One Side Electrical Problem

I believe the op swapped the batteries and it didn’t solve the problem. If that wiring diagram is correct then it looks to me like the emergency start switch just supplies positive power. This would mean that if u replaced the battery switch and it didn’t solve the problem then u can follow the positive side back from the emergency start switch to the starboard battery switch. When u apply the emergency start switch everything works fine which tells me that your problem is not forward of the emergency switch, but between it and the starboard side. Another test I would find interesting would be to disconnect the working port batteries and use the emergency start switch to see if the starboard bank would power the port side
 
liv2ryde100 said:
I believe the op swapped the batteries and it didn’t solve the problem. If that wiring diagram is correct then it looks to me like the emergency start switch just supplies positive power. This would mean that if u replaced the battery switch and it didn’t solve the problem then u can follow the positive side back from the emergency start switch to the starboard battery switch. When u apply the emergency start switch everything works fine which tells me that your problem is not forward of the emergency switch, but between it and the starboard side. Another test I would find interesting would be to disconnect the working port batteries and use the emergency start switch to see if the starboard bank would power the port side
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Flytrade said:
I disconnected both batteries from the battery cable on the "bad" system, and then used jumper cables to connect the two good batteries to the battery cable I just disconnected. This completely eliminated the two batteries from the system. Same problem.
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Nope.....this isn't the way to test it.

If the problem didn't exist before he changed the batteries.....my money is on something simple. The likelihood of partial wiring failure that is in the battery cable path just doesn't seem likely. Bad battery terminal connectors and a dead cell are believable. There is also a corrosion coating that battery companies put on the terminals that needs to come off prior to attaching the connection.
 
I thought this was going to be an easy find and fix. I sure was wrong on that one. However, I may not have been clear, or may not have provided enough detailed info for you to accurately solve this problem.
Starting from the beginning - I got the boat about 3 months ago. Both engines started as normal. Over time, when starting the right engine, it turned over slower and slower. However, the left engine has always turned over as normal. I looked at the batteries, and they were 4.5 years old - and I thought it was a battery problem. Plus - that amount of time is about all I could expect out of a set of batteries, so I replaced them all. The new batteries did not fix anything.
Then last Thursday I went to start the engines. The left was normal, but when engaging the right starter it only made a clicking sound. We have all heard this sound many times throughout
the years with our cars - a low voltage battery that will not close the starter relay. Now, here is the kicker. I wanted to check the batteries, but the hatch would not open without the PS engaged. Then it worked normally. This means the hatch is on the same battery bus as the right engine, and since both were not working, it's not an engine problem.
I also don't believe it's a circuit breaker/fuse because that is like a light switch - it either works or not.
In a post above, it was thought the battery switch was the problem, so I changed it yesterday. However, I misdiagnosed the switch as being the problem because it only has two connectors - one for the current going in and one for the current going out. Since the left engine starts normally, and it gets its current from this same switch, that means the switch is not the problem. Now I have new batteries and a new switch, and the same old problem.
If you all like a mystery, I think we have one here.
 
After thinking about this a little more, I would like your thoughts on this.
Since the left engine starts normally, we know the batteries and switch are good because they have either been switched around or replaced.
We also know the left battery bus is good because it starts the left engine. However, there could be a problem with the right battery bus in that it's not supplying sufficient power to the right engine. There certainly could be a part on the bus that is draining the system, or some other malfunction between the buss and the engine, but how about a bad buss ground? The PS connects both busses, and that also would supply the needed ground for the entire system, which solves the problem.
 
Flytrade said:
After thinking about this a little more, I would like your thoughts on this.
Since the left engine starts normally, we know the batteries and switch are good because they have either been switched around or replaced.
We also know the left battery bus is good because it starts the left engine. However, there could be a problem with the right battery bus in that it's not supplying sufficient power to the right engine. There certainly could be a part on the bus that is draining the system, or some other malfunction between the buss and the engine, but how about a bad buss ground? The PS connects both busses, and that also would supply the needed ground for the entire system, which solves the problem.
Click to expand...
From looking at the wiring diagram I was under the impression that the ps only supplies power and does not supply a ground, maybe I am wrong?
 
Flytrade said:
Here is the latest. I installed a new battery switch today, but no change.
I then switched the batteries - side one to side two, so the opposite set of batteries are now being used to start the right engine. Again no change.
When I try to start the right engine, sometimes it will turn over slowly, and other times it will just sound like the stater solenoid is not engaging - just making a clicking sound like it's not getting enough voltage. However, when I use the PS the right engine turns over very well and starts.
That tells me the ground to the engine must be okay. However, I must be losing voltage someplace. It's still a mystery, but I appreciate all your comments.
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I may have missed this in a previous post...but just in case...I would put my meter on the battery, you should have at least 12-12.6 volts approximately. With meter connected attempt to crank the motor, the meter shouldn’t drop below 10 volts. If you pass that test you should be testing for voltage drop from connection to connection.
 
So the problem existed prior to the new batteries and got worse after the new batteries were installed?

If true, they only thing that could explain it is a corroded connection (either positive or negative connection). Partial voltage but not enough to run anything. It would explain things getting worse over time and problematic when you replaced the batteries.

