Radar Arch Speakers

[mddickens]

OK, next project...add rear facing speakers to the radar arch so people floating around behind the boat can hear the stereo without blasting anyone sitting in the cockpit at the same time.

My thoughts are to mount two wake board tower speakers (for example Bazooka MT6502CHW compression horn tubbies) inside the corners of the arch and either wire them so that both the existing arch speakers and the new speakers are "on" at the same time, or wire in a rotary "A-B" switch so only one pair play at a time.

Questions: Any thoughts or opinions on the speakers? What about my wiring scheme?

Thanks!

 

[At Ease]

I believe Hampton mounted some rear facing speakers on his 340, but can't remember if he mounted to the arch or another method. Have you tried a search?

 

[Russ Calasant]

I had a similar desire to focus some sound towards the rear of the boat. I just could not bring myself to mount unsightly pod speakers sticking out from the arch. So i went to a local stereo shop and had them fabricate beveled spacers that angled a pair of 6.5 JL Audio speakers toward aft. They covered them in whit marine vinyl and were inexpensive. An added benefit was that they did not require much depth so i used the access ports higher in the arch and saved those covers. Wiring them will depend on your amp. I used the original Clarion for a while until i upgraded to JL. I dropped the wires down To the existing Factory placed speakers I already swapped to JL and wired them In parallel. Just connecting the positive to positive and the negative to negative leads. This was an easy upgrade, dropping the impedance increased speaker output and the Clarion amp performed fine for a long loud season until i did the amp upgrades the following season.

 

[mddickens]

I believe Hampton mounted some rear facing speakers on his 340, but can't remember if he mounted to the arch or another method. Have you tried a search?

Yes, in fact I read Hampton's writeup about his Bose outdoor speakers and the impedance issue. I am just thinking that a marine speaker might be a better choice, but I'm certainly open to any ideas!

 

[mddickens]

I had a similar desire to focus some sound towards the rear of the boat. I just could not bring myself to mount unsightly pod speakers sticking out from the arch. So i went to a local stereo shop and had them fabricate beveled spacers that angled a pair of 6.5 JL Audio speakers toward aft. They covered them in whit marine vinyl and were inexpensive. An added benefit was that they did not require much depth so i used the access ports higher in the arch and saved those covers. Wiring them will depend on your amp. I used the original Clarion for a while until i upgraded to JL. I dropped the wires down To the existing Factory placed speakers I already swapped to JL and wired them In parallel. Just connecting the positive to positive and the negative to negative leads. This was an easy upgrade, dropping the impedance increased speaker output and the Clarion amp performed fine for a long loud season until i did the amp upgrades the following season.

Using a spacer is an interesting idea and sounds like even I could do that. Ok, that goes in the idea stack. Thanks!

 

[boltman]

I think I'd run a speaker Jack to the swim platform and have waterproof speakers int eh anchor locker ,so you can get them out when you want to use them and when not in use they aren't ugly speakers...Maybe even White Bose Outsoor speakers, You could install a small strap on them and snap them into place with an existing snap on the aft.

Just a small thought.

 

[Lake Erie Boater]

I have thought about somehow taking the bullet speakers and rigging them to somehow make use of the rod holders around the cockpit. Then the whole idea of where to store them when not in use kills that idea (along with a wife who says no way). :huh:

 

[skillz48047]

im going to be mounting a set of bazooka tubbies from my radar arch, they sell brackets that work nicely for a setup like that, and they are easily removable if you want to take them down.
ive had these speakers for 3 years and used them on my old 250 dancer i used to hang them from the camper top as it was rolled up, they sound great and project a far distance, great for swimming behind the boat etc....
but you will want a seperate amp for them to get their full potential......

 

[Bottom Line]

Here is a custom made box that was mounted to the arch on a 340DA. I thought it was a pretty cool looking set up. I don't know anything about price, but it probably isn't cheap.

Here is place at Lake of the Ozarks, that does a look of great looking installations....and they may have made this box.

http://www.wavesandwheels.net/

 

[mddickens]

Here is a custom made box that was mounted to the arch on a 340DA. I thought it was a pretty cool looking set up. I don't know anything about price, but it probably isn't cheap.

Here is place at Lake of the Ozarks, that does a look of great looking installations....and they may have made this box.

http://www.wavesandwheels.net/

Yes, they have a Quad Pod which is pretty interesting. I really just wanted to project sound to the rear though. I may call them and see if they have a "rear only" enclosure. Thanks!

