Quality

[RidgeRunner]

QUALITY.
First, let me state the not too obvious.
I've had 30+ years training with the Dept. of Defense.
From Inside Nuclear Machinist, Nuclear Inspector, to Quality Assurance of Nuclear Training.
Nuclear Propulsion of Naval ships is Not a joke.
Yes, maybe I take a little of my training and apply it to other aspects of life. Further, my association with the mechanics of HONDA Motorcycles has played a part in my expectations as well.
Lastly, I'm new to boating and trying to adapt to the boating way without being overly critical. (obviously, I suck at that)
Quality- it means different things to different people.

Introducing SEA RAY Boats.- (For the record, I love my boat!)
Boy do they look pretty on the outside ! But you take a cover here and there off and get back to me.....
As I get more acquainted with my vessel, SOME OF THE THINGS I SEE MAKES ME WONDER !!!.
*First off- Who the hell cut the access holes???? Every one, from the dash cutouts, glove box, to speaker holes, etc. APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN CUT BY A 5 yr. OLD. Who was drunk.. I almost took pictures when I had it apart.
Circular saws ??? Who cuts holes using a skill type saw, with overcut marks at each corner, THEN, you came back and "fine-tuned" the fit with another cut, uneven as can be. Not square, not sanded, rough glass edges.
*2nd. Screws directly into fiberglass. Would the weight, or cost, be so great to not add a clip to engage the fastener? How many times can the fiberglass thread be expected to be re-used??. Even my aftermarket replacement speakers came with "nuts" for the fasteners to mate with. THRU the fiberglass, not screwed directly into it. But it get betters, cause the "factory holes" were so far off even the clips wouldn't fit. Ug.
*3rd.- Parts. I guess I'm spoiled. Parts are still available for a 1973 Honda mini-bike, directly from Honda. Sea-Ray parts??? Did you try Flounder Pounder..... really? I suggest you get spares when you take delivery, as they won't be available next year....
*4th- Suppliers- Is Sea-Ray responsible for anything other than the hull??. You need a gasket for you porthole?, call the company that WE bought it from. It seems like they have washed their hands of it all.(example- Honda's use Yuasa brand batteries. If you have a problem w/ it, you bring it to Honda, not Yuasa. Same for the tires, ignition, or any other part that CAME ON THE BIKE.)
*5th Structural- IS Sea-Ray's measuring device a wooden, Smokey the Bear ruler??? With graduations every half inch ??
The vertical boards supporting the deck floor are not even CLOSE to being supportive.
There's a 3/4 inch difference in two boards, supposedly supporting the same deck flooring ???
3/4 of an inch is like a MILE. Who can get away with the type of product ?
*6th- S/R has been building boats since, what? 1958 ? So, that inlet intake cooling line? From the outdrive- Thru transom. I'd like to meet the guy that signed off on that....
*7th Engineering- Under my cuddy's entrance steps, below the trashcan, is a bildge pump. In order for it to work, water would have to flood the cabin a foot deep or more. Even my mechanic said that was a poor location


Glancing over at the "let's see your cars" thread, (nice cars!) had me wondering if I was the only one who is a little disappointed
In the S/R quality??

Am I wanting to much?, maybe I don't understand the economics of boat building ?. Maybe there's a good reason someone is using a skill saw and roughing a hole in lieu of a jig saw type device for a precise hole.?
(I have to wonder if a .... say, a YAMAHA jet boat a friend recently purchased has a opening cut by the same 5 years old who did mine)
Rant over, let's splash this puppy

 

[blaster]

Firs of all, thank you for your service. Without the Patriots serving at the DoD, armed forces, police, and emergency services, we wouldn't have a country.

As far as the behind the scenes quality, out of sight out of mind. If it makes you feel better, many boat builders are worse. Even a custom boat like a Hinckley isn't built perfectly pretty behind the scenes. Try not to let it bother the perfectionist in you. It's really only a problem when she starts to fall apart.

