Raymarine Auto Pilot on the fritz

[Skybolt]

Thanks @SKybolt, I do have the Seatalk NG power switch on and there is another 12 volt power cable wired to the backbone. I viewed your post after I left the boat today so I did not have an opportunity to turn one of them off and see if it made a difference. I found the reference to the power connection to the ACU with the warning to only have one power source connected. The manual does not elude to the consequences of having the additional power supply connected. Also in the trouble shooting guide I saw no mention of a NO Pilot message. Thanks much for the link to the manual. I will continue to work the issue.

As mentioned, make sure that only one power source is powering the NG bus. If there is a hardwired power injector then I would make sure that switch on the ACU-200 is turned off. Also check the fuses both the 3A fuse for the SeaTalkNG bus and the 20A fuse for the ACU itself. If both power sources for the NG bus were on at the same time and the sources are from different batteries, a the unit may be damaged as a result.

 

[ttmott]

As mentioned, make sure that only one power source is powering the NG bus. If there is a hardwired power injector then I would make sure that switch on the ACU-200 is turned off. Also check the fuses both the 3A fuse for the SeaTalkNG bus and the 20A fuse for the ACU itself. If both power sources for the NG bus were on at the same time and the sources are from different batteries, a the unit may be damaged as a result.

He is getting power to the device as evidenced by the error message. So, it appears the NG network is powered.

 

[Skybolt]

He is getting power to the device as evidenced by the error message. So, it appears the NG network is powered.

It looks like only the pilot head is powered from the hardwired source of the bus, but the ACU may have a blow fuse stopping it from communicating. At least that's how I read all of this. I believe only the P70r will create the error if it cannot find the course computer. I have the same pilot head and will try to duplicate this tonight/tomorrow.

 

[Skybolt]

I am pretty sure it is a P70 panel display/control head and it has no data displayed, only a 'no pilot' message

This is coming from the P70r and is listed in the installation manual page 77.

Alarm name: No Pilot
Alarm type: Safety Alarm
Description: The Pilot controller has lost communications with the course computer; this alarm is generated by the Pilot controller

Action:
• Check Seatalk or Seatalkng bus wiring between SPX and Pilot controller.
• Check that the course computer is powered up.


.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

The network has two MFDs, Auto pilot, a second 70s display and two cameras and Fusion radio on it. The backbone is powered thru the navonics buss and thru the ACU 200. I will shut off the ACU 200 STKNG switch and see if that makes a difference. I seem to recall reading that that is bad to have two power sources but have not seen an explaination as to what happens. No fuses are blown and I don't recall when or how the switch was turned on. When I bought the boat the auto pilot worked. After the near sinking at Sea Trial, the rudder transducer for the auto pilot as well as the pump was submerged in salt water and several months later the auto pilot started getting funky. I replaced the rudder transducer but the auto pilot never did work after that?? Just now getting to the TS phase. Thanks for the support.
Rusty

 

[Skybolt]

The network has two MFDs, Auto pilot, a second 70s display and two cameras and Fusion radio on it. The backbone is powered thru the navonics buss and thru the ACU 200. I will shut off the ACU 200 STKNG switch and see if that makes a difference. I seem to recall reading that that is bad to have two power sources but have not seen an explaination as to what happens. No fuses are blown and I don't recall when or how the switch was turned on. When I bought the boat the auto pilot worked. After the near sinking at Sea Trial, the rudder transducer for the auto pilot as well as the pump was submerged in salt water and several months later the auto pilot started getting funky. I replaced the rudder transducer but the auto pilot never did work after that?? Just now getting to the TS phase. Thanks for the support.
Rusty

So that changes things a bit. I would get in touch with Raymarine and ask them to check out the ACU-200. You might want to pull the pump as well and see if they can test the two together. I am going to assume that the pump is shot and possibly took out the ACU-200 as well. That is just a guess since I can't look at these physically. The pump can be tested with direct power, but the power leads for the pump should be disconnected in the ACU first. Good luck Rusty.

