Police State?

JerryS

JerryS

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May 17, 2010
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There is an interesting piece being run on CNN about a woman in Rochester, NY who was arrested while videotaping an arrest scene. The setting is in a residential section of Rochester at night. The police do a traffic stop and are in the process of arresting the driver. A woman comes out of her house and starts videotaping the arrest while standing in her yard. One officer tells her to move back into her house. The woman claims that she is within her rights to stand in her yard and videotape the arrest. The officer tells her that he is concerned for officer safety, does not want her standing behind them and to go back into her house. She refuses and the officer subsequently arrests the woman.

The interesting part to me, which everyone seems to be overlooking, is that the woman, when interviewed says that she was in her yard with her friend. But,the officer never addresses the other person, only the woman doing the videotaping. Further, when the officer arrests the woman, the friend obviously takes the video recorder from the woman and videos the arrest of the woman by the officer.

So, my question is, is this a power play between an officer and a citizen or is this a situation where the police are trying to stop everyone from videotaping what they are doing?

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2011/06/25/nr.woman.arrested.cnn?hpt=hp_t2
 
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Sounds like an "infringement" of the woman's rights to me. This sounds like a case I heard recently, in that case all was dropped.
 
Sound limke over step of police power, judge should throw out the arrest.
 
Check 1:02, 1:27, 1:41, 2:06...Hmmmm, activist looking for trouble and found it! She was pretty close! She should get a camcorder with a zoom so she can be more involved in her activist lifestyle...just sayin!

Also, I wonder why it's on CNN and not Fox:huh:
 
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Unfortunately I feel this is only going to get worst, I see so much apathy and hear the term PC and interpersonal bandied about so much, for many today the term "Sheople," aptly applies.
 
Having been a cop for many years and knowing how cops work, I think she pi$$ed off the cop, he decided to exert his "power" and ordered her back into the house. IMO that was not a lawful order so she had no duty to obey it. When she didn't obey his order (in other works, succumb to his exercising of his power) he placed her under arrest.

I suspect the DA is going to review it, dismiss the charge against the woman and get prepared to defend against a lawsuit for unlawful arrest. They'll settle out of court for a couple hundred thousand and everyone will quietly go their own way. The officer will (and should) be reprimanded and receive some time off or some other disciplinary action.

GFC
 
Gofirstclass said:
Having been a cop for many years and knowing how cops work, I think she pi$$ed off the cop, he decided to exert his "power" and ordered her back into the house. IMO that was not a lawful order so she had no duty to obey it. When she didn't obey his order (in other works, succumb to his exercising of his power) he placed her under arrest.

I suspect the DA is going to review it, dismiss the charge against the woman and get prepared to defend against a lawsuit for unlawful arrest. They'll settle out of court for a couple hundred thousand and everyone will quietly go their own way. The officer will (and should) be reprimanded and receive some time off or some other disciplinary action.

GFC
Click to expand...

...And the taxpayers pay for it.

GFC: well explained. :smt038
 
But if this arrest went sideways....say the perp would have taken the cops gun while he was distracted by the woman and started shooting and hit the woman activist, then she (or a family member had she been killed) would have sued using her video to show how close the Police "allowed" her to be to the arrest! It's not wise to get up close and personal to a "live" arrest if you are not involved...duh!!! I'll quit on this as I agree with PCness running ammuck, but listening to the sarcasm from the woman to the police, she was looking for it! There needs to be some sort of message sent here to this "activist". Funny how tough she was and then started "apologizing" to the officer...hmmmm
 
I'm think the woman was just looking for the next Rodney King moment, but she did have the right to be in her yard and doing what she was doing as long as she wasn't interfering with the officers in the performance of their duties. I also think the officer could of used better discretion. The technology that enables the common citizen to do this has been around for several years and is here to stay so I think better training of the police is in order.

I don't think there was a safety issue as the subject was cuffed and headed to the back seat of the cruiser when the video starts, and there are 2 other officers on the scene that obviously didn't seem to be concerned about her being in her yard. I know that I don't like it when someone stands over my shoulder when I'm doing my job, but I'm not a public servant.
 
I'd like to know what she said to the cops before she started recording, the office says obviously you are anti police based on what you said to us before you started recording?

