Prop Pockets vs Open Props

[BonBini]

Need a little info on Prop Pockets vs. Open Props (terminology?) as far as maneuverability and propulsion efficiency?

Were currently going through 2ft itis and are honing in on maybe an 88 340 EC W/454’s or 88 WellCraft ST. Tropez W/454’s.

What I here is when maneuvering??? pockets tend to cavitate. Open Props will walk the stern much better. I duno?

Efficiency??? common sense tells me pockets could focus thrust much better. Open Props could flail water off all sides like a ceiling fan.

I’ve never ran twins so I’m really clueless here!

 

[ks65609]

Need a little info on Prop Pockets vs. Open Props (terminology?) as far as maneuverability and propulsion efficiency?

Were currently going through 2ft itis and are honing in on maybe an 88 340 EC W/454’s or 88 WellCraft ST. Tropez W/454’s.

What I here is when maneuvering??? pockets tend to cavitate. Open Props will walk the stern much better. I duno?

Efficiency??? common sense tells me pockets could focus thrust much better. Open Props could flail water off all sides like a ceiling fan.

I’ve never ran twins so I’m really clueless here!

I am very impressed with our twins and prop pockets (29 " draft). I find the around dock/slip manouvering excellent and simple to learn. Center the helm and don't mess with it. Also make sure your trim tabs are fully retracted. Easy to forget and manouvering becomes messy very quickly.
Make small adjustments using the shifters and allow time for the boat to react (very very important).
Boat will easily rotate 360 degrees in its own length.
Make sure throttles at idle.
Would never go back to a single.

Good luck
Ken

Forgot one point
Learn the pivot point of the boat. Mine is just forward of the radar arch base. Basically were I stand at the helm.
Of course if working with a current or breeze I move this(pivot point) forward or aft to compensate.

 

[Ka1oxd]

I love the prop pockets. When underway the boat is smooth and handles great. In and out of the docks is easy. While the engines are in idle, I bring the rpm up to about 900 to 1000. On my steering wheel I have Davis mechanical rudder position indicator which helps me ensure the rudders are straight at a quick glance. Maneuvering is done only with the transmissions. Like driving a tank. The boat is great and again I would never go back to singles.

 

[Miss Maddy G]

I agree with the above statements although I do find that my friends who have open pockets which are further apart (props are closer to both the port and starboard side) have a much greater "bite" when put in gear.

 

[docofthebay]

My props have never cavitated at either slow or high speed and I have tunnels just like the 340
And being in tunnels they are more protected from bottom/ strikes
I had a 300 with out drives and the 390 with inboards handles much better in docking situations. Spins in a smaller radius

 

[fwebster]

I don't think it is a question of are prop pockets good as much as it is whether or not the entire hull performs as it should. I am not aware of Sea Ray making a hull that doesn't perform. From there, it becomes a matter of selecting the boat that best suits your needs and adapting to the hull characteristics in that particular boat. Some prop pocket attributed that come to mind are that the prop are mostly protected by the keel. On the 390 I had, the props were not the lowest protrusion on the bottom and more than once we skimmed over sand bars 30" or less under the water with no damage. Pockets do limit what you can do with your props since you are limited in diameter to hull clearance. Water disruption ahead of the props can be an issue so care must be taken in where and how you locate transducers. It isn't a prop pocket thing, but Sea rays in the late 80's tend to have smallish 3 blade props so it is going to take some throttle to get them to react in close quarters.

If I were you, I would include the 390EC in your list. The 390 is the best selling midsized cruiser of that era. It had a 5 year life span and the dealers wouldn't let Sea Ray replace it. The 390 has ample room for maintenance, whereas, the 340EC or DA is tight and the 39 has tons more interior room and is a better sea boat.

Good luck with your search.........

 

[BonBini]

Thank you all for the very good responses. I’m feeling pockets are the way to go for me. Just so many clean fresh water boats up here I want to end up with a keeper.

 

[dpmulvey]

About a year ago, I watched an interview with the former CEO of Sea Ray. He was an engineer from Volvo. The pockets are there to be able to mount the engines lower. No more. No less.

 

[BonBini]

About a year ago, I watched an interview with the former CEO of Sea Ray. He was an engineer from Volvo. The pockets are there to be able to mount the engines lower. No more. No less.

Interesting: It would be nice to study the two hull designs out of the water.

 

[hottoddie]

Need a little info on Prop Pockets vs. Open Props (terminology?) as far as maneuverability and propulsion efficiency?

Were currently going through 2ft itis and are honing in on maybe an 88 340 EC W/454’s or 88 WellCraft ST. Tropez W/454’s.

What I here is when maneuvering??? pockets tend to cavitate. Open Props will walk the stern much better. I duno?

Efficiency??? common sense tells me pockets could focus thrust much better. Open Props could flail water off all sides like a ceiling fan.

I’ve never ran twins so I’m really clueless here!

The Wellcraft St Tropaz is a 32 ft boat and I think it has V Drives and interior headroom is 6 ft or less . The Sea Ray 34 ft Express is by far a better running boat with straight drives and the interior is much more functional. I agree with Frank that if you do it go for a 390 Express and you won't need to move up for a long time. My 390 has large prop pockets and handles docking just fine with the right touch and a little throttle. We love the room, separate shower, island bed and full size fridge.

 

[tdschafer]

We love the room, separate shower, island bed and full size fridge.

Ok, ok. Now you're making me jealous!! :grin:

 

[Pyrojodge]

Yep, love my pockets as well. They are solid boats as long as they are cared for. And the room inside compared to newer models with same length doesn't compare!

