Saverio
Well-Known Member
- Aug 31, 2010
- 1,506
- Boat Info
- 1995 450 DA
- Engines
- Cat 3126 420hp
900 hours Westerbeek Generator
PREVENTION - REBEDDING for water intrusion core issues
- Thread starter Maybe A Dancer
- Start date
Back on the story of leaking hatches.
The sealant must have given out at some point, and I noticed a few drops of water on the bench top after a heavy rain.
Pulled the hatch bolster off to see what was going on...
Clearly water had been getting in for a while and it looks like an imperfection in the fiberglass is the culprit, although once I removed the hatch, I could tell the sealant had given up and the fiberglass imperfection was not really at fault (no screws above). I filled the imperfection with epoxy once dry. It didn't take much - gravity must have drawn the water down further.
The bolster had taken most of the damage.
Time for some amateur engineering!
Don't worry about the splits in the outer layer of the treated plywood as I filled the saw cuts with epoxy.
And from the visible side, it looks as good as new.
Next post...fitting it all back together.
Hope this helps others who might have the same problem.
-Greg
The sealant must have given out at some point, and I noticed a few drops of water on the bench top after a heavy rain.
Pulled the hatch bolster off to see what was going on...
Clearly water had been getting in for a while and it looks like an imperfection in the fiberglass is the culprit, although once I removed the hatch, I could tell the sealant had given up and the fiberglass imperfection was not really at fault (no screws above). I filled the imperfection with epoxy once dry. It didn't take much - gravity must have drawn the water down further.
The bolster had taken most of the damage.
Time for some amateur engineering!
Don't worry about the splits in the outer layer of the treated plywood as I filled the saw cuts with epoxy.
And from the visible side, it looks as good as new.
Next post...fitting it all back together.
Hope this helps others who might have the same problem.
-Greg
Part two of the leaking hatch.
Lifted the hatch out using the stainless pry bar and a flat piece of wood underneath to prevent damage to the deck & gelcoat. It lifted out very easily at the top right corner (not the corner where most of the damage to the bolster occurred). The water was coming in at the top right corner by the hinge and tracking down (gravity) to the bottom right.
The water probably tracked along the underside until it hit the imperfection, pooling there before dripping off onto the bolster and support.
Anyway, sealed this, cleaned off all surfaces and resealed the hatch in place.
I used SikaFlex 291...hmm, first time using this stuff. I imagine its very good, however, it's nasty to work with. I expected to be able to use the good old detergent trick to wipe off excess sealant. Well, that idea is probably the worst idea as the Sika appears to set when water hits it. Wiping it off with detergent + water just smears it all over the place...what a nightmare! Anyway, many hours later...finally cleaned it up with 5000 sheets of paper towel.
Time to set the bolster back in place!
As I had to install new christmas tree plugs it was quite difficult to align them with the existing holes, so pushed them part way into the ceiling holes, dabbed some paint on the end and then pushed the bolster up to mark the drill points. This method worked fine.
And finally resealed the bolster and hatch.
I'm reasonably happy with the result. Others with better craftmanship skills could do a better job, but it worked out well enough in the end.
Crafting difficulty for me (amateur) - I would say probably a 6 out of 10 (most difficult).
- Greg
Lifted the hatch out using the stainless pry bar and a flat piece of wood underneath to prevent damage to the deck & gelcoat. It lifted out very easily at the top right corner (not the corner where most of the damage to the bolster occurred). The water was coming in at the top right corner by the hinge and tracking down (gravity) to the bottom right.
The water probably tracked along the underside until it hit the imperfection, pooling there before dripping off onto the bolster and support.
Anyway, sealed this, cleaned off all surfaces and resealed the hatch in place.
I used SikaFlex 291...hmm, first time using this stuff. I imagine its very good, however, it's nasty to work with. I expected to be able to use the good old detergent trick to wipe off excess sealant. Well, that idea is probably the worst idea as the Sika appears to set when water hits it. Wiping it off with detergent + water just smears it all over the place...what a nightmare! Anyway, many hours later...finally cleaned it up with 5000 sheets of paper towel.
Time to set the bolster back in place!
As I had to install new christmas tree plugs it was quite difficult to align them with the existing holes, so pushed them part way into the ceiling holes, dabbed some paint on the end and then pushed the bolster up to mark the drill points. This method worked fine.
And finally resealed the bolster and hatch.
I'm reasonably happy with the result. Others with better craftmanship skills could do a better job, but it worked out well enough in the end.
Crafting difficulty for me (amateur) - I would say probably a 6 out of 10 (most difficult).
- Greg
- Aug 20, 2021
- 1,313
- Boat Info
- Started out as MAYBE A DANCER
Became a Dancer - 12/23/21
- Engines
- 450 DA Sundancer running CAT 3126
Greg,
The bolster looks great !
Nice work on the cuts/epoxy work.
I understand that you removed and sealed the hatch itself.
How did you handle the damage to the balsa core?
BEST !
RWS
The bolster looks great !
Nice work on the cuts/epoxy work.
I understand that you removed and sealed the hatch itself.
How did you handle the damage to the balsa core?
BEST !