Don't know if that would make a difference though..
 
I did not view this particular tape, but the scene sounds common. A police officer acting in public capacity (i.e. Making an arrest), in a public place, possibly recording the scene himself, has no reasonable expectation of privacy. Therefore, a non-interfering bystander is not violating any privacy laws in recording the scene. This is still an open, free country.

Now, if the suspect was recording the scene - that would be quite interesting to discuss.
 
The relationship between police and the public they serve is sadly deteriorating. When I was a young the authorities were respected, gave respect, served the public, and known visible members of the community. There are several factors in this breakdown I would like to highlight.

Over regulation and the me, me, me society: we try to regulate so much of life that people now pick and choose what they will and won't follow. We now have created an environment that, take many boaters, would rather not see the CG. Why, they might find a minor violation and penalize us, even though we all want them to save us if in danger. Our children see this reaction and others, such as watching for cops while speeding, and perpetuate this feeling. Many folks see police as part of big brother out to get them and sometimes they are right.


The failed war on drugs: we have lost more civil liberties to this than most realize. We cannot even keep drugs out of prisons, how are we going to keep a substance with up to a 1700% profit margin out of our country? This fight has hardened criminals, and law enforcement, many cops feel you are guilty until you prove you are innocent.

The police as a revenue source: in many jurisdictions if it doesn't pay there is little enforcement, but if it pays look out. This creates an adversarial relationship with the very community police are to serve. Rarely do I see community work in progress, police used to direct traffic when the signals failed, no more. When I called to ask why: the bottom line, it doesn't pay.

Unionization and fraternal membership, and behavior: police used to be known by the community they served, now they ride in souped-up menacing looking Chargers and the like. Most I've met don't want to live where they work and are highly distrustful of all but family and others in law enforcement. Because the public is now afraid the officers they patronize them giving them a big ego trip, but doing nothing to foster good relations.

We are black and white on issues, no gray: we have removed discretion from many situations that allow for good community policing. Sometimes people need a break, but we've got dash cams in place of judgment.

There will be some on both sides that will not fit this pattern, but whenever you see a law enforcement officer do you slow down, start to worry about minor details that they could play gotcha with? Generally law abiding citizens shouldn't need to feel this way.
 
Its only a badge...not a crown.
 
MonacoMike said:
The relationship between police and the public they serve is sadly deteriorating. When I was a young the authorities were respected, gave respect, served the public, and known visible members of the community. There are several factors in this breakdown I would like to highlight.

Over regulation and the me, me, me society: we try to regulate so much of life that people now pick and choose what they will and won't follow. We now have created an environment that, take many boaters, would rather not see the CG. Why, they might find a minor violation and penalize us, even though we all want them to save us if in danger. Our children see this reaction and others, such as watching for cops while speeding, and perpetuate this feeling. Many folks see police as part of big brother out to get them and sometimes they are right.


The failed war on drugs: we have lost more civil liberties to this than most realize. We cannot even keep drugs out of prisons, how are we going to keep a substance with up to a 1700% profit margin out of our country? This fight has hardened criminals, and law enforcement, many cops feel you are guilty until you prove you are innocent.

The police as a revenue source: in many jurisdictions if it doesn't pay there is little enforcement, but if it pays look out. This creates an adversarial relationship with the very community police are to serve. Rarely do I see community work in progress, police used to direct traffic when the signals failed, no more. When I called to ask why: the bottom line, it doesn't pay.

Unionization and fraternal membership, and behavior: police used to be known by the community they served, now they ride in souped-up menacing looking Chargers and the like. Most I've met don't want to live where they work and are highly distrustful of all but family and others in law enforcement. Because the public is now afraid the officers they patronize them giving them a big ego trip, but doing nothing to foster good relations.

We are black and white on issues, no gray: we have removed discretion from many situations that allow for good community policing. Sometimes people need a break, but we've got dash cams in place of judgment.

There will be some on both sides that will not fit this pattern, but whenever you see a law enforcement officer do you slow down, start to worry about minor details that they could play gotcha with? Generally law abiding citizens shouldn't need to feel this way.
Click to expand...