 

[Jimmy Buoy]

My last boat was a 1987 St Tropez with twin 350"s. It was a very good problem free boat and we moved up mainly for a newer model with a larger cockpit for entertaining. I don't notice any deficiencies with our current prop pocket design vs the St. Tropez open prop design. I prefer the additional safety margin that the pockets provide when it comes to shallow water operation.

The St Tropez has a nicer layout in the cabin (IMHO) than Sea Ray due to having an Island Bed, 4 person dinette, a 6' long couch opposite the dinette, and a separate galley area that's infringing on the center area of the boat. One negative thing is the lack of head room. I'm 6' and the ceiling needed to be a couple of inches higher in the cabin and the radar arch was also a skull crusher if you leave the light dome in place (which hangs down about an inch right between the front two seats). OUCH!!

I think the 340 Sea Ray would be a better overall value, and would attract more potential buyers when it comes time to sell.

 

[25thmustang]

I actually notice a difference between my old prop pocket boat and my new non pocketed boat. The pockets seemed to hinder the boats movement stern. The boat without pockets seems to maneuver a little quicker (even though it's a larger, taller, heavier boat).

Call me blasphemous but have you looked at the 34x Silvertons? They are huge 34' boats. Inboards, with an aft cabin, island berth up front, and I believe a stalk shower. I have seen a lot of them priced reasonably lately.

 

[MarkD]

Like Frank and some others have said, pockets are great going forward and are good for shallow draft. They limit the wheel size and these boats have tiny 3 blade props as standard equipment. Something like 16 or 17" diameter. Reversing is fair. but at times, will need some throttle to get bite.... I would also agree that the 39 is an awesome boat! But then again, the 34 isnt a slouch either.

As to the "blasphemous" (lol) Silverton comment. I have a buddy with one from 1987. Yes its a big boat, but the quality isnt anywhere close to the SR. I see cleats pulling out and gelcoat cracking all over the place on his. The interior is decent, but the sleeping accomodations just plain stink. plus the hull is tapered sharply and the real beam isnt carrier all the way forward like the 34 SR's does... just a different type of boat, like apples and oranges. I do like the newer silvertons alot however....

 

[BonBini]

You guys are killing me with the 390EC comments. I’m afraid I could pull it off since we wont be trailering anymore! Just not sure on the operating costs and the ability to go sandbaring.

It's time to get the wife on the 340 for a closer look.

 

[tdschafer]

You guys are killing me with the 390EC comments. I’m afraid I could pull it off since we wont be trailering anymore! Just not sure on the operating costs and the ability to go sandbaring.

It's time to get the wife on the 340 for a closer look.

Or the 390EC......:grin:

 

[fwebster]

You guys are killing me with the 390EC comments. I’m afraid I could pull it off since we wont be trailering anymore! Just not sure on the operating costs and the ability to go sandbaring.

It's time to get the wife on the 340 for a closer look.

Nope....you gotta think of a better excuse than that. The 340EC draws 29"....the 390EC draws 28". Since the power is the same, unless you are smart and go look for a 3208 powered 390EC, operating costs are the same, insurance is based on insured value, not length, so the only real cost difference between the 340 and the 390 are services you have to purchase by the foot. Do yourself a favor....go look at a 390EC and a 340EC on the same day. There is so much more space, the 2 ft difference in beam makes the 390 seem like its 10 ft longer.

As far as shallow water use, we pretty much live off the back of our boats in the summer.....I anchor off shore, then back out on the beach and set a stern anchor leaving the props over deep water and with the 390, I was usually knee deep off the back of the platform. In fact, had my boat has 3208's instead of 7.4's, I would still own it.

 

[390x]

The Wellcraft St Tropaz is a 32 ft boat and I think it has V Drives and interior headroom is 6 ft or less . The Sea Ray 34 ft Express is by far a better running boat with straight drives and the interior is much more functional. I agree with Frank that if you do it go for a 390 Express and you won't need to move up for a long time. My 390 has large prop pockets and handles docking just fine with the right touch and a little throttle. We love the room, separate shower, island bed and full size fridge.

I completely disagree with the space and the running characteristics you describe. The St. Tropez without prop pockets is a much faster boat than the 34, and handles better. I also think the layout is much better with a couch that converts to a bunk AND a dinette as well as a small kitchen since it never gets used anyway. I was very impressed with the layout of the St. Tropez, and I think it's much more functional than the 34.

 

[25thmustang]

Like Frank and some others have said, pockets are great going forward and are good for shallow draft. They limit the wheel size and these boats have tiny 3 blade props as standard equipment. Something like 16 or 17" diameter. Reversing is fair. but at times, will need some throttle to get bite.... I would also agree that the 39 is an awesome boat! But then again, the 34 isnt a slouch either.

As to the "blasphemous" (lol) Silverton comment. I have a buddy with one from 1987. Yes its a big boat, but the quality isnt anywhere close to the SR. I see cleats pulling out and gelcoat cracking all over the place on his. The interior is decent, but the sleeping accomodations just plain stink. plus the hull is tapered sharply and the real beam isnt carrier all the way forward like the 34 SR's does... just a different type of boat, like apples and oranges. I do like the newer silvertons alot however....

Sounds like your friends had a rough life, I've never paid much attention to the 34X but never saw those issues on the dozens of 34, 37 and 40 Convertibles I've been on. I would like to climb aboard a 340 dancer to see how roomy they are!