 

[Tonka Boater]

First off... I love Sea Ray boats too so my commentary is not a slam against them. With that said, I agree 100% with you. I bought both my past Sea Ray's brand new (2008 240SD and 2008 280DA) and I was a little dismayed with some of the lack of attention to detail.

The first thing I did with both boats after delivery was give them a good cleaning and detailing. You'd think this would easy for a new boat. My goodness, the amount of sawdust and leftover screws, wire scraps, screw caps, wire nuts, etc. was shocking. I went through every nook and cranny and my shop vac sounded like I was vacuuming loose nuts and bolts. Not what you'd expect from a new boat.

The areas of the compartments that you could see by glancing looked nice and finished but as I wiped down the areas you could feel but not see, I got splinters in my hands from unfinished fiberglass. Also, I had a speaker with a wire that was disconnected and I agree...when I removed the speaker, the hole looked like it was cut by someone in a junior high shop class...well, maybe not that good.

I respectfully disagree with Blaster, other boat manufacturers have better attention to detail. Chris-Craft for one, Formula for another. And Cobalt...not saying it because I've owned two of them. My current boat is a '97 Cobalt and I'm still impressed with the build quality and the quality of the components. I went through this boat with a fine toothed comb when I bought it...dang, it's nice. Everything is done to perfection in my opinion.

"It's really only a problem when she starts to fall apart." What? Sounds like the answer my car dealer gave me recently. I bought a brand new 2016 Yukon Denali last September. I got home and one of the rear seats rattled like it was going to fall apart...enough to make you insane driving down a smooth road. The dealer told me to turn up the radio so I couldn't hear it!?!?!?!? Needless to say, they fixed it.

 

[NotHerDecision]

I think there is a large difference in a custom built boat and a car with 1000's of checkpoints and quality control measures as they are mass produced. I also think the holes that are not even do reflect some craftsmanship but frankly it doesn't matter to most and to make all of that perfect would likely add 1000's of dollars to the purchase price to which consumers are not inclined to pay for. In other words, would you pay an extra 5000 on your 280 so the speak holes were perfect where you will likely never see? If so then searay can invest in the tooling to make that happen but we all know the real answer.

Now the left behind fiberglass and screws... to me this is a dealer issue and believe me you paid for this under dealer prep, destination, freight and delivery. So I would go right back to the dealer on this one and have them make it right or refund the prep(that will never happen btw)

It's just my opinion but in my industry I hear this stuff all the time and my typical answer is what would you be willing to pay to have that happen. 99% of the time it's nothing it should be included.


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[Henry Boyd]

I'm a bit surprised by your comments and their relation to "quality" given your background. Speaking now as someone who has a formal education in Quality Systems (Master Degree concentration in Non Destructive Testing), you seemed to have missed the point that Quality is about consistency of meeting the design specification and not about the level of specification, value of materials used, or finesse of manufacturing execution. For the folks who are not aware, the use and definition of the word 'quality' to describe something as used in common language is not the same, when applied tin a technical environment. A common example is that a Rolex watch is said to be of better quality than a Timex in everyday discussion. However, when the word quality is meant from a technical point of view, it turns out that the Timex may score higher because a quartz Timex is a more accurate timepiece than a mechanical Rolex (or least in the case of my recently Rolex refurbished Rolex Submariner!). I once attended an ISO 9000 seminar where a speaker from Raytheon made the comment if a company designed lifejackets using concrete instead of foam, documented that, built to spec consistently, and made no false flotation claims, the process would qualify as meeting ISO 9000, and of course have met both QC and QA requirements.

Now to address some of your issues:

Access holes, does the process create any structural, or maintenance issues? Are they covered by some item installed over them and not visible? If the answers are 'NO' and 'YES' respectively, whats the big deal other than it offends your personal view of aesthetics.? Keep in mind a Sea Ray is a production boat and making access holes that are neat, tidy, and symmetrical and to a closer tolerance takes more time, that in turn costs more money. You want perfection at all levels, spend a few hundred thousand to a million on a Hinckley, or other top grade custom built yacht. More seriously,your background is focused on a tight tolerance world, where in some cases cost is not an object. After all who wants a leaky nuke?

