Purchase 1993 400EC?

We went to see the 370 this afternoon, I must admit the old girl showed pretty well and the price is about half of what the 400EC would be.

I have some questions about SBW's prior comments regarding "rework the limber holes" and the deck by the windless getting soft. Limber holes, I did a quick search here, didn't get a real clear picture in my mind what we're talking about...and the deck by the windless getting soft, would this have been the vertical bulkhead, the main deck over the top of the anchor storage compartment or the deck below the forward bunk?

Also, how much wood is hidden from view below deck in these old girls, stringers bulk heads etc...I am "ignorant" on problem areas on these boats...looking for advice.

OBTW this particular broker may have a 2000 340DA coming in soon...if she has low miles on the engines and is clean what's a good price point? My wife likes the 340s, she thinks the 310 feels a bit cramped (we looked at a 2008 310 today as well, pretty boat, clean throughtout, but more $$$ than I want to spend).

Thanks again, John

John,

All boats have stringers that are molded to the bottom of the boat on the inside and run the length of the boat The bigger the boat the bigger the stringers. Limber holes go through the stringers sometimes at several points along the bottom of the stringer to allow water to get to the inboard side of the stringer and into the bilge where it can be pumped overboard by the bilge pumps. A proper Limber hole should be glassed in to the stringer to prevent moisture from getting into the wood stringers. This can be very bad if not done this way. In many of the early Sea Rays as well as many other brands the limber holes have just a short length of pvc tubing and they are often not sealed. It sounds like that was the case on SBW's Sea Ray. The soft deck he was referring to was around the windlass on the foredeck of the boat. Most foredecks are 2 layers of fiberglass with a layer of balsa in between. If the balsa gets wet the deck can get soft and a repair would be needed. All of these boats have wood in them and how much can be exposed to water depends on the boat and the care it has received.

My last boat was a 1989 340 Sundancer. I had no soft decks, rot, blisters or limber hole issues. Others on the forum have posted volumes about the rot they have had to repair on their late 80's 340s. BTW there are still some of those boats around that are in very good shape and that was also a pretty roomy boat but an older design. While I don't mean to minimize the issues SBW had with his 350/370 I'm sure you will find mainy more 350/370 owners on this forum who love(d) them. A good surveyor will find these issues and if you are concerned simply ask the surveyor to pay extra attention to those areas of concern. Also don't be afraid to walk if a survey turns up more that you or the seller are willing to repair. Before I bought my current boat I paid $1600 for surveys on another boat that looked OK but didn't do well in the survey so we walked and ended up with a much better boat.

It's not really too hard to tell if a boat has had care. If it's clean and neat inside and out; the engine room is clean and uncluttered; boat is shiny and appears to have a good coat of wax the PO most likely took care of needed items. The pics of the 310 in your last post didn't impress me much.


Yachtworld lists 42 2000 340 Sundancers in the US with prices from $99k to $47,700. There are a few in Annapolis and Baltimore in the high $60s to low $70s. Keep in mind that the 2000 340 has a beam of only 11'5". Those engines are really close together. My '89 340 had a beam 6" wider and I could not stand between the engines. The 350/370 has a beam that is 11" wider and beam makes all the difference. There is one other model you might consider and that is this one. http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1994/Sea-Ray-440-Sundancer-2318160/Annapolis/MD/United-States This is a 44' Sundancer and it has Cat diesels. With a beam of almost 14' this a really a roomy boat. The asking price is a bit higher but there is really a lot of boat here. You might want to check that out at least for comparison. And remember, these are just asking prices and you can offer anything you want.

Enjoy the search and keep us informed on how its going.

Shawn
 
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We've been looking for now several months, we made the mistake of going on board a Regal 402 today in mint condition.
 
I agree with Shawn,

The 310 you were looking at gives me chills how crummy it is. I would not have faith in that boat...

Done write off the late 80's 340s. You can find great boats for under your price point and make it look like new! Good luck with the hunt.
 
We've been looking for now several months, we made the mistake of going on board a Regal 402 today in mint condition.

Regals are great boats. I almost bought a couple and I have always liked the 402s. For some reason tho they have a really low resale price here in California. It kind of scared me off. However, they have great ownership loyalty, great layouts and I feel they are well built. You could do worse.
 
John,

All boats have stringers that are molded to the bottom of the boat on the inside and run the length of the boat The bigger the boat the bigger the stringers. Limber holes go through the stringers sometimes at several points along the bottom of the stringer to allow water to get to the inboard side of the stringer and into the bilge where it can be pumped overboard by the bilge pumps. A proper Limber hole should be glassed in to the stringer to prevent moisture from getting into the wood stringers. This can be very bad if not done this way. In many of the early Sea Rays as well as many other brands the limber holes have just a short length of pvc tubing and they are often not sealed. It sounds like that was the case on SBW's Sea Ray. The soft deck he was referring to was around the windlass on the foredeck of the boat. Most foredecks are 2 layers of fiberglass with a layer of balsa in between. If the balsa gets wet the deck can get soft and a repair would be needed. All of these boats have wood in them and how much can be exposed to water depends on the boat and the care it has received.