 

[ttmott]

Rusty - on the NG network if there are two power sources and they are not isolated there can be a potential differential between the two and consequently the obligatory current flowing. It's that current flowing that can be detrimental to the data stream and if the current is significant, it can destroy the network wiring. It probably won't damage any of the devices however.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

This is coming from the P70r and is listed in the installation manual page 77.

Alarm name: No Pilot
Alarm type: Safety Alarm
Description: The Pilot controller has lost communications with the course computer; this alarm is generated by the Pilot controller

Action:
• Check Seatalk or Seatalkng bus wiring between SPX and Pilot controller.
• Check that the course computer is powered up.


.

Well I turned off the STNG power at the ACU200 but that did not change anything. I did power the buss down to do a hard reboot of the network as well. I opened a help ticket with the Raymarine techs so we will see what they say. My suspicion is that having power on both ends of the network may have damaged something in the ACU? Also since I am not registering any heading data I am wondering if I may have an issue with the EV1 AHRS unit.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

Rusty - on the NG network if there are two power sources and they are not isolated there can be a potential differential between the two and consequently the obligatory current flowing. It's that current flowing that can be detrimental to the data stream and if the current is significant, it can destroy the network wiring. It probably won't damage any of the devices however.

I do have a bag of odd Sea talk cables. Maybe I'll try to replace one at a time or ohm out the wires and see if I can come up with an anomaly.

 

[Skybolt]

Well I turned off the STNG power at the ACU200 but that did not change anything. I did power the buss down to do a hard reboot of the network as well. I opened a help ticket with the Raymarine techs so we will see what they say. My suspicion is that having power on both ends of the network may have damaged something in the ACU? Also since I am not registering any heading data I am wondering if I may have an issue with the EV1 AHRS unit.

I believe the ACU is not powering on or can't communicate on the SeaTalkNG bus. The EV1 is connected directly to the NG bus as well. When you speak with RM tech. you might want them to check that as well. I am not sure if the EV-1 needs to see the ACU or not to function properly or if the ACU turns the EV-1 on. RM tech can verify that for you.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

The ACU has a 20 amp fuse with an led next to it that indicates that it is on I assume. There is a 3 amp fuse at the STKNG plug as well which is good. Ill post the advice of RM guys

 

[Carpediem44DB]

Well I turned off the STNG power at the ACU200 but that did not change anything. I did power the buss down to do a hard reboot of the network as well. I opened a help ticket with the Raymarine techs so we will see what they say. My suspicion is that having power on both ends of the network may have damaged something in the ACU? Also since I am not registering any heading data I am wondering if I may have an issue with the EV1 AHRS unit.

In retrospect I should let the ACU power the STKNG buss and just unplug the second power source? Question is, is it ok to have an open port on the STKNG five port block? I will remove power cable and install a spur cable to the MFD which supplies GPS and Depth data. I figure I may as well keep throwing shit on the wall until something sticks or until the RM guys respond.

This is how my system is configured but with an extension of the backbone over to a second display,MFD and Fusion radio from the T that is terminated in this depiction.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

RM guys got back to me and just suggested replacing wires from the ACU to the network, said if that did not fix the issue I probably have a defective ACU. problem is that the wire from the ACU to the network block is a proprietary cable and I hate just throwing money in parts if I have no reason to suspect it being defective. I will ring it out with a multimeter.

 

[ocgrant]

RM guys got back to me and just suggested replacing wires from the ACU to the network, said if that did not fix the issue I probably have a defective ACU. problem is that the wire from the ACU to the network block is a proprietary cable and I hate just throwing money in parts if I have no reason to suspect it being defective. I will ring it out with a multimeter.