 

[EarmarkMarine]

All speakers have a polar pattern that narrows considerably as you add distance, especially at higher frequencies. So if you want long distance projection then you have to think in terms of very directional and precisely aimed speakers.
Personnaly, I can't reconcile the bulk and blunt shape of a Bazooka on a Dancer.
On our site's installation gallery and in the Sea Ray gallery you will see numerous examples of white powdercoated spun aluminum bullet-shaped speaker pods. These come in 7 and 7.75" O.D.s. The larger is both wider and deeper. The 7" facilitates 6.5" speakers and the 7.75" facilitates 7.7" speakers. These pods can be mounted under the arch, under a hardtop or to the interior vertical portion of the arch for those sport cruisers that may have a shorter arch where headroom is a concern. Polymer contour blocks of the same bullet shape can be used to offset and correct for angles or adapt to curved mounting surfaces.
JL Audio has a 770 'T' coaxial that is designed specifically for the small displacement of tower pods. The midbass extension is going to be dramatically better than putting a coaming or infinite baffle-type speaker in a small pod.
Just another alternative for you.
David
www.earmarkmarine.com

 

[mddickens]

All speakers have a polar pattern that narrows considerably as you add distance, especially at higher frequencies. So if you want long distance projection then you have to think in terms of very directional and precisely aimed speakers.
Personnaly, I can't reconcile the bulk and blunt shape of a Bazooka on a Dancer.
On our site's installation gallery and in the Sea Ray gallery you will see numerous examples of white powdercoated spun aluminum bullet-shaped speaker pods. These come in 7 and 7.75" O.D.s. The larger is both wider and deeper. The 7" facilitates 6.5" speakers and the 7.75" facilitates 7.7" speakers. These pods can be mounted under the arch, under a hardtop or to the interior vertical portion of the arch for those sport cruisers that may have a shorter arch where headroom is a concern. Polymer contour blocks of the same bullet shape can be used to offset and correct for angles or adapt to curved mounting surfaces.
JL Audio has a 770 'T' coaxial that is designed specifically for the small displacement of tower pods. The midbass extension is going to be dramatically better than putting a coaming or infinite baffle-type speaker in a small pod.
Just another alternative for you.
David
www.earmarkmarine.com

I took a look at your site...nice installations! After thinking about it (and hearing no positive comments about the Bazookas), I think I will switch to a strategy that uses an outdoor speaker enclosure of some sort. I like the Speakercraft enclosures you show on the 360 Sundancer installation. Mounting them at the top of the arch will look nice and be an effective way to focus the sound.

The next question is one of power to the speakers. I would love to avoid having to do much re-wiring since it looks like a rabid monkey was let loose with a sealant gun behind the panels...major rats nest and PITA to run cabling...and I was hoping that I could just parallel off of the two existing Polk Momos that are already installed in the arches. What do you think?

 

[Lucky's]

For what its worth...I wanted sound facing rear as well. I got indoor/outdoor Bose speakers and mounted them facing rear under the gunnel's about even with the radar arch. The seats on both sides hide them to where you really can't see them at all, and the rear facing sound is GREAT! Just thought I'd throw that out there for ya! :thumbsup:

 

[EarmarkMarine]

mdd,
I can understand the resistance to adding another amplifier in that it may seem redundant, not to mention expensive. Here are a few considerations for you. Typical home type speakers such as Kliscpe, Boston Acoustics, Polk Audio, SpeakerCraft and Bose for example, are generally 8-ohms. In order to generate the amplifier's normal 4-ohm stereo rating we use a 4-channel amplifier bridged into two channels with an 8-ohm load to drive this scenerio. Plus it requires an inordinate amount of power to project away from the boat as compared to playing in a 5 to 7 foot proximity within the confines of the cockpit. Using a couple of DPDT switches to selectively go between the four cockpit speakers (two paralleled per side)and the external transom speakers will require a dedicated line level controller to compensate for the considerable gain difference when going from a 2-ohm to an 8-ohm load. I'm thinking that in the end after all the effort you may be dissappointed and will realize that a separate amplifier is required after all.
As for overhead mounting it does solve alot of issues. The speaker radiation when driven hard is isolated from the cockpit occupants and headroom is no longer a factor. However, if you have a protruding rear bimini it can actually shield those in the water just off the swimdeck from much of the sound.
Each boat is a little different in that one prescription does not fit all. So try and best anticipate as many factors as possible beforehand. Each boater has a different set of expectations for volume and range away from the boat. Some want a disco back there while others are looking for good sound without overdriving conversation.

David
www.earmarkmarine.com

 

[DustinL]

I took a look at your site...nice installations! After thinking about it (and hearing no positive comments about the Bazookas), I think I will switch to a strategy that uses an outdoor speaker enclosure of some sort. I like the Speakercraft enclosures you show on the 360 Sundancer installation. Mounting them at the top of the arch will look nice and be an effective way to focus the sound.

The next question is one of power to the speakers. I would love to avoid having to do much re-wiring since it looks like a rabid monkey was let loose with a sealant gun behind the panels...major rats nest and PITA to run cabling...and I was hoping that I could just parallel off of the two existing Polk Momos that are already installed in the arches. What do you think?

Personally I don't run anything parallel like that. It may look like a PITA but with a snake it really isn't that bad. I custom fabbed spacers for my arch 6 1/2 Clarion components and re ran new wires for all of it (due to the shotty origianal). With arch lights and radar,GPS in the way was not all that bad just go with patience. I don't like to rob any sound from any speaker so each one has its own set of wires (four sets per side and in lumex). I still am in the process as to adding more sound right now at 10 speakers in cockpit with 2 amps. You know the louder the better right? Good luck with your set up I wish I could run some speakers in the top of the arch just won't go with my set up and don't want the head smashing...

