Rebedding rails and cleats

[lpvanam]

I have some leaks that I think are coming from the rails and cleats. Any rebidding advice would be appreciated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jason78]

340DA owners have reported leaks on Bowrails. My advice would be to first isolate the leak and make sure it is not coming from the rub rail which is another common leak point. You can tape off the bow rail and cleat mounts then get a garden hose and run it over the top of the rub rail and see if you get any leaking. Then if none, you can run some tape over the RR and water down the bow rail mounts good to try and isolate the leak. I have to reseal the entire rub rail on my boat last year. Just hate to see you go to all the trouble of resealing the cleats and bow rails then find out the leak was in the rub rail.

 

[hanger505]

Personally, it is crazy to find these types of issues on such newer boats. Is SR getting skimpy on the use of sealant when manufacturing??

 

[williamhay]

I have a 2006 340. I just repaired a leak that was coming from my deck rails that hold my sunpad in place. You know, the two rails down the middle of the bow. Well, I had to completely remove the headliner to get to all eight bolts. $2600 later, I fixed the leak.

I have some leaks that I think are coming from the rails and cleats. Any rebidding advice would be appreciated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jason78]

Personally, it is crazy to find these types of issues on such newer boats. Is SR getting skimpy on the use of sealant when manufacturing??

Yes, they are, or at least were. I would like to think they are more careful now than they were at least in the 2000's. A friend of mine just bought a used 2008 310DA. As soon as it sat in an open slip after a night of rain he had water coming in like crazy. Luckily he bought it from a dealer and either they or Sea Ray covered it and he did not have to pay. Sealant either not applied at all or not applied properly subsequently causing leaks has been a frequent topic of discussion here.

 

[Drifter85258]

I have a 2006 340. I just repaired a leak that was coming from my deck rails that hold my sunpad in place. You know, the two rails down the middle of the bow. Well, I had to completely remove the headliner to get to all eight bolts. $2600 later, I fixed the leak.

wow! Is that really how you get to those? Is that all labor? Seems like there has to be a better way!

 

[daddyox]

My 2004 320 starboard and port windows have leaked (into the central vac and elsewhere), my skylights were leaking and I've resealed them, and currently my radar arch (around something...). My 2002 truck with 150,000 miles doesn't leak...
I don't have the hours available to work on it!

 

[jason78]

My 2004 320 starboard and port windows have leaked (into the central vac and elsewhere), my skylights were leaking and I've resealed them, and currently my radar arch (around something...). My 2002 truck with 150,000 miles doesn't leak...
I don't have the hours available to work on it!

I believe the only alternative method would be to cut out the headliner vinyl with a razor knife where the bolts come through. Then try to cover the holes back up. This is the main reason I suggested the OP make darn sure it really is the bow rails or deck rails and not rub rail before taking on that project. I seem to recall that Scott (sfergson727) had to reseal his bow rails a few years ago. Maybe he can offer some advice on access.

 

[Rick Young]

I have a 2007 320DA that is moored in an open slip on Lake Norman in NC. I have a leak that is getting the carpet wet in the space between the cabinet at the end of the couch and the hanging closet on the starboard side of the boat. This is the space where the privacy curtain for the forward berth is stowed.

I thought is was leaking around the round port windows on the fore deck as the caulking was getting bad. I removed the old and re-caulked. Still leaking.

I have checked to make sure all of the screws holding the rub rail were tight, the screws holding the bow rails were tight, the nut holdintg the wiper post was tight and it still leaks. I put new molding over the windshield screws last fall so I don't think it is leaking there either.

I guess I am going to have to proceed with taping off different suspect areas. Getting out the old hose, a case of beer, and starting to dump water to see where I can make it leak.

Any other suggestions on what to try?

 

[jason78]

I have a 2007 320DA that is moored in an open slip on Lake Norman in NC. I have a leak that is getting the carpet wet in the space between the cabinet at the end of the couch and the hanging closet on the starboard side of the boat. This is the space where the privacy curtain for the forward berth is stowed.

I thought is was leaking around the round port windows on the fore deck as the caulking was getting bad. I removed the old and re-caulked. Still leaking.

I have checked to make sure all of the screws holding the rub rail were tight, the screws holding the bow rails were tight, the nut holdintg the wiper post was tight and it still leaks. I put new molding over the windshield screws last fall so I don't think it is leaking there either.

I guess I am going to have to proceed with taping off different suspect areas. Getting out the old hose, a case of beer, and starting to dump water to see where I can make it leak.

Any other suggestions on what to try?

