Portable Fuel Bladder for Range Extension of Trip

[Billfletcher]

I am considering purchasing the 50 gal bladder, and lashing it on the bow. I would run 1/2 in hose, about 20 ft to fill the tanks through the deck plug. It will be used once or twice a year to hit some offshore islands.

Has anyone used these? In particular:

Did the fuel transfer easily from the bladder to your tank?

Were you able to secure it fairly well?

If it's only used periodically, can you keep the internals clean and prevent nasty stuff and/or condensation from forming in the residual diesel when the bladder is stored off season in your garage?

Any other input would be appreciated.

 

[dvx216]

My question is would 360 pounds of fuel be any concern being up on your bow in roughly a 4 foot square.

 

[hottoddie]

How difficult would it be to use if the seas were rough?

 

[Billfletcher]

The weight is a concern. But, I would max out at 50 gals, so I believe it should be ok.

i posted the same comments to a forum with a lot of sport fishers. Overall, a lot of folks are using these with good results.

this would be a one off deal, each year, and gives me just a little more range I need ,to hit some islands, without having to stop at the one touristy island with the gas station before heading home.

i am also planning a trip up the coast to northern cal one of these days when I retire, so this would be something I would use.

 

[Lazy Daze]

I don't have experience with this exact project, but I do occasionally carry extra fuel (although not as much as you're planning on doing), but also am quite familiar with the use of "fat sacks", which are essentially the same thing but instead hold water. We use these for wakeboarding (extra ballast for a better wake) and they are easily twice the size of what you are looking at.

Securing a floppy bag full of fuel would be my main concern. I actually think the weight should be OK since it's spread out over a large area. The bag, however, is going to want to rock-n-roll and it might be hard to properly secure it with just cargo straps. Besides, the cargo straps could possibly "wear" into the bag, which wouldn't be good (although they do seem to made quite well). Aside from making a huge mess, though, it would be a big EPA fine, too. I don't know if there is, or isn't, but you might want to check to see if it's even legal to carry fuel that way. It might need to be carried inboard somewhere.

IF you can legally carry it on deck, I think you'd need to build some type of box to hold the bag. Next, what would the box be secured to? Hand rails going down the center of the deck?

I think if this were me, I would find a place either in the aft cockpit (under a bench seat?) or the bilge. Besides, I don't think you'll be able to effectively "gravity transfer" the fuel from the foredeck to your fuel fill deckplate. So, either way, you'd need a transfer pump.

I don't think residual diesel will be a problem, especially if you treat it, first. When the bag gets so empty that no fuel can no longer be pumped out, it should be light enough for you to pick it up and turn it around to get most of the fuel out.

 

[Woody]

I'm guessing you'll use this fuel when you get to your destination and when your tanks will accept all the bladder contents...do the drain process once and stow the bladder. To get them as empty as possible it says to lift and roll them up toward the outlet. Should be easy enough while anchored in calm waters. I did see a sketch showing a grounding strap to the bladder, is that a gasser thing?

 

[LTD.330]

How much of your vision will be blocked from the helm with the bladder bag on the bow?

Since you said fuel was available, I would avoid all of the potential problems and just top off before heading home. The risk and hassle isn't worth it in my opinion.

 

[IanBat]

Can't comment on the bow.... I purchased. 750L, which is only around 20gallon..
We tied it down on the cockpit deck..when we filled it, I ended up not filling it, we stopped. 300L, less than 10gal. As it was farly bloated at that. We were about to run back into Bass Strait.
We had it solidly locked down, but I had concerns with what it may do to the handling of the boat, should we hit any swell.

Your talking 50 gallons, that's a big bag on the bow, 1900L so 1900kg, that's a heck of a lot of weight......


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[Sea Gull]

Ian, you are missing a decimal place which may impact your suggestions. 750 liters is close to 200 gallons not 20. 300 liters is 80 gallons, and the OP is talking about 50 gallons which is 190 liters, not 1900!

 

[fwebster]

Fuel bladders are fairly common here as people cross the Gulf in smaller boats with limited range.

I am not familiar with this particular brand, but I have a real concern with the bow location. How will you get the fuel from the bow to your tanks when you are in any kind of seas at all? Everybody I know puts bladders in the corner of the cockpit near the fuel fill deck plates. 50 gal is only 300lbs. of weight which is like 2 small adults....not enough to meaningfully affect trim. In a 4-5 ft sea, I'd much rather be pumping fuel in a cockpit location than one on the bow.

 

[Billfletcher]

I connected with quite a few people that have used these on some large journeys. Mainly offshore SF, and trawlers Their website has a lot of details as well.

The Atl product has lines that will lash it down at all 4 corners, fore and aft. It still may shift, so I would dry run it. I also have some ideas to keep it secure up there.

i am not overly concerned with 350 lb of weight. I am buying the lower profile, pillow version so that weight is distributed over a decent sized area. The height is 12 in, and the bladder will be placed about 6 ft in front of the windshield so vis Impact should be minimal.

The material is military spec grade, and used for bladded in the thousands of gals. And allowed to be used by the USCG. I have not heard of a leak, or rupture from anyone. Very different config than a water bag.

The idea is to go, stop, and fill whatever you have burned and put the bag away. I could gravity drain from the bow, along the gunwale to the deck fitting to the tank.

 

[Billfletcher]

Hi Frank, I agree, filling in seas would be no Bueno. I am heading to San Clemente Island this summer. It's a desolate island operated by the navy. I use to go there on sport fishing boats in the 70 and 80's when I was a sun burned young deck hand. My goal has been to go boat back on my own boat. Now that I have diesels, it's possible. This extra 50 gives me just enough extra to explore, run the gen, and not have to run 30 miles to Catalina to refuel, before heading home. I would use the bag on the Lee side of the island, where it's very protected and calm.

