Paid for charter/captain services - Insurance/Legalities Discussion

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douglee25

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2008
4,761
Dallas, TX
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Cruisers 3575
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Twin 7.4l
What is the insurance legalities or responsibility on 'paid for charter' opportunities?

I have been approached by others and thought about offering my captain services to small groups. What happens if it's a paid for charter? I assume I'm responsible for others and their safety? Is this something I could run by my lawyer and have them draft up something to reduce/avoid responsibility if they sign? Does anyone have something worth sharing?

Any experience? Thoughts?
 
Doug, I don’t know sht about it. But my first impression is that the liability to take a few folks out on a boat trip “paid” (fishing, cruise, whale watching) far exceeds the few bucks you would make.
I have a lot of friends want to go out on my boat for a day, always asking, my reply… I’ll get back to you.
PS Run by lawyer, but I can guarantee you that if someone dies, injured, etc, you are going to be sued, or spend time eating bologna sandwiches.
Once you are paid it’s a whole new ballgame.
Let me tell y’all this,,, if you accept money for gas from a ‘friend’ and they get hurt, under admirality law they have paid you for passage and can sue you. Ya, look it up.
 
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Check your policy, but I think that there will be an exclusion if you are being paid as a captain or charter.
 
This guy, good fisherman, decided to be a charter captain. First trip, picture explains. By now, he has probably lost his house, cars, savings, everything. And the litigation is still ongoing….
C4C77F56-3643-4590-B63A-B66255E2DB85.jpeg
 
Pirate Lady said:
Doug, I don’t know sht about it. But my first impression is that the liability to take a few folks out on a boat trip “paid” (fishing, cruise, whale watching) far exceeds the few bucks you would make.
Click to expand...

No idea about other areas, but in Michigan waters, as a commercial captain you would also have to give up your flare gun. Only hand held are allowed. No "gun" of any kind permitted.

How in H&!! is that supposed to make you safer if TSHTF ??



I think the punch-line is "I'm from the gubmint and I'm here to help"
 
douglee25 said:
What is the insurance legalities or responsibility on 'paid for charter' opportunities?

I have been approached by others and thought about offering my captain services to small groups. What happens if it's a paid for charter? I assume I'm responsible for others and their safety? Is this something I could run by my lawyer and have them draft up something to reduce/avoid responsibility if they sign? Does anyone have something worth sharing?

Any experience? Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I would recommend that you speak with an attorney there in Texas to get specific advise and not here. The attorney should review your commercial policy and suggest if a liability waiver is enforceable there. Most of these waivers are challenged as being "against public policy" so even with an agreement signed by everyone individually onboard, you will probably be sued if there is an accident.
 
I guess I could chime in as I am a capt and have a company. First if using your boat, it would need to meet the OUPV regulations including documentation, Type I life vests, Epirb and the list goes on. Then insurance on your vessel needs to change. If acting as a Capt for hire, then you need to verify that the boat owner has you on the policy as a Capt for hire and their policy covers you (in theory). I would also add my own insurance as a Capt for hire on someone else's boat as a just in case to protect myself.
 
All good points. Didn't know if anyone had specific experience. I know a guy who charters through a company that he's a member of. They apparently take care of all the insurance, etc as part of their cut. Unsure how legit it all is.
 
TimW said:
No idea about other areas, but in Michigan waters, as a commercial captain you would also have to give up your flare gun. Only hand held are allowed. No "gun" of any kind permitted.

How in H&!! is that supposed to make you safer if TSHTF ??

I think the punch-line is "I'm from the gubmint and I'm here to help"
Click to expand...
Do you mean no flare gun just on commercial boats? Seems strange they'd outlaw an approved signaling device just because it's commercial. Couldn't find it in the regs.
THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931

750.231c “Aircraft,” “approved signaling device,” and “vessel” defined; sections inapplicable to approved signaling device; sale, purchase, possession, or use of approved signaling device; violation as misdemeanor; penalties.

Sec. 231c.

(1) As used in this section:
(a) "Aircraft" means aircraft as defined in section 43.
(b) "Approved signaling device" means a pistol which is a signaling device approved by the United States coast guard pursuant to regulations issued under former section 4488 of the Revised Statutes of the United States, 46 U.S.C. Appx. 481, or under former section 5 of the federal boat safety act of 1971, Public Law 92-75, 46 U.S.C. 1454.
(c) "Vessel" means every description of watercraft, other than a seaplane on the water, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.
 
Woody said:
Do you mean no flare gun just on commercial boats? Seems strange they'd outlaw an approved signaling device just because it's commercial. Couldn't find it in the regs.
THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931




750.231c “Aircraft,” “approved signaling device,” and “vessel” defined; sections inapplicable to approved signaling device; sale, purchase, possession, or use of approved signaling device; violation as misdemeanor; penalties.

Sec. 231c.