Rick, the rubrail screws being tight have little bearing on preventing water from leaking in. All screws must be sealed with sealant, This means the screws you can see, the row of screws under the Stainless rail you can't see and the row of screws under the rub rail that hold the deck to the hull. You also have the deck/hull joint that must be sealed. I had to re seal all of the above last April. In a nutshell, there was water leaking behind the top of the RR and getting caught behind the RR and leaking in through a tiny void in the deck hull joint bead of sealant. The factory bead of caulk under the RR kept water behind the RR making it worse. Rather than "band-aid" the problem by running a bead of caulk over the top of the RR, I pulled and resealed the entire thing. If you want more details, just PM me and maybe we can discuss it over the phone.

 

[Rick Young]

Thank you Jason. I am prepared to do this if it will fix the problem. What did you use for sealant.

 

[jason78]

Thank you Jason. I am prepared to do this if it will fix the problem. What did you use for sealant.

For the deck/hull joint and all screws I used 3M Marine Silicone Sealant. White on the deck/hull joint and clear on all screw holes. I had planned to use 3M4000UV but Rusty cautioned me not to use anything that was an adhesive sealant for this particular task to allow for the maximum amount of flex in the sealant. None of this sealant is exposed to the sun so the UV did not really apply anyway. As I recall, Rusty recommended Boat Life or 3M so I went with 3M. I did use 3M4000UV on all sun exposed joints but that did not apply to the rub rail reseal project.

Again, I highly recommend isolating the leak(s) first to make sure you are fixing the right thing. Doing this rub rail was a huge undertaking and I can't imagine doing it with the boat in the water but it was well worth the effort and in the end it was the solution.

 

[Woody]

jason78, you have a couple pics of the hull joint you could put up? I'd like to see what it looks like under the rub rail. I think I will probably need to do mine.

 

[jason78]

jason78, you have a couple pics of the hull joint you could put up? I'd like to see what it looks like under the rub rail. I think I will probably need to do mine.

Sure Woody. Here are a few.

Picture #1- I have the Stainless RR completely removed and am in the process of removing the Plastic Rub Rail. You can see the factory bead of caulk under the RR I was describing earlier. Removing the Rub rails was the easy part. Getting all the old caulk residue off, not so easy!

Picture #2- At this point, Fast Forward about 4 days. I have removed all Rub Rail, laid it out in the yard as it went on and cleaned it up good. Cleaned SS with SS Cleaner polish and cleaned RR with compound and cleaner wax. It now almost looks new. I have also cleaned out the entire deck/hull joint of all old caulk. I have also cleaned all caulk residue off the hull and cleaned the entire area with compound. In addition, at this point, I have already removed each deck/hull screw, cleaned the hole of old caulk, re-caulked and replaced screw one by one. At the advice of Rusty H this is fine to do but must be done one at a time. No more than one deck/hull screw should be removed at a time. Ready to tape off for joint caulking.

Picture #3- Taping off in prep for caulking. As you can see the deck edge is not perfectly straight when it is cut at the factory so you need to make sure you leave room so the caulk bead does not interfere with the lower lip of the plastic Rub Rail.

Picture #4- Deck hull joint is caulked and cured. I took my time and made sure to get adequate caulk up in the joint and worked it down to a nice surface bead. Ready to begin installation of Plastic then Stainless Rub Rail. You must be very careful with keeping up with screw holes now. The screw pattern is staggered along with the pieces. You have to make sure you don't miss a hole. One or two people to help is a must. I wanted to make sure I got plenty of caulk in the holes so I did it one section at a time filling all holes, screwing on first layer, then adding caulk to the SS RR screw holes again and mounting that working my way around the boat. Again, it is best to have someone to help so you can do all this quickly. I could not find an after pic but it looked brand new and a lot better without the bead of caulk under the rub rail. Truth is I was ready to be done at that point.

Thanks to Rusty Higgins who walked me through this project! Not only did I solve the leak in the cabin, the pesky issue so many 280 owners have dealt with of getting some water in the bilge after running the boat was also solved. Apparently water coming up on the swim platform when coming down off plane was getting through the RR on the transom. Even coming down very slow some water would come up on the platform that is almost even with the RR.

 

[Woody]

Good pics Jason…thanks. What do you think the original assembly process was…put caulk on hull, then set top on and screw? Or…set top onto hull, screw it and then caulk from bottom as best they could?

You said, ‘I took my time and made sure to get adequate caulk up in the joint‘… Do you mean just with the caulk gun or did you use some other method? In your pic it appears the joint is tight or tighter by the screws. When the rub rail and insert are added would their screws pull that gap together more uniformly?

Did you reuse all the old holes for the rub rail and insert, did you have any that were stripped? Do you know the size of the wooden backer that all those screws go into…knowing the thickness would be helpful.

