one of the biggest power consumptions on the boat. Spotlights, blowers and electric heads can draw much more current but are used for much less lengths of time.

Compare, for example, a 7.4L motor, which draws HUNDREDS of amps while starting but since it's only ~5 seconds would only use about 2-3AH of capacity each time it starts, or maybe a few times that each day for a total of 5-10AH. Now consider that fridge, which might draw 8A while it's running, but it's running 50% of the time over that same 24 hours and you come up with 96AH.

That was exactly my point.

 

[Dani-Lu]

Ah, so in his case not on the GFI. That is what I would expect.

No, assuming the below schematic is for the OP’s boat, the head GFI (red circle) is on the Frig A/C circuit. If that GFI pops, no A/C power to both frig’s, and also, no power at the galley outlet

 

[km1125]

No, assuming the below schematic is for the OP’s boat, the head GFI (red circle) is on the Frig A/C circuit. If that GFI pops, no A/C power to both frig’s, and also, no power at the galley outlet

View attachment 121869

If it's actually wired like that diagram, then the GFI is AFTER both the Galley Fridge and the Cockpit Fridge outlets, so those shouldn't be affected. The GFI would only prevent power to thing plugged in directly there, or at the downstream Galley Outlet.

However, who's to say this directly matches the OP's condition, either OEM or after some POs?

 

[ttmott]

No, assuming the below schematic is for the OP’s boat, the head GFI (red circle) is on the Frig A/C circuit. If that GFI pops, no A/C power to both frig’s, and also, no power at the galley outlet

View attachment 121869

@km1125 is correct. The GFCI protection is all circuits down stream from the device; in this case the Head and Galley receptacles. If the refer outlets were GFCI protected then the GFCI device would be shown as the "Galley Fridge Outlet" or the circuit breaker before in the panel. There is no code or standard requiring fixed appliances to be GFCI protected so, consequently, it would be added unnecessary cost to build the boat.
Here you can see the same arrangement for the 52DB
Everything on the downstream side of the GFCI device is GFCI protected.

 

[Woody]

No, assuming the below schematic is for the OP’s boat, the head GFI (red circle) is on the Frig A/C circuit. If that GFI pops, no A/C power to both frig’s, and also, no power at the galley outlet

View attachment 121869

That schematic is for the OP's boat. I don't know how the boat is actually wired but there have been numerous times here on CSR that folks have complained about something or another that mysteriously stopped working and 'check the GFI' solved the problem. I'd check the GFI, it ain't hard to do.

 

[Dani-Lu]

@km1125 is correct. The GFCI protection is all circuits down stream from the device; in this case the Head and Galley receptacles. If the refer outlets were GFCI protected then the GFCI device would be shown as the "Galley Fridge Outlet" or the circuit breaker before in the panel. There is no code or standard requiring fixed appliances to be GFCI protected so, consequently, it would be added unnecessary cost to build the boat.
Here you can see the same arrangement for the 52DB
Everything on the downstream side of the GFCI device is GFCI protected.
View attachment 121870

Sorry, I don’t think you guys are correct. This is a Series Circuit. If the GFI popped, the circuit is open, so no power to everything on the circuit. Reset GFI, or replace if bad and A/C problem will be fixed. Hopefully the OP already did this and he is off buying beer to put in his frigs. Of course, the issue could be something else, but before going in the woods, first check the easy stuff.

 

[unsalted]

Sorry, I don’t think you guys are correct. This is a Series Circuit. If the GFI popped, the circuit is open, so no power to everything on the circuit. Reset GFI, or replace if bad and A/C problem will be fixed. Hopefully the OP already did this and he is off buying beer to put in his frigs. Of course, the issue could be something else, but before going in the woods, first check the easy stuff.

I beg to differ. It is a series of connections but AC is wired as a parallel circuit. You can think of the GFCI as a switch that turns off the hot leg of the circuit for the rest of its length. The power leading to that GFCI remains hot, so any devices or outlets before that GFCI switch are in parallel and remain hot.