My last boat was a 1989 340 Sundancer. I had no soft decks, rot, blisters or limber hole issues. Others on the forum have posted volumes about the rot they have had to repair on their late 80's 340s. BTW there are still some of those boats around that are in very good shape and that was also a pretty roomy boat but an older design. While I don't mean to minimize the issues SBW had with his 350/370 I'm sure you will find mainy more 350/370 owners on this forum who love(d) them. A good surveyor will find these issues and if you are concerned simply ask the surveyor to pay extra attention to those areas of concern. Also don't be afraid to walk if a survey turns up more that you or the seller are willing to repair. Before I bought my current boat I paid $1600 for surveys on another boat that looked OK but didn't do well in the survey so we walked and ended up with a much better boat.

It's not really too hard to tell if a boat has had care. If it's clean and neat inside and out; the engine room is clean and uncluttered; boat is shiny and appears to have a good coat of wax the PO most likely took care of needed items. The pics of the 310 in your last post didn't impress me much.


Yachtworld lists 42 2000 340 Sundancers in the US with prices from $99k to $47,700. There are a few in Annapolis and Baltimore in the high $60s to low $70s. Keep in mind that the 2000 340 has a beam of only 11'5". Those engines are really close together. My '89 340 had a beam 6" wider and I could not stand between the engines. The 350/370 has a beam that is 11" wider and beam makes all the difference. There is one other model you might consider and that is this one. http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1994/Sea-Ray-440-Sundancer-2318160/Annapolis/MD/United-States This is a 44' Sundancer and it has Cat diesels. With a beam of almost 14' this a really a roomy boat. The asking price is a bit higher but there is really a lot of boat here. You might want to check that out at least for comparison. And remember, these are just asking prices and you can offer anything you want.

Enjoy the search and keep us informed on how its going.

Shawn

I just purchased an 89 340 Sundancer. I think it's a great boat and very roomy. I went through many of the same things you are going through while searching for our next boat (and it had to be a Sea Ray). We discovered it is very difficult to get a loan on older boats and newer boats in the size we were looking for (34' and larger) were over a $100k. We decided to go older and pay cash.

Our boat was rough and needed a little TLC, but the work was figured into the price. When we're done we'll be in for about $32K, but the canvas and cockpit will be brand new. So for a third of the price, I have a "new" boat. Of course, the newer ones have better layouts, but it wasn't worth the money to me. BTW, don't think that because you're buying a 10 year old boat instead of a 20 year old boat that it'll require less maintenance. Unlikely! New and old, they are holes in the water you throw money into.

As far as gas vs diesel? This depends on so many factors. In boats larger than 40' you will almost always see diesels, because gas engines don't have the torque required for the props needed for manuvering. In boats under 40', as was said before, how far are you going? If you intend local cruising with an occasional longer trip, gas engines will probably cost you less in the long run. Diesels are very expensive to repair. A turbo can cost as much as a gas engine. A lot of guys prefer the diesels because they handle better. They always have larger props and when you engage the trans, the boat moves and I mean right now! With my 340, it's a little slower and sometimes I need a little throttle.

I think you've heard it a few times already but get a good survey. Our current boat was not the first 340 we looked at, but the first one we made an offer one had rotten stringers and bulkheads. Big money repair $$$.

FYI, i've heard the Rivera's are great boats, but for some reason there just aren't many around here. It's mostly Sea Rays and Bayliners (of course there are lots of other boats, but none as common as Sea Rays and Bayliners)

Good luck,
Rob
 
This one photos well and looks better in person

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1995/Regal-402-Commodore-2493762/Grasonville/MD/United-States

How much can one expect a broker to come down on price?
I'm a Sea Ray guy, so as far as I'm concerned he should come down a lot. Sure the boat is a 40' er with diesels, but I don't think you get Sea Ray quality. 40' Sea Rays of the same vintage with diesels run a lot more, so there must be a reason, but if you must buy something other than a Sea Ray I guess the Regal is ok. Good Luck!
Rob
 
This one photos well and looks better in person

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1995/Regal-402-Commodore-2493762/Grasonville/MD/United-States

How much can one expect a broker to come down on price?

John,

It's not really the broker that lowers the price. The broker is simply an agent for the owner/seller. Any offer you present to the broker must be presented to the seller. How much the seller will come down on their price depends on many factors. But mostly it depends on how bad they want to sell. Maybe they are getting out of boating, need the money to live on due to an employment change, they're moving, they found a bigger one, etc.

Since you are looking at a boat that size and money I would suggest you look at the 420 Sundancer like the one I added the link for in post #21. The boats are similar size and price. It would give you a really good comparison.

As for offers I would start at $67-69k on either one. The broker will present your offer to the sellers and they can counter if they choose. I offered $15,000 less than asking price on my boat thinking that would be a starting place and we would negotiate. The seller surprised us by accepting so you never really know what will happen.