I’m wondering about water damage to the wooden backer. If water followed some screws into the boat it means there would be some wet wood that isn’t going to dry out easily. What do you think?

 

[jason78]

Good pics Jason…thanks. What do you think the original assembly process was…put caulk on hull, then set top on and screw? Or…set top onto hull, screw it and then caulk from bottom as best they could?

You said, ‘I took my time and made sure to get adequate caulk up in the joint‘… Do you mean just with the caulk gun or did you use some other method? In your pic it appears the joint is tight or tighter by the screws. When the rub rail and insert are added would their screws pull that gap together more uniformly?

Did you reuse all the old holes for the rub rail and insert, did you have any that were stripped? Do you know the size of the wooden backer that all those screws go into…knowing the thickness would be helpful.

I’m wondering about water damage to the wooden backer. If water followed some screws into the boat it means there would be some wet wood that isn’t going to dry out easily. What do you think?

Woody, I will try to answer all the questions-

I am not positive but I believe there is some type of sealer or bedding that is put on the joint of the deck seam before the deck is lowered on to the hull that helps seal and permanently adhere the deck to the hull. I have heard this described as a "bread dough" sort of thick bead that is laid down and compressed when the deck is lowered down. Since this is a "shoebox" joint, that area cannot be seen so maybe someone else can confirm or deny this. It was very apparent to me that the factory caulking in the joint that can be seen from looking under the lip on the outside was applied after the deck and hull were mated and screwed together. The caulking was done relatively well, it was just not consistently applied in a couple spots. I am sure it was just part of the "assembly line effect" whereas I naturally took a lot more time to make sure I got plenty of caulk in the seam working slow and someone on assembly line is trying to do an adequate but quick job.

I did not do anything special, per se, my only reason in making that statement was to make the point out that I did work slowly to get plenty of caulk in that joint. The pictures make it look like just a thick bead on the outside of the joint. As far as the deck looking tighter to the hull where the screws are, that is exactly how it was when the RR was removed. In fact, when I removed each screw and resealed it, the deck did not flex out at all in those spots. It is formed that way, probably from being attached 12 hours or whatever (not long) after the glass was laid. The factory caulk pattern indicated that is exactly how it appeared after the deck was screwed to the hull. If I had before pics of that you would have seen the factory caulk followed the inconsistencies perfectly. I am not sure if you have been to the plant but you will see because of the layup process there are no two decks or hulls exactly the same so they are naturally not going to match up like something that was machine made. The outer shape of the hull and deck are controlled by the molds but the thickness is controlled by the person laying the glass. My friend's 08 310DA looks pretty much the same. It is all very close though and looks perfect when the rub rail is on. This is one the reasons Rusty stressed that I use a non-adhesive caulk to allow some movement without compromising the seal like you might expect could happen with a more rigid Adhesive Sealant.

I was able to use all existing screw holes. None were stripped and all tightened down just fine. From inside the cabin where I disassembled the cabinets to find the leak, the backer wood looked to be maybe 1/2 or 3/4 wood. I did not see any evidence of damage to any of the wood at all and I did probe the holes with a spudger. Honestly, I caught and dealt with this leak so quick I don't see how it could have had time to damage anything anyway. I also have an advantage, I guess, that my boat has always been in a covered slip, except for the first year it was brand new, so it is only wet when I wash it. I can see how someone who had leaking that went UN-addressed for a period of time, especially one that sits out in the weather, could have issues though so like any leak, as long as it is caught in time, it can be easily repaired.

Jason

 

[Woody]

Different boat.....but I did have to reseal the wiper posts, and numerous other items on the 340. Scared to death that I might have to reseal the rub rail or center railings, that would be a MAJOR pain in the arse. (no leaks from them yet, knock on wood)

Check the window screws, they are notorious for coming loose and causing a leak.

Ya, I had the leaky windshield screws. First day I owned the 280DA, first night, it rained and water came in the aft cabin. Some of the screws weren't caulked and one or two were missing but an open hole was there.:smt101

I took the rub rail insert off the stbd side last year and did those screws and the rub rail screws. At the end of the season I got a leak on the port side I suspect is from the rub rail. I'm thinking of taking everything off the whole boat now and doing a thorough complete job like Jason did. What would you guys suggest for stripped out holes? It's not like you can ever get the old caulk out of them. Maybe just fill with epoxy as best you can?:huh:

 

[Kurt]

I would check the nav lights before I would tear apart the rub rails. If I remember correctly, several members had me convinced my leak was my rub rails when it turned out to be the nav light gaskets.