Ditto for screws to fiberglass, considering most are intended to never be removed, and if properly matched to hole size provide a secure fit.

Parts Good point, BUT, how many million Honda bikes have been built over the past 30-40 years, many still using the same base parts? I'm just guessing, but I would imagine that the total lifetime production of the 280 DA (one of the more prolific models) dies not top 50,000 units. Kind of a significant difference in potential markets for used parts don't you think? Also in your world government procurement contracts frequently contain requirements for parts support well beyond the normal useful life of the asset. And the government pays extra for that service.

Suppliers - Duh, you do realize that Sea Ray and their dealers are required by accounting requirements (fiduciary responsibility) to place a markup to cover overhead and profit on all pass through items. Thus giving you the access to their suppliers, with whom they have purchasing agreements, allows you to get a better price. Oh and by the way, that battery you buy from Honda contains a markup, so you probably could do better by going to NAPA.....

Structural - Sorry I can't address that one, other than to say that after eleven years of ownership of what is now a 15 year old 280, I've never seen any structural issues.

Inlet cooling line. Man you aren't kidding, a blind jacka$$ designed that set up. But focus your ire on Mercruiser, its their design and production. As an FYI, if you are having cooling issues, consider adding a through hull raw water pick up and by passing the cheesey plumbing. We had issues early on with the same thing and our final solution was to add a through hull and strainer. Added side benefit, you can also build in a port to connect a fresh water engine flush.

Bilge pump location - Are you sure this is intended as a 'bilge pump'? Our 280 (and many other DAs) have a similar setup. Yes, a pump that is used for bilge water removal is installed, but the purpose of the pump is to eject run off water from the shower in the head.

For a commercial product, I'd have to say the SRs are built with a high degree of quality from both the technical and common language definitions. So yes in the comparison between the rarified world of nuclear power plant design and construction and production recreational boat standards, a Sea Ray seems inadequate. However, when comparing a Sea Ray to a Bayliner (or Baysinker as Wayne would have said) the Sea Ray is head and shoulders better. Im not professing SR is perfect, they do indeed have feet of clay sometimes, but all in all Sea Ray is a very good product.

So yah you are being a little over critical, but don't stop because every so often a fresh set of eyes unused to the status quo can be a good thing.

Henry

 

[fwebster]

I think your expectations are a tad high for a production boat. If you expect the dash or speaker cut outs to be laid out with a micrometer and cut with surgical precision only to be covered up by a dash or side panel then you should take up flying instead of boating as a hobby.

Parts availability isn't a new issue. The facts are these: Sea Ray cannot possibly stock the components parts for every assembly they purchase from a vendor for their products. Would you expect them to stock a #3 rod bearing for an 8.0KW Westerbeke Generator? Of course not. As far as obsoleting parts goes, there is no grand design to screw owners here. Sea Ray doesn't not stock components for out of production boats. The state of Florida isn't big enough to hold all the out of production molds or the parts inventory you seem to expect. Those of us with older boats have learned how to source replacement parts quickly and easily from reliable sources......sometimes the local SR dealer, sometimes other vendors.

Your Honda/Yusa battery example isn't a parallel either. If you have a battery problem, you do not take it to Honda....you take it to a Honda DEALER. Sea Ray has dealers who can help you with anything wrong with your boat.

Add clips to hold screws put into fiberglas? That is the very last thing I want on my boat. Can you imagine the grief you'd have trying to remove 24 screws in dash panel set with t-nuts or screw clips after about 20 years exposure to salt air.......that is 175,000+ hours of sitting in salt laiden air......all with no access to the back side of the panel? No thank you.

