QSM11 vs. MAN R600 730hp service requirements

[SeaNile]

Looking again through all the info on these two choices I'm not convinced the upkeep is that different. The MAN service is lengthy but when you read through it there is a lot of "check and inspect" items and even the big services A1/A2 revolve around the after cooler, heat exchanger cleaning and checking the turbos.
https://marinedieselspecialists.com/man-engines/man-maintenance

The QSM have the same requirements, checking and cleaning the water coolers and heat exchangers.

How the MAN service is 20-25K for cleaning the coolers and checking things is beyond me. Sure there is a lot of labor involved but that seems a bit excessive to me.

QSMs have their own specific short comings too, the turbos and exhaust manifold leak. Exhaust manifold leak is challenging because the parts are on back order with no known ETA. Could always have them machined true but not sure if that would hold up over time.

Random thoughts from a frustrated boat shopper on a crappy March day in the Philly burbs.

 

[fwebster]

My view is that you should stop over analyzing minutae and keep you eye on the ball. You do not factor in the probable exhaust system repair/replacements on QSM-11 engines, yet that exposure is there. For example, the 4 boats next to me in the marina for the last 5 years in Florida were QSM powered Sea Rays. All 4 had to deal with exhaust system overhauls in the first 6 months of 2021……..and every invoice from Cummins was between $38,000-$42,500.

I will be interested in your reaction when one of those invoices hits your mail box/credit card statement.

 

[SeaNile]

My view is that you should stop over analyzing minutae and keep you eye on the ball. You do not factor in the probable exhaust system repair/replacements on QSM-11 engines, yet that exposure is there. For example, the 4 boats next to me in the marina for the last 5 years in Florida were QSM powered Sea Rays. All 4 had to deal with exhaust system overhauls in the first 6 months of 2021……..and every invoice from Cummins was between $38,000-$42,500.

I will be interested in your reaction when one of those invoices hits your mail box/credit card statement.

The survey on the 03 50DA with QSM11s came back with $31,500 in needed repairs. Suggested replacing all fuel and gear oil coolers, one turbo (chewed up blades) various missing bolts, port engine exhaust manifold leak, intake gasket blew during sea trial which now needs to be replaced and a bottomed out engine mount. Other little odds and ends too. Thinking to myself if they seller is not willing to come down on the price do I walk or suck it up? Not to mention only turned up 2280 at WOT which is probably another $1,000-1500 for the haul and redoing the props.

 

[lawndoctor]

How the MAN service is 20-25K for cleaning the coolers and checking things is beyond me.

Because it is not. I that done to my MANs this summer for a fraction of that. The same work is required on the MANs that is required on other comparable diesels.

 

[SeaNile]

Because it is not. I that done to my MANs this summer for a fraction of that. The same work is required on the MANs that is required on other comparable diesels.

Which is exactly the reason I am inquiring about a MAN powered 52DA. Pretty sure they are the MAN R6 730hp engines.

 

[lawndoctor]

I guess I'm just reacting to what I call The MAN Myth. Random thoughts from a no-longer-frustrated recent boat buyer on a crappy March day in Philadelphia. Heading to Palm Beach tomorrow for the boat show and a long weekend. Should be 70s and sunny every day.

 

[tc410]

I guess I'm just reacting to what I call The MAN Myth. Random thoughts from a no-longer-frustrated recent boat buyer on a crappy March day in Philadelphia. Heading to Palm Beach tomorrow for the boat show and a long weekend. Should be 70s and sunny every day.

I’ll be at PBBS tomorrow around 2. Hitting Bradley’s for lunch first.

 

[Blueone]

I’ll be at PBBS tomorrow around 2. Hitting Bradley’s for lunch first.

You are mean…. I didn’t need to know that as I sit in Michigan.

 

[lawndoctor]

First time at the PB boat show for us. We're planning to hit the show Saturday then enjoy the area Sunday into Monday.

 

[tc410]

You are mean…. I didn’t need to know that as I sit in Michigan.

Not too mean. I’m sitting in Michigan right now too. CRAPPY rain and cold.

 

[tc410]

First time at the PB boat show for us. We're planning to hit the show Saturday then enjoy the area Sunday into Monday.