Have fun.
 
John,

It's not really the broker that lowers the price. The broker is simply an agent for the owner/seller. Any offer you present to the broker must be presented to the seller. How much the seller will come down on their price depends on many factors. But mostly it depends on how bad they want to sell. Maybe they are getting out of boating, need the money to live on due to an employment change, they're moving, they found a bigger one, etc.

Since you are looking at a boat that size and money I would suggest you look at the 420 Sundancer like the one I added the link for in post #21. The boats are similar size and price. It would give you a really good comparison.

As for offers I would start at $67-69k on either one. The broker will present your offer to the sellers and they can counter if they choose. I offered $15,000 less than asking price on my boat thinking that would be a starting place and we would negotiate. The seller surprised us by accepting so you never really know what will happen.

Have fun.
Umm, listen to NorCal you should!
 
Indeed. Offer what the boat is worth to you, not what they've asked for. You're free to offer and they're free to say no.

We too offered substantially less than being asked, prepared to come up somewhat to meet the vendor. Original offer was accepted by the broker on the spot (he had delegate authority) and then further accepted reduction post survey.
 
if I may butt in with my .02, I'd really think hard about your need for diesels, yes the resale is better, but if you plan on keeping the boat and you don't have a need for speed, gasser's ain't that bad. Yea my boat is old and sort of a dinasour, but everybody loves it including me. the way i drive at 8 knots usually gives 1 mile to the gallon on a calm day, .5 planned out around 18 knots or so (cut that in half for bad weather). If your just going to drive slow, your just maintaining expensive engines that you don't need, maybe you just want them like I did, but those old 454's are running sweet at 1750 hrs on the clock. On the other hand, I'd love to have a masive (r) boat with some bad a$$ diesels, but I can't justify it, If you drive it 300 hrs a year then maybe. If I bought diesels I'd be sure to get the best of the best surveyor that really knows a lot about diesels
 
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I'll admit I haven't followed this entire thread, but one needs to ask why a bullet proof Cummins engines needed rebuilding in 350 hours. The 6BTA is known to be problematical when over heated or overloaded. The fact that they were rebuilt very early may indicate the care and/or neglect the boat has had.

Look very carefully at any Regal this size. I've been on more than 1 where no design consideration was given to mechanical access and they were nightmares to service and very expensive to repair.....like remove the generator to replace the impeller type of expensive. Regal usually sells thru brokers so you won't find a dealer network or ready parts source like you will with Sea Ray.

Good luck with your search...............
 
I'll admit I haven't followed this entire thread, but one needs to ask why a bullet proof Cummins engines needed rebuilding in 350 hoursh...............

Actually the engines were rebuilt in 2003 and now have 350 hours on them.
 
Don't miss the point here........8 years in a pleasure boat isn't enough time to wear out a pair of diesels. Something happened and it may indicate a pattern of use, abuse or maintenance that you don't need to inherit even though the engines have run another 8 years since rebuild.
 
I gotta admit he's doin a fine job of trying to make the right decision, I woke up one day and wanted a new boat, 3 weeks later I had my current boat and it was a great decision in the end, I hope you get a great boat Jcooke01, I'm jealous, get a good mechanic to look at whatever ya get. Diesels do last forever, I have one in my 96 Ford f-350 and it's fun to drive just because it's a bad a$$ diesel.

Dan

yea, 350 hrs on a diesel is probably nothing in boating terms
 
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350 hours since the refit also the second owner seems to have taken good care of her.

I took another look at that Sea Ray 440 in Annapolis, if the sea trial doesn't go well on this boat I may have to give the 440 a look see but from what I've read the on average the Cat diesels don't hold up as well as the Cummins. I know, it's all about the care giver...

...I have to admit, even without a boat I'm still enjoying the ride...

All thanks for the sanity checks...please keep them coming.
 
Ha, your comment about enjoying the ride even without the boat is so true.

The 18 months I spent looking were a ball - sea trials, trips interstate, research, pondering and planning.
 
350 hours since the refit also the second owner seems to have taken good care of her.

I took another look at that Sea Ray 440 in Annapolis, if the sea trial doesn't go well on this boat I may have to give the 440 a look see but from what I've read the on average the Cat diesels don't hold up as well as the Cummins. I know, it's all about the care giver...

...I have to admit, even without a boat I'm still enjoying the ride...

All thanks for the sanity checks...please keep them coming.

Where did you read that load of crap??

Doug
 
Sorry, struck the wrong chord there.

Can you gents provide feedback on personal experience from diesel craft. I've been on numerous gassers, they all ran well. As far as a diesel cruiser is concerned, other than age and audible queues one might hear are there any visiual queues to look for on a sea trial. I've seen a lot of diesel trucks and cars on the the streets that smoke a bit under heavy load and then run clean at highway speed. Do these Cats and Cummins in a boat run the same way, a little black smoke out of the hole and then clean?

Any input would be appreciated.

Regards, John
 

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