The floor supports you mention that don't reach the floor? Did you condsider that what you are calling sloppy floor supports may in fact be hull stiffeners placed in the structure to add support for the bottom and were never intended to be to support the floor at all?

These puppies are production boats assembled by human hands. They are not and never will be perfect, so, enjoy them for what they are and move on.

 

[Tonka Boater]

I think there is a large difference in a custom built boat and a car with 1000's of checkpoints and quality control measures as they are mass produced. I also think the holes that are not even do reflect some craftsmanship but frankly it doesn't matter to most and to make all of that perfect would likely add 1000's of dollars to the purchase price to which consumers are not inclined to pay for. In other words, would you pay an extra 5000 on your 280 so the speak holes were perfect where you will likely never see? If so then searay can invest in the tooling to make that happen but we all know the real answer.

Now the left behind fiberglass and screws... to me this is a dealer issue and believe me you paid for this under dealer prep, destination, freight and delivery. So I would go right back to the dealer on this one and have them make it right or refund the prep(that will never happen btw)

It's just my opinion but in my industry I hear this stuff all the time and my typical answer is what would you be willing to pay to have that happen. 99% of the time it's nothing it should be included.

I guess my argument would be this... $100,000 is A LOT of money no matter how you cut it. That's the amount I paid for my 2008 280DA. When a person decides to write a check for $100k for a boat, you expect to get a high quality product with attention to detail at all levels. I did not finance my 280DA and it was a significant decision for me spend that amount of money. The left behind parts indicate that the workers did not take time to clean up after they finished their part of the build process...sloppy workmanship. The lack of attention is unacceptable for this amount of money ESPECIALLY for a custom built boat.

Let's say you commissioned a shop to custom build or restore a classic car for you for $100k. Would you be happy if they delivered a product with loose screws, poor paint and lackluster attention to detail? You would never accept delivery if your custom car had the lack of attention to detail that my custom boat had. Sea Ray is not the only manufacturer of boats...buyers have a lot of options when they decide to part ways with $100k.

I understand that cars and boats are completely different in all ways and you can't compare the engineering and manufacturing of a car to a boat. BUT, why do boats get a free pass on workmanship? The amount of money is the same whether it's a car or a boat. I don't care how it's built...it should be dang near perfect for that amount of money.

 

[mobocracy]

I think your expectations are a tad high for a production boat. If you expect the dash or speaker cut outs to be laid out with a micrometer and cut with surgical precision only to be covered up by a dash or side panel then you should take up flying instead of boating as a hobby.

Actually, I'd be kind of surprised if common dash openings were hand-cut at all. I'd kind of expect them to get the dash panels pre-cut or with molded-in openings for the most common layouts. If they needed to be cut at the factory for a custom-order option, I'd expect them to be cut with a jig and a rotary cutting tool, not so much for the "neatness" but for ease of cutting and making that step as simple and fast as possible to perform on the line.

Boats are kind of funny things because at the end of the day, Sea Ray is more system integrator than anything. AFAIK they only really "make" the hull and perhaps cabinetry and pretty much everything else is bought from the usual suppliers and much of it isn't custom at all, but stock parts. But I think this is true for pretty much all boats. And I think we actually benefit from this because it makes it a lot easier to buy replacement parts.

The place where they could shine if they wanted to is in ease of maintenance and repairability. Make the design as easy to maintain as possible by making access to components easy -- if they have to be buried behind or under something, make those things easy to take apart or remove.

 

[wrvond]

If you really want something to rant about, buy a fifth wheel or travel trailer!
I have a relative that owns a Bayliner that is equivalent in size to my Sea Ray. Where my boat has stainless steel deck gear, his has chrome plated zinc. Where mine has a marine porcelain toilet with pump out, his has a plastic porta potti he has to hand carry off the boat to empty. The vinyl on mine looks better and feels thicker too.
I do think Sea Ray could benefit by using hole saws and routers instead of reciprocating blade type tools in production, though.