IMHO the PB show is the best of the three (flibs and mia). For the most part, it’s all the same boats and vendors, easily walkable, easy parking, and you’ll see most everything you’d see at the other 2 shows with far less people.

 

[Blueone]

IMHO the PB show is the best of the three (flibs and mia). For the most part, it’s all the same boats and vendors, easily walkable, easy parking, and you’ll see most everything you’d see at the other 2 shows with far less people.

First time I heard someone say Pb is better then the others…. I have been to Miami and was not impressed….and only had Lauderdale on the list

 

[tc410]

First time I heard someone say Pb is better then the others…. I have been to Miami and was not impressed….and only had Lauderdale on the list

Strictly my opinion. I never ran Cat 5 cable so I don’t claim to be an expert on everything. When I go to a boat show, there are a handful of vendors I like to check out (electronics, accessories, fishing gear) and a handful of boats that intrigue me. Sadly, Sea Ray is no longer on that list. I like to check out the center consoles, and the Princess, San Lorenzo, Hatteras and a few others. They’re all there just like the big shows and seemingly much lighter crowds.

 

[Carver370]

The Palm Beach show is one of the best in my opinion. Come see me on D dock slip 205!

 

[doozie]

I think the MAN R-600 are 800 HP. I have those in a 2005 CABO, I bought 2 years ago with 680 hours and no maintenance records on the engines. The boat was in Long Island so pretty much all salt water. I had the MAN Guy from Maryland check it out on Sea Trail, it all checked out, Still worried me about the heat exchangers. Was quoted 10K to remove clean and replace. The tanks and tube bundels can be repaired if not to far gone, if not , the tanks and bundels were another 8K ea. I bought it, tore it apart myself, a good cleaning was all it needed. have added another 200 hours since and no issues. I don't see a big difference in part pricing between the CATS I had. If you can turn wrenches it's not that hard to do.

 

[mquiet]

I think the MAN R-600 are 800 HP. I have those in a 2005 CABO, The tanks and tube bundels can be repaired if not to far gone, if not , the tanks and bundels were another 8K ea. I bought it, tore it apart myself, a good cleaning was all it needed. have added another 200 hours since and no issues. I don't see a big difference in part pricing between the CATS I had. If you can turn wrenches it's not that hard to do.

Why would the HE tube bundles be failing so quickly? I don't know if that's the same as Cats. I have over 3500hrs on my Cats and my tube bundles are all good? The only difference is I change out aftercooler cores every 6 years as per Cats SOP.

 

[doozie]

I don't know, but i agree in 15 years of owing diesel engine boats, I have not changed the cores or the bundles, but most of my boating is in brackish water.

 

[swaterhouse]

Just posting as another actual MAN owner that has paid for an actual service. My bill this winter for the major A1 and A2 service plus the valve adjustment was $18,000 for the CRM900's which are quite a bit bigger than the R6 in the 52DB's.

Of that bill there was 85 hours of labor, the rest was parts. I used to do the HE on my QSC's in the 44DA, took about 18 hours in total to pull, clean, assemble, test, paint and install the pair. If the MAN was close to that I would do them myself but I don't want to spend 85 hours doing that so I sub it out.

 

[SeaNile]

Just posting as another actual MAN owner that has paid for an actual service. My bill this winter for the major A1 and A2 service plus the valve adjustment was $18,000 for the CRM900's which are quite a bit bigger than the R6 in the 52DB's.

Of that bill there was 85 hours of labor, the rest was parts. I used to do the HE on my QSC's in the 44DA, took about 18 hours in total to pull, clean, assemble, test, paint and install the pair. If the MAN was close to that I would do them myself but I don't want to spend 85 hours doing that so I sub it out.

That's more what I was expecting and right about what it would cost for any manufacture big HP diesel. 85hrs of labor? That job is no joke!

 

[swaterhouse]

That's more what I was expecting and right about what it would cost for any manufacture big HP diesel. 85hrs of labor? That job is no joke!

I think a big part of the labor is the fact the access is tough and the parts are super heavy so I assume most of the on boat work is a two person job.