Fuel bladders are fairly common here as people cross the Gulf in smaller boats with limited range.

I am not familiar with this particular brand, but I have a real concern with the bow location. How will you get the fuel from the bow to your tanks when you are in any kind of seas at all? Everybody I know puts bladders in the corner of the cockpit near the fuel fill deck plates. 50 gal is only 300lbs. of weight which is like 2 small adults....not enough to meaningfully affect trim. In a 4-5 ft sea, I'd much rather be pumping fuel in a cockpit location than one on the bow.

 

[All's Well]

I know a guy that used one of these 10 years or so ago when he would re-position his Sedan Bridge from St Louis to Ft. Lauderdale in the fall. He would place it on the rear deck between the sliding door and the stern. I don't believe that he ever had issues with leaks and would use a pump to transfer the fuel.

 

[Billfletcher]

Ian, we are still using a units version based on the Imperial system, even though we kicked those guys out years ago.

Ian, you are missing a decimal place which may impact your suggestions. 750 liters is close to 200 gallons not 20. 300 liters is 80 gallons, and the OP is talking about 50 gallons which is 190 liters, not 1900!

 

[HUMPH]

Just curious, how many nautical miles is the trip one way? What is your fuel capacity and what is your burn rate at the speed you plan on running? 1/3 - 1/3 - 1/3 is a good rule. I would hate to see it be 3/4 tank round trip plus generator and day trips while there. I know a 560DB that used to bladder up and cruise at slow speed to Cabi San Lucas from the Bay Area. They kept them below deck though. I like the idea of cockpit storage then empty at your destination and stow the rolled up bladder for the rest of the trip. The farthest run I have taken was 185 gallons one way but plenty of fueling opportunities along the way.

 

[IanBat]

Ian, you are missing a decimal place which may impact your suggestions. 750 liters is close to 200 gallons not 20. 300 liters is 80 gallons, and the OP is talking about 50 gallons which is 190 liters, not 1900!

Crap your correct...

50 x3.8 = 190L, ........

That would be comfortable on the bow, equivalent to around two people sitting up there.
Just have a real good look at your tie down points.
We had to fit two extra, tie down points in the cockpit, which I fitted large aluminium spreader plates to.
We also used ratchet straps to secure it and ropes over the top of the bladder to minimise weight sloshing.




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[northern]

Where is your water tank and how much does it hold? We have 100 gallons of water on the boat under the aft cabin. When we fill it the boat might go down 1/2" weight=800 pounds. We have carried seven 5 gallon (CDN=6US) cans of gas on the swim platform without any effect on the boat. West Marine sells 25 gallon solid portable fuel tanks. I have 2 of them on my jetboat when we go on long trips. We make sure they are tied down so they do not move. We draw fuel from them first.

 

[Lazy Daze]

The material is military spec grade, and used for bladded in the thousands of gals. And allowed to be used by the USCG. I have not heard of a leak, or rupture from anyone. Very different config than a water bag.

I never doubted that they're of sturdy material, at all. I was concerned more with the ability/inability to properly secure it on the bow. Seeing that they're in that "pillow" shape you talk about, rolling around is much less of an issue. You may already know this, but I would still verify that it's legal to carry it on your bow - just to be sure - since a leak would go directly overboard.

Weight is even less of an issue than one might think. When you consider the surface area that the 350lbs is spread out over, it's A LOT less "lbs per sq in" than someone standing or sitting.

Gravity filling... unless I'm mistaken, doesn't the "output" nozzle come off the top of the bag? You'd have to establish a siphon and I'm not sure you could keep that siphon going all that easily as the bag started to empty. I think there would be a point where it would start to either make it very difficult, or just lose it all together. It may not be "that bad" to fill from the bow, as the transfer pump could still be back in the cockpit. But it still would make things MUCH simpler if everything was in the cockpit?

 

[Woody]

Just curious, how many nautical miles is the trip one way? What is your fuel capacity and what is your burn rate at the speed you plan on running? 1/3 - 1/3 - 1/3 is a good rule. I would hate to see it be 3/4 tank round trip plus generator and day trips while there. I know a 560DB that used to bladder up and cruise at slow speed to Cabi San Lucas from the Bay Area. They kept them below deck though. I like the idea of cockpit storage then empty at your destination and stow the rolled up bladder for the rest of the trip. The farthest run I have taken was 185 gallons one way but plenty of fueling opportunities along the way.

If I used that 1/3 rule with my 280DA I wouldn't have been able to get anywhere before turning around and heading back to home.:lol:

 

[Woody]

I connected with quite a few people that have used these on some large journeys. Mainly offshore SF, and trawlers Their website has a lot of details as well.

The Atl product has lines that will lash it down at all 4 corners, fore and aft. It still may shift, so I would dry run it. I also have some ideas to keep it secure up there.

i am not overly concerned with 350 lb of weight. I am buying the lower profile, pillow version so that weight is distributed over a decent sized area. The height is 12 in, and the bladder will be placed about 6 ft in front of the windshield so vis Impact should be minimal.

The material is military spec grade, and used for bladded in the thousands of gals. And allowed to be used by the USCG. I have not heard of a leak, or rupture from anyone. Very different config than a water bag.

The idea is to go, stop, and fill whatever you have burned and put the bag away. I could gravity drain from the bow, along the gunwale to the deck fitting to the tank.

I wonder how fast the bag will drain? I see they have a 1" outlet option that would make it faster.