 

[CliffA]

man, you got brass balls.....I can't imagine joining a Sea Ray forum and after only a couple of months of being a member bashing the quality of the brand without really taking the time to research the subject first....

I have a slightly different view point about quality....I think you have to judge the so called 'quality' of all similar items in a particular market segment against each other...not against the level we wish it would be....

let's talk about recreational boats....I believe there is supporting evidence and personal experiences that will back up claims that the build quality of Sea Ray boats is superior to most (but not all) of the manufacturers that have products that play in this market segment....I have done a great deal of research dealing with the perceived 'quality' of recreational boats and Sea Ray always comes out near the top....why do you think they have sold more boats world wide than any other manufacturer?....it is because they build a good boat for this market segment and at an acceptable price point....

you cannot compare Sea Ray boats to the custom built boats....it is just not a fair comparison...custom boats are built one by one and time is taken to pay attention to details like speaker hole cut outs....production boats like Sea Ray cannot afford to take this time and attention to detail...if they did the number of boats they could produce in a given time would be reduced dramatically and the cost would sky rocket....this would price their boats out of this market segment.....the craftsmen do not work for free.....every additional hour they spend building a boat is time the customer will eventually pay for...

I have a very different opinion of the Sea Ray quality and longevity that comes with high quality....my boat is 16 years old and every time I board her I am impressed with its condition....I have seen other manufacturer's boats similar in age as mine that are in no where near the condition my boat is in....

I think other recreational boat manufacturers also make high quality boats in this market segment....some have already been named such as Cobalt and Formula.....

are Sea Ray boats perfect?......hell no, but for the market segment they are intended for they are pretty damn good....

cliff

 

[Tonka Boater]

you cannot compare Sea Ray boats to the custom built boats....

I've been using custom built and hand built synonymously. Each one is assembled by hand. Not truly a one-off, custom build but it's not built by robots.

 

[CaptRonn]

Agree with the OP about Sea Ray "quality" (or lack thereof).

 

[blaster]

I respectfully disagree with Blaster, other boat manufacturers have better attention to detail. Chris-Craft for one, Formula for another. And Cobalt...not saying it because I've owned two of them. My current boat is a '97 Cobalt and I'm still impressed with the build quality and the quality of the components. I went through this boat with a fine toothed comb when I bought it...dang, it's nice. Everything is done to perfection in my opinion.

"It's really only a problem when she starts to fall apart." What? Sounds like the answer my car dealer gave me recently. I bought a brand new 2016 Yukon Denali last September. I got home and one of the rear seats rattled like it was going to fall apart...enough to make you insane driving down a smooth road. The dealer told me to turn up the radio so I couldn't hear it!?!?!?!? Needless to say, they fixed it.

There are more builders than Cobalt, Chris Craft, and Formula. Way more. I never said that SeaRay is perfect. As far as the problem when she falls apart thing, it was a joke. Other than my cooler my SeaRay has held up well. Besids, good help is hard to find. It's as good as the people building it. Sometimes, they put out quality, sometimes they put out lemon's.

I can understand wanting a perfect boat when you drop $100,000k so no hard feelings.

 

[fwebster]

Actually, I'd be kind of surprised if common dash openings were hand-cut at all. I'd kind of expect them to get the dash panels pre-cut or with molded-in openings for the most common layouts. If they needed to be cut at the factory for a custom-order option, I'd expect them to be cut with a jig and a rotary cutting tool, not so much for the "neatness" but for ease of cutting and making that step as simple and fast as possible to perform on the line.

Boats are kind of funny things because at the end of the day, Sea Ray is more system integrator than anything. AFAIK they only really "make" the hull and perhaps cabinetry and pretty much everything else is bought from the usual suppliers and much of it isn't custom at all, but stock parts. But I think this is true for pretty much all boats. And I think we actually benefit from this because it makes it a lot easier to buy replacement parts.

The place where they could shine if they wanted to is in ease of maintenance and repairability. Make the design as easy to maintain as possible by making access to components easy -- if they have to be buried behind or under something, make those things easy to take apart or remove.