RWS
The deck structure was not compromised, but I think you are referring to the supports for the headliner and bolster?
- If that's the case, I cut and removed the dead wood and crafted a new elbow insert out of marine ply, epoxying 3 layers of 4 ply together (sandwich). This elbow then formed the new corner for the headliner and bolster to attach to.
- If you are referring to the deck where the hatch sits, this has plywood between the fiberglass sheets, and it was not compromised. I gave it a lick of paint to add some sealing. Where you can see the lower fiberglass imperfection, there was a minor cavity, which I filled with a small amount of epoxy using a syringe, also levelling it out with the underside of the deck.
-Greg
Next time you use the 291, mask off the areas. I mask an entire area then set and fasten the item to be caulked and cut the masking around the perimeter then remove the hatch (or whatever) and pull up the masking inside of the cut line. Now you have a perfect line for the caulking that you can tool. BTW, I found that mineral spirits cleans it up pretty good until it sets up.
- Aug 20, 2021
- 1,313
- Boat Info
- Started out as MAYBE A DANCER
Became a Dancer - 12/23/21
- Engines
- 450 DA Sundancer running CAT 3126
the rebedding of these hatches is important to maintaining the integrity of the deck area.
The balsa core sandwiched between the fiberglass is a sponge when water finds its way in.
I looked at several 450's before lucking myself into the one I presently own.
When (notice I said when, not if) water finds it's way past the now dried out factory sealant, it can make oatmeal of the balsa core.
The flexing of the deck and or the freeze/thaw creates those spyder cracks in the gelcoat/fiberglass.
These boats ae now in their 26th year.
I just did the 4 on my boat, repaired what was necessary and even though I've sealed everything off I plan on rebedding these hatches every 10 years to protect the integrity of the deck structure.
Same with sealing the windshield base screws, and keeping that thick black gasket fresh so water does not collect in there.
Mechanical parts are easily replaced. This kind of preventative maintenance cannot be easily caught up once the damage is done.
Good as these boats are, they are still PRODUCTION BOATS and there are some things that require additional care as they age.
BEST !
RWS
The balsa core sandwiched between the fiberglass is a sponge when water finds its way in.
I looked at several 450's before lucking myself into the one I presently own.
When (notice I said when, not if) water finds it's way past the now dried out factory sealant, it can make oatmeal of the balsa core.
The flexing of the deck and or the freeze/thaw creates those spyder cracks in the gelcoat/fiberglass.
These boats ae now in their 26th year.
I just did the 4 on my boat, repaired what was necessary and even though I've sealed everything off I plan on rebedding these hatches every 10 years to protect the integrity of the deck structure.
Same with sealing the windshield base screws, and keeping that thick black gasket fresh so water does not collect in there.
Mechanical parts are easily replaced. This kind of preventative maintenance cannot be easily caught up once the damage is done.
Good as these boats are, they are still PRODUCTION BOATS and there are some things that require additional care as they age.
BEST !
RWS
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Every hatch and portlight I've pulled on my SR boats revealed sloppy workmanship in cutting the hole causing insufficient overlap for bedding and sealing. One instance an external screw had nothing under it to thread into; it was "puckied" in place with some silicone sealant. In my opinion any SR boat over ten years old should have the openings re-bedded based upon experience. It's not that difficult of a job unless other issues are uncovered.
Another problem area is the deck to hull shoebox overlap under the rub rail. Here again, SR did a poor job getting that area prepared and sealed especially in the larger boats.
Here is an example on my 52DB - you can see where there was no overlap for seal over the top.
Another problem area is the deck to hull shoebox overlap under the rub rail. Here again, SR did a poor job getting that area prepared and sealed especially in the larger boats.
Here is an example on my 52DB - you can see where there was no overlap for seal over the top.
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- Aug 20, 2021
- 1,313
- Boat Info
- Started out as MAYBE A DANCER
Became a Dancer - 12/23/21
- Engines
- 450 DA Sundancer running CAT 3126
Was well informed on this matter - Eyes wide open when shopping for the 450DA Sea Ray.
Additionally, surveyor cautioned me on this item, telling me that SR often cut the holes too big.
In addition to Tom's comment above strongly suggest when any portlite hatch or ANY item is removed from any balsa core area to not only re-bed the item in question, but to REMOVE THE SURROUNDING EXPOSED BALSA CORE AND SEAL WITH EPOXY !
I plan on getting to the large engine room air intake covers this winter.
Wishing I had the time to get to them before she went through the eye of CAT 4 HURRICANE IAN !!!
BEST !
RWS
Additionally, surveyor cautioned me on this item, telling me that SR often cut the holes too big.
In addition to Tom's comment above strongly suggest when any portlite hatch or ANY item is removed from any balsa core area to not only re-bed the item in question, but to REMOVE THE SURROUNDING EXPOSED BALSA CORE AND SEAL WITH EPOXY !
I plan on getting to the large engine room air intake covers this winter.
Wishing I had the time to get to them before she went through the eye of CAT 4 HURRICANE IAN !!!
BEST !
RWS
THIS. Seal all exposed core edges with epoxy. Unfortunately a short cut in production which proves costly years later.