(1) As used in this section:
(a) "Aircraft" means aircraft as defined in section 43.
(b) "Approved signaling device" means a pistol which is a signaling device approved by the United States coast guard pursuant to regulations issued under former section 4488 of the Revised Statutes of the United States, 46 U.S.C. Appx. 481, or under former section 5 of the federal boat safety act of 1971, Public Law 92-75, 46 U.S.C. 1454.
(c) "Vessel" means every description of watercraft, other than a seaplane on the water, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.
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It is under the visual distress signals section of DNRs rules on vessels carrying passengers for hire.
https://ars.apps.lara.state.mi.us/A...deFile?FileName=1532_2015-031NR_AdminCode.pdf




PS: Gotta remember the DNR ain’t the sharpest tools in the shed.
 
douglee25, I'm guessing this will be on Lake Lewisville? My bet would be many who would want to hire you are going to want visit the party cove, even just the outskirts, and will be drinking. Some heavily. That would scare the living bejesus out of me as the captain and solely responsible for their wellbeing.

I know when we were out with a big group (unpaid) my responsibility was to captain the boat and my wife's was to monitor the dumb***es. While underway she enforced (nicely) no sitting on the gunwales, no walking out on the platform, no moving forward to the foredeck, etc. When you get a bigger crowd that's a full-time job.

I'm not sure what kind of money you can earn doing this but it better be a lot.
 
mquiet said:
I guess I could chime in as I am a capt and have a company. First if using your boat, it would need to meet the OUPV regulations including documentation, Type I life vests, Epirb and the list goes on. Then insurance on your vessel needs to change. If acting as a Capt for hire, then you need to verify that the boat owner has you on the policy as a Capt for hire and their policy covers you (in theory). I would also add my own insurance as a Capt for hire on someone else's boat as a just in case to protect myself.
Click to expand...

Sounds like @mquiet hit all the required points.
 
@douglee25 are you inquiring about https://www.boatsetter.com/ ?

https://www.boatsetter.com/safety#insurance
...
In addition, the following boats will require additional documentation in order to be underwritten at the discretion of BoatUS:
  • Boats older than 25 years
  • Boats exceeding $250,000 in value
  • Boats exceeding 40 feet in length
  • Wooden boats
  • Pontoon boats, houseboats, multihull sailboats, and custom built boats
  • Engine types other than outboard, inboard/outboard (sterndrive), or inboard
  • Boats capable of speeds in excess of 50 mph or with more than 2 outboard engines...
If the Boat Owner acts as Captain or provides a Captain for the Rental:

  • The designated Captain must have all necessary and required licenses, permits and certificates to operate the boat and these must be in full force and effect during the rental
 
Negative.

I don't remember the name of the rental outfit. Essentially they broker boats/Captains to rent for X time. The company provides the booking and handles the transaction and the insurance. Similar to those who rent out their RV. The service does everything including provide supplemental insurance and they take a certain percentage of the transaction amount.
 
How much personal liability are you willing to accept? If your an unlicensed captain, would that immediately translate to responsibility?
 
copb8tx said:
douglee25, I'm guessing this will be on Lake Lewisville? My bet would be many who would want to hire you are going to want visit the party cove, even just the outskirts, and will be drinking. Some heavily. That would scare the living bejesus out of me as the captain and solely responsible for their wellbeing.

I know when we were out with a big group (unpaid) my responsibility was to captain the boat and my wife's was to monitor the dumb***es. While underway she enforced (nicely) no sitting on the gunwales, no walking out on the platform, no moving forward to the foredeck, etc. When you get a bigger crowd that's a full-time job.

I'm not sure what kind of money you can earn doing this but it better be a lot.
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There are quite a few Captains doing this now on the lake. From small boats to pontoons to larger boats. One of my middle aged friends does this during his retirement weekdays. He said mainly they want to get out on the water and tie up in a cove. He doesn't allow stupid drunk antics to occur. He said he instructs the group if it begins to happen, back to the dock they go. I had a guy the other week walking down the main dock looking for a captain to take his group out. They were from out of town, scheduled their visit, and the captain canceled on them. They offered me $1800 for 2-3 hours. I declined due to the risk, however, it got me thinking and hence this post.
 
FootballFan said:
How much personal liability are you willing to accept? If your an unlicensed captain, would that immediately translate to responsibility?
Click to expand...

Currently I'm not... That's why I've declined. However, if I can eliminate or transfer risk, I would entertain it and market it to more upscale clients. 1500 x 2-3 charters/day is nothing to sneeze at.
 
This what I see as the risk.

Lewisville is a very dangerous lake. If you look at the statistics, its off the charts. Was on a plane a while back with an individual from corp of engineers. We started talking about lakes in Texas, he shared a lot of stats about just how many incidents, accidents, and injuries happened on that lake.

Its not about how safe a captain - or how good a captain a person is - this is truly is about what the other guy does.

When we had a boat there I was talking with a dockmate who had come in shaken up. He also had a ski boat. He was pulling a skier behind his boat, another boat went between the skier and the back of his boat on plane. This stuff happens on that lake.

These captains can be doing a great job. Then someone else does something stupid like running into the boat they are sitting still, not moving, on. Lawsuit happens when an attorney discovers an unlicensed captain who was operating one of the vessels for hire.

Doubt that liability would be picked up by insurance. Your insurance company would fight it. Just my opinion.

The numbers sounds like a great business opportunity in terms of revenue potential. My thought would be get a license - that is your best liability defense. Just my thoughts.
 
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