As a point of clarification, the dash-cut out we are talking bout is not the wood grain panel the panel the gauges, electronics, switches, etc sit on, but rather the fiberglass dash that the wood grain panels mount to. Because the designers have no way to know exactly what electronics and gauge layout will be used, the mold for the helm panel is flt with and cored with a piece of 3/4" marine plywood behind it. The poor cutting the OP described is where the factory has cut out a rough opening behind the gauges/electronics, etc. The actual wood grain gauge panels are laser cut precisely for the equipment being installed on each boat.

Ease of maintenance is a common issue the designers must deal with. Buyers of a 30-32 ft boats expect and demand the same features and creature comforts that owners of 45-50 ft. boats have. The designers and engineers have to balance the equipment we have all come to demand on our boats with how to fit it all in the space available and how to access it for repair/replacement. It is a tough balancing act and some of us feel that there are 12 lbs of potatoes in our 10 lb bag.

 

[JVM225]

I owned my last Sea Ray for many years and had my hand on every accessible inch of that boat, and some that weren't all that accessible. I'm far from a marine surveyor or pro marine mechanic but I am mechanically inclined enough to do 90% of what needs to be done on my boats and also have nearly half a century working on cars and other mechanical things.
Overall, when compared to other production boats in this price range the Sea Rays stand up pretty well against them in overall quality. That's why I recently bought another one.
I do agree with some of your points though. More specifically about accessibility of wear or maintenance items, and availability of parts for older models.
Accessibility, or lack of, to items that you need to get to as time goes on is kind of necessary in most cases. Most likely caused by cramming the features and comforts most consumers expect in to a production boat. Therefore, mostly unavoidable. I've cursed and spilled as much blood in the bilge while trying to get to something as anyone, but can usually rationalize the logic in calmer moments.
Availability of spare parts is also somewhat understandable. I've never been able to get anything I need from Flounder Pounder myself, but other than the boat itself, most things that are in it are made by companies other than Sea Ray and are readily available through 3rd party sources. While it would be nice if Sea Ray's parts manuals listed those manufacturers and part numbers they are usually identified easily enough with a little research. Other hard items that Sea Ray makes in house are indeed nearly impossible to come by after a few years, but then again most of those rarely need replacement and when they do they can usually be fixed or replaced by a local craftsman. It would be great if Sea Ray kept a stock of those spare parts for decades, but it is probably financially unrealistic. Sea Ray is no different than manufacturers of many production products in this regard.
Like many, I've been frustrated several times by not being able to get my hands on an obsolete part but with a little research, creativity, and information from sites like this I've always been able to come up with a way around things.
After having owned boats for decades that were made by Sea Ray and 3 other manufacturers, and after helping friends work on other brand boats over many years I'm very happy with Sea Ray. I've also found their customer service and support to be really good.

 

[joeyleggz]

Most production boat manufacturers use the same parts it's no different then a computer that you buy whether it be a dell ,gateway, Apple ,Acer or hp..... 95% of what is inside is the same across them all sea ray just assembles the parts as it has been said in these posts you can look at anything high production low production and find hidden gremlins anywhere to get a level that the original poster seems to be looking for you definitely have to go custom where you can expect everything to be gone over with A fine tooth comb for that kind of quality my guess is you're going to be 1,000,000+ on that


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[fwebster]