How far is #8 from #5? I that the ACU was just a seatalkNG cable? Black and white? I would eliminate the additional back bone set up if you can. My ACU powers my whole seatalk network so you could remove the 12v from 5 and use that port to test if it will reach

 

[Skybolt]

In retrospect I should let the ACU power the STKNG buss and just unplug the second power source? Question is, is it ok to have an open port on the STKNG five port block? I will remove power cable and install a spur cable to the MFD which supplies GPS and Depth data. I figure I may as well keep throwing shit on the wall until something sticks or until the RM guys respond.
View attachment 132180
This is how my system is configured but with an extension of the backbone over to a second display,MFD and Fusion radio from the T that is terminated in this depiction.

I would probably complicate this a bit from that diagram, but I would remove the power input (1) and put the ACU directly in that spot with the power switch on the ACU for the NG bus on. Remove the additional backbone cables and place a terminator in that spot. So now only the Autopilot will be on that 5 port block and should work independently of the rest, but this would be for testing.

If that works then I would put a power block after the autopilot, before the tee and then power the rest of the bus with the power connector you removed plugged into the tee. Then everything should work as it once did, but isolates the autopilot as it should be. That is how I have mine cabled up.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

How far is #8 from #5? I that the ACU was just a seatalkNG cable? Black and white? I would eliminate the additional back bone set up if you can. My ACU powers my whole seatalk network so you could remove the 12v from 5 and use that port to test if it will reach

That's what I tried this afternoon. I removed the power cable from the STKNG block and now have three spurs off of the block. one from the ACU, one from the EV1 and one to the P70r display. One end of the block has a terminal plug the other has begins the back bone to the MFDs and beyond. I have the STKNG network powered only by the ACU but still have NO Pilot message. I know the display sees the network and the 127e as the display shows speed values and depth. I think all is pointing to the ACU being defective or the STKNG cable to the ACU. Waiting to find out where to send the ACU to for bench check. I am wondering if a local installer has the capability to bench check or repair or does it have to go back to RM.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

I would probably complicate this a bit from that diagram, but I would remove the power input (1) and put the ACU directly in that spot with the power switch on the ACU for the NG bus on. Remove the additional backbone cables and place a terminator in that spot. So now only the Autopilot will be on that 5 port block and should work independently of the rest, but this would be for testing.

If that works then I would put a power block after the autopilot, before the tee and then power the rest of the bus with the power connector you removed plugged into the tee. Then everything should work as it once did, but isolates the autopilot as it should be. That is how I have mine cabled up.

Damn! I should have tried that when I was at the boat this afternoon! I am so obsessed with getting this solved that I have been driving 30 miles to the boat for the last three days to fiddle with this. Traffic is such a bear on the return trip at commute time I should have my head examined! My main question really is how much difference does it make where various cables are plugged into the net work. I can see that the order can be more efficient but would one order over the other actually keep data from getting to where it needs to be seen? I am strongly leaning to the ACU having a problem.

 

[Skybolt]

Rusty - The order and placement of the cables should have zero impact on anything except ease of troubleshooting and possibly powering sections of the network up separately. The only thing that is a concern is the cable runs and the total length of the network. There is basic rules to follow like no drop cable should be longer then 20' and total combined network length

As far as the data portion goes, all of the that is always connected even through power blocks. Each device is a high impedance output which means it is invisible to other devices and it's data is only seen when it transmits. Each device transmits data with a packet number and an instance number (Among other data) that each device filters on. All devices see all of the data packets all of the time as long as the network is balanced correctly. So the only thing that really matters when adding more devices is the power requirement and that is labeled in "Len", all devices have this labeled somewhere. 1 Len = 50mA so your 3A power supply from the ACU could conceivably support ~60 Len. Devices typically only draw 1-4 Len or <200mA.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

Thanks!
I heard back from RM, the tech suspects a faulty ACU at this point since I tested the various cable and power configurations. I guess I’ll send in the ACU and find out. I appreciate the guidance on this. I’ll post the ultimate resolution

 

[Tim Fila]

Is this the ACU?

If so, if it's compatible with your system, it's yours for shipping.

Tim