When I was 23, I had almost the exact same encounter, minus the camera. The officer asked me to go back inside. Being 23 and cocky I got a little belligerent, saying something about private property etc. The officer proceeded to handcuff me and deposit me into the back seat of his squad car. After I was safely tucked away, he continued with his traffic stop. When he was done, he got in his car and talked to me in what can only be described as a parent talking to his kids. He wasn't mean or high and mighty about it either. He explained his position to me and then let me go. This was 1982 and that has stuck with me ever since.
 
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Let’s try to separate feeling from fact.

1. Officer said he felt threatened. How so? I don't care if she was standing in her yard in full fatigues and rifle. It's her right as a property owner. If I’m standing in my yard with a perpetrator being arrested near my door step, I hope he feels threatened by me.
2. The news commentator asked if she was an activist. She did not bring it up the commentator did. Not an in your face hater like most activists do. She doesn't even name a group she is affiliated with. If this was an activist action then where is the publicity for the group she represents?
3. The cop arrested her on her property. How many times have I read on this site about what would happen if an intruder was caught on your property? Does the badge take that right away? No warrant then no right to enter.
4. What she said or didn't say to the cop prior to the first scene of the video has no bearing on the arrest. Isn't freedom of speech a protected right in this county? Or are statements made to a police officer exempt?
5. Not once did the officer offer that he was afraid for her and the danger that may be present for her. This was purely about the cop not wanting the arrest videoed and there is no law against such action on or off her property.
6. The officer didn’t asker to stop filming, he ordered her into her house. As there was no marshal laws or curfew declared, she had every right to refuse his demand. He said he was going to arrest her for not doing what he asked. He never asked he demanded.

I have friends that are police officers and I can say I have the utmost respect for them. If one asks me to return to my home and has good reason to make the request I have no problem yielding to their request. But no one is going to order me in or out of my home or on or off my property. Their demand will be met with extreme prejudice and swift action.
 
UPDATE:​
WHEC-TV reports that Emily Good is no stranger to conflict:​
I-Team 10 has learned she’s no stranger to police. She was arrested in March with a group of others who tried to block a home on Ravenwood Avenue from foreclosure. Ironically, police videotaped Good and other protesters while arresting them that day.​
 
The end result will probably be as GFC has stated. The officer let the woman get to him with her videotaping. Although it will cost the taxpayers, I feel that it is probably a necessary deterrent to keep police power in check.

I'm old enough to remember when National Guard troops went onto the campus of Kent State University and shot several protesting students. I was stunned at the time to see our government turning guns on it's citizens just because they were protesting.

So, I firmly believe that when the police overstep their authority, it needs to be addressed.
 
One of the common strategies for police to gain permission to infringe upon your 4th Amendment rights is the phrase "if you don't have anything to hide, I'm sure you won't mind if I take a look?" Likewise, if the police have nothing to hide...I'm sure they won't mind if law abiding citizens capture the occasion for posterity.

The fact is (and we all know it) that many times the police DO have something to hide...and in fact we privately support the idea of the endangered poor cop that throws a handgun next to a dead drug dealing thug to protect himself from the IA investigation that would ruin his life, or the drop bag of dope to get a conviction against the slimeball dealing deadly black ice, or the clever 'bending of the rules' to keep the child molester off the streets...don't believe it? Look at who we are cheering for in the movies and cop shows...the independent rule breaking cops. Who do we vilify? The panty-waist mealy mouth loser rule-follower tight*** (in fact, he's usually the one that gets killed horribly, along with his family, in the movies). Traffic enforcement is largely about revenue rather than safety. Drug enforcement is a national disaster and the intrusions into our lives we have granted in exchange for perceived safety from these "threats" is a fool's bargain. We know that the safety arguments against videotaping are just as big a lie as 2 am traffic stops for lane violations (if it were really important, there'd be more of it during daylight hours). We'll know that the thin line between "protector" and "threat" is clearly delinieated when law abilding citizens don't fear the interaction and the police aren't afraid of its memorialization.
 
We have to put a stop to this, before long the people will be demanding the right to gather, own arms, freedom of speech and religion....... King George 1774

PS: I just made up that quote...but I bet $1 he was thinking it.
 
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