I owned my last Sea Ray for many years and had my hand on every accessible inch of that boat, and some that weren't all that accessible. I'm far from a marine surveyor or pro marine mechanic but I am mechanically inclined enough to do 90% of what needs to be done on my boats and also have nearly half a century working on cars and other mechanical things.
Overall, when compared to other production boats in this price range the Sea Rays stand up pretty well against them in overall quality. That's why I recently bought another one.
I do agree with some of your points though. More specifically about accessibility of wear or maintenance items, and availability of parts for older models.
Accessibility, or lack of, to items that you need to get to as time goes on is kind of necessary in most cases. Most likely caused by cramming the features and comforts most consumers expect in to a production boat. Therefore, mostly unavoidable. I've cursed and spilled as much blood in the bilge while trying to get to something as anyone, but can usually rationalize the logic in calmer moments.
Availability of spare parts is also somewhat understandable. I've never been able to get anything I need from Flounder Pounder myself, but other than the boat itself, most things that are in it are made by companies other than Sea Ray and are readily available through 3rd party sources. While it would be nice if Sea Ray's parts manuals listed those manufacturers and part numbers they are usually identified easily enough with a little research. Other hard items that Sea Ray makes in house are indeed nearly impossible to come by after a few years, but then again most of those rarely need replacement and when they do they can usually be fixed or replaced by a local craftsman. It would be great if Sea Ray kept a stock of those spare parts for decades, but it is probably financially unrealistic. Sea Ray is no different than manufacturers of many production products in this regard.
Like many, I've been frustrated several times by not being able to get my hands on an obsolete part but with a little research, creativity, and information from sites like this I've always been able to come up with a way around things.
After having owned boats for decades that were made by Sea Ray and 3 other manufacturers, and after helping friends work on other brand boats over many years I'm very happy with Sea Ray. I've also found their customer service and support to be really good.

There is a reason that the vendors #'s and identification are not in the parts list made available to owners. Sea Ray has dealer agreements that protect the dealer from competition from Sea Ray and vendors on parts. Similarly, Sea Ray has master vendor agreements that prohibit vendors from selling directly to customers. That is the price we all pay for having a dealer network accessible to us for parts, service, warranty repairs, etc. nearly everywhere we may be in the U.S. Other brands who sell thru brokers and marinas tell their customers to go find a place and have your boat fixed and we will send the bill to the factory for you.......(and, we will try to say nice things to you when you call asking where your money is.)

The truth of the matter is that once your boat reaches about 10 years old, the dealer and Sea Ray are of little value to you for parts because the parts list will give you "NLA" (no longer available) for one several reasons....... Sea Ray doesn't stock items no longer used in production; Sea Ray has changed vendors and they don't buy the item you need from that vendor any longer, so it is in the system under a new SKU number; The vendor no longer produces that particular item. Some of us have been at this stuff a while and we know who most of the vendors are and dependable sources for parts. When you can't find something, post a question here and I'd bet you get an answer and a source quicker than Marine Max will get it for you.

 

[Woody]

QUALITY.
First, let me state the not too obvious.
I've had 30+ years training with the Dept. of Defense.
From Inside Nuclear Machinist, Nuclear Inspector, to Quality Assurance of Nuclear Training.
Nuclear Propulsion of Naval ships is Not a joke.
Yes, maybe I take a little of my training and apply it to other aspects of life. Further, my association with the mechanics of HONDA Motorcycles has played a part in my expectations as well.
Lastly, I'm new to boating and trying to adapt to the boating way without being overly critical. (obviously, I suck at that)
Quality- it means different things to different people.