 

[mddickens]

Personally I don't run anything parallel like that. It may look like a PITA but with a snake it really isn't that bad. I custom fabbed spacers for my arch 6 1/2 Clarion components and re ran new wires for all of it (due to the shotty origianal). With arch lights and radar,GPS in the way was not all that bad just go with patience. I don't like to rob any sound from any speaker so each one has its own set of wires (four sets per side and in lumex). I still am in the process as to adding more sound right now at 10 speakers in cockpit with 2 amps. You know the louder the better right? Good luck with your set up I wish I could run some speakers in the top of the arch just won't go with my set up and don't want the head smashing...

Thanks...what I may do is run it parallel to see what it sounds like and if it doesn't sound good, then another amp and wiring will happen. I know this will be anathema to many people, but I'm not totally concerned with having the absolute best sound (I'm deaf in one ear anyway with HF hearing loss in the other), but we want to be able to hear it aft of the boat. Another option is to install an A-B switch so that I can control which set of speakers gets all of the power from those channels.

 

[DustinL]

Now the A-B switch is a good idea. In my past I have seen some amps get fried for to much load on them. That is the only reason I don't run it that way...but hey a test never hurt just don't cross wires will be replacing alot that you don't want to. Best of luck and I hope the easy route works out for you.

 

[mddickens]

mdd,
I can understand the resistance to adding another amplifier in that it may seem redundant, not to mention expensive. Here are a few considerations for you. Typical home type speakers such as Kliscpe, Boston Acoustics, Polk Audio, SpeakerCraft and Bose for example, are generally 8-ohms. In order to generate the amplifier's normal 4-ohm stereo rating we use a 4-channel amplifier bridged into two channels with an 8-ohm load to drive this scenerio. Plus it requires an inordinate amount of power to project away from the boat as compared to playing in a 5 to 7 foot proximity within the confines of the cockpit. Using a couple of DPDT switches to selectively go between the four cockpit speakers (two paralleled per side)and the external transom speakers will require a dedicated line level controller to compensate for the considerable gain difference when going from a 2-ohm to an 8-ohm load. I'm thinking that in the end after all the effort you may be dissappointed and will realize that a separate amplifier is required after all.
As for overhead mounting it does solve alot of issues. The speaker radiation when driven hard is isolated from the cockpit occupants and headroom is no longer a factor. However, if you have a protruding rear bimini it can actually shield those in the water just off the swimdeck from much of the sound.
Each boat is a little different in that one prescription does not fit all. So try and best anticipate as many factors as possible beforehand. Each boater has a different set of expectations for volume and range away from the boat. Some want a disco back there while others are looking for good sound without overdriving conversation.

David
www.earmarkmarine.com

Thanks David

I would put us in the latter category of not wanting to overdrive conversation. You've given me lots to digest and research. I'll report back to everyone what I decided to do.

Thanks to all!

 

[EarmarkMarine]

If you have the little two-channel Marine Audio amplifier in there now it is rated at a 4-ohm load although it is frequently run at 2-ohms by factory and frequently has problems too. If you drop it lower it will be toast in no time.
If for instance, you had the larger 4-channel amplifier running a sub and four satellites then it is already operating at 2-ohms stereo on the highpass channels and will not accept another speaker in parallel without serious issues to follow.
If you tie a higher impedance speaker in parallel with a lower impedance speaker then an inordinate amount of power will flow to the lower impedance. This means that the external speakers with the most demanding job will get far less power than the cockpit speakers.
Its either got to be an A/B switching scheme or another dedicated amplifier.
Sorry, no shortcuts.

David
www.earmarkmarine.com

 

[mddickens]

If you have the little two-channel Marine Audio amplifier in there now it is rated at a 4-ohm load although it is frequently run at 2-ohms by factory and frequently has problems too. If you drop it lower it will be toast in no time.
If for instance, you had the larger 4-channel amplifier running a sub and four satellites then it is already operating at 2-ohms stereo on the highpass channels and will not accept another speaker in parallel without serious issues to follow.
If you tie a higher impedance speaker in parallel with a lower impedance speaker then an inordinate amount of power will flow to the lower impedance. This means that the external speakers with the most demanding job will get far less power than the cockpit speakers.
Its either got to be an A/B switching scheme or another dedicated amplifier.
Sorry, no shortcuts.

David
www.earmarkmarine.com

I have a Clarion APX-480M with 4 satellites and 1 sub-woofer. I was wondering about how they set up the channels to drive all of that and was planning to study how Sea Ray setup the existing amp to figure that one out.

I actually like the A/B switch scenario because it allows me to control how the sound broadcasts. During the day, we could have it aimed aft through the arch speakers and at night when we're sitting on the boat and want the music lower and softer, we could go back to the existing arch speakers. Of course, I would have to find a marine grade A/B switch and so far no luck on that. I could use an outdoor switch, but somehow the "Decora" look just doesn't seem right for a boat!