Introducing SEA RAY Boats.- (For the record, I love my boat!)
Boy do they look pretty on the outside ! But you take a cover here and there off and get back to me.....
As I get more acquainted with my vessel, SOME OF THE THINGS I SEE MAKES ME WONDER !!!.
*First off- Who the hell cut the access holes???? Every one, from the dash cutouts, glove box, to speaker holes, etc. APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN CUT BY A 5 yr. OLD. Who was drunk.. I almost took pictures when I had it apart.
Circular saws ??? Who cuts holes using a skill type saw, with overcut marks at each corner, THEN, you came back and "fine-tuned" the fit with another cut, uneven as can be. Not square, not sanded, rough glass edges.
*2nd. Screws directly into fiberglass. Would the weight, or cost, be so great to not add a clip to engage the fastener? How many times can the fiberglass thread be expected to be re-used??. Even my aftermarket replacement speakers came with "nuts" for the fasteners to mate with. THRU the fiberglass, not screwed directly into it. But it get betters, cause the "factory holes" were so far off even the clips wouldn't fit. Ug.
*3rd.- Parts. I guess I'm spoiled. Parts are still available for a 1973 Honda mini-bike, directly from Honda. Sea-Ray parts??? Did you try Flounder Pounder..... really? I suggest you get spares when you take delivery, as they won't be available next year....
*4th- Suppliers- Is Sea-Ray responsible for anything other than the hull??. You need a gasket for you porthole?, call the company that WE bought it from. It seems like they have washed their hands of it all.(example- Honda's use Yuasa brand batteries. If you have a problem w/ it, you bring it to Honda, not Yuasa. Same for the tires, ignition, or any other part that CAME ON THE BIKE.)
*5th Structural- IS Sea-Ray's measuring device a wooden, Smokey the Bear ruler??? With graduations every half inch ??
The vertical boards supporting the deck floor are not even CLOSE to being supportive.
There's a 3/4 inch difference in two boards, supposedly supporting the same deck flooring ???
3/4 of an inch is like a MILE. Who can get away with the type of product ?
*6th- S/R has been building boats since, what? 1958 ? So, that inlet intake cooling line? From the outdrive- Thru transom. I'd like to meet the guy that signed off on that....
*7th Engineering- Under my cuddy's entrance steps, below the trashcan, is a bildge pump. In order for it to work, water would have to flood the cabin a foot deep or more. Even my mechanic said that was a poor location


Glancing over at the "let's see your cars" thread, (nice cars!) had me wondering if I was the only one who is a little disappointed
In the S/R quality??

Am I wanting to much?, maybe I don't understand the economics of boat building ?. Maybe there's a good reason someone is using a skill saw and roughing a hole in lieu of a jig saw type device for a precise hole.?
(I have to wonder if a .... say, a YAMAHA jet boat a friend recently purchased has a opening cut by the same 5 years old who did mine)
Rant over, let's splash this puppy

The work of a drunk 5yo...I don't think so, more like a drunk beaver was gnawing on things. :smt043

 

[mobocracy]

There is a reason that the vendors #'s and identification are not in the parts list made available to owners. Sea Ray has dealer agreements that protect the dealer from competition from Sea Ray and vendors on parts. Similarly, Sea Ray has master vendor agreements that prohibit vendors from selling directly to customers. That is the price we all pay for having a dealer network accessible to us for parts, service, warranty repairs, etc. nearly everywhere we may be in the U.S. Other brands who sell thru brokers and marinas tell their customers to go find a place and have your boat fixed and we will send the bill to the factory for you.......(and, we will try to say nice things to you when you call asking where your money is.)

The truth of the matter is that once your boat reaches about 10 years old, the dealer and Sea Ray are of little value to you for parts because the parts list will give you "NLA" (no longer available) for one several reasons....... Sea Ray doesn't stock items no longer used in production; Sea Ray has changed vendors and they don't buy the item you need from that vendor any longer, so it is in the system under a new SKU number; The vendor no longer produces that particular item. Some of us have been at this stuff a while and we know who most of the vendors are and dependable sources for parts. When you can't find something, post a question here and I'd bet you get an answer and a source quicker than Marine Max will get it for you.

I think this is where Sea Ray's sales numbers work in their favor. By selling more boats, the parts suppliers tend to keep making those parts longer, making aftermarket parts more available and easier to find.

 

[Sea Ray Mark]

My experience with owning 5 different Sea Rays over the years is that the boats that came out of Merrit Island seem to be of better quality than my current Knoxville built boat. I realize that the larger Merrit Island boats are built with much nicer parts such as the transom door on my 370DA compared to my 330DA, but I also have noticed that the build quality and attention to detail is different. As for the OP complaining about speaker holes and such, I agree that it's really only an aesthetic issue until you see the same type of workmanship applied to the hatch and porthole cut outs, then it becomes a real potential problem.