The question remains if the Starboard batteries are fully charged and are not defective.

I'll put that question aside for a moment and suggest that you do some direct testing between the starboard bank and the engine.

Use your jumper cables and provide:

1) Make a ground connection between the starboard (negative) battery bank and the starboard engine. Does this make the engine spin normally?

2) Remove the negative connection and make a positive connection between the starboard (positive) battery bank and the starter on the starboard engine. Does this make the engine spin normally?

I think it is a fair bet that 1 or 2 will point you in the right direction.

It may also be useful to give the previous owner a call and see if he has any insights to the problem.
 
Jersey Mike said:
I may have missed this in a previous post...but just in case...I would put my meter on the battery, you should have at least 12-12.6 volts approximately. With meter connected attempt to crank the motor, the meter shouldn’t drop below 10 volts. If you pass that test you should be testing for voltage drop from connection to connection.
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The new batteries read 12.9 volts, and hardly drop at all when the starter is engaged. But a good thought.
 
PlayDate said:
So the problem existed prior to the new batteries and got worse after the new batteries were installed?

If true, they only thing that could explain it is a corroded connection (either positive or negative connection). Partial voltage but not enough to run anything. It would explain things getting worse over time and problematic when you replaced the batteries.

The question remains if the Starboard batteries are fully charged and are not defective.

I'll put that question aside for a moment and suggest that you do some direct testing between the starboard bank and the engine.

Use your jumper cables and provide:

1) Make a ground connection between the starboard (negative) battery bank and the starboard engine. Does this make the engine spin normally?

2) Remove the negative connection and make a positive connection between the starboard (positive) battery bank and the starter on the starboard engine. Does this make the engine spin normally?

I think it is a fair bet that 1 or 2 will point you in the right direction.

It may also be useful to give the previous owner a call and see if he has any insights to the problem.
Click to expand...
 
1. Yes - the problem started before the new batteries were installed. I have checked all 4 batteries under load while trying to start, and they do not drop hardly any in voltage. Plus, there is only one cable going through the battery switch for the engines, and the left engine starts fine.
2. I tried your suggestion with a jumper cable going to ground on the battery and to the engine. No change. I could not do the positive experiment because that connection is in the back of the engine.
3. Here is another data point. With the external power disconnected the right start switch is dead. Nothing. I then turn on the external power and the converter, and I get a clicking sound as I try to start the engine - which I take as the selonoid trying to close. I then use the PS and the engine starts normally.
 
Flytrade said:
Plus, there is only one cable going through the battery switch for the engines, and the left engine starts fine.
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I thought your boat had two battery switches (or a multi-select switch).....one port and one starboard. Are you saying that your boat has only one switch and it is ON/OFF?

Thanks for doing the ground test.


wiringAlternate485x347.gif
 
Flytrade said:
3. Here is another data point. With the external power disconnected the right start switch is dead. Nothing. I then turn on the external power and the converter, and I get a clicking sound as I try to start the engine - which I take as the selonoid trying to close. I then use the PS and the engine starts normally.
Click to expand...

That appears to be the feed from the charger which is not enough to start the engine. I'm curious how the charging feed for the Starboard bank is showing up without the associated battery bank.
 
https://s3.amazonaws.com/srweb-pvt-prod-us-east-1-294962523550/static/owners-manuals/2006_320 Sundancer_320 Sundancer.pdf

Your Owner's Manual is excellent. I wish more older Sea Ray Manuals had this level of detail.

I think Craig had it right in Post #19. You have to follow the voltage and see where it stops. The charger is creating a false 12 volts on the Starboard bank. I would leave it switched off until you find out where the Starboard battery bank disappears. Also, the manual shows two separate battery switches (one for port, one for starboard) so I am still confused from your earlier post.
 
there is only one cable going through the battery switch for the engines, and the left engine starts fine.

there`s part of the problem . You need a positive cable from the battery to the switch and than a positive cable from the switch gong to the starter FOR EACH ENGINE 2 engines ,2 switches, 2 starting batteries
 
This is what I think your dealing with. By activating the emer switch your getting battery power from the other motor
your missing the battery connection
click to enlarge
 
The symptoms match. If the Starboard battery switch is off, it would explain the lack of 12 volts to the House and Starboard engine. Additionally it would explain why the engine starts with the Emergency Start switch and the backfeed from the charger.

I guess we are waiting for the OP to tell us what is going on with the battery switches.
 
PlayDate said:
I thought your boat had two battery switches (or a multi-select switch).....one port and one starboard. Are you saying that your boat has only one switch and it is ON/OFF?

Thanks for doing the ground test.


wiringAlternate485x347.gif
Click to expand...
You would think my boat would be wired as per your diagram, but it's not. Very strange. I have 4 batteries, but really 2 pairs of 2 batteries. I mean that two batteries are wired in parallel, and the other 2 are wired in parallel. That gives me 2 battery cables, each going through a separate battery switch. One switch for the "house" and the other for the engines/helm station. That is the switch I just changed. One battery wire going in, and one battery wire going out of the switch. Since the left engine starts fine, that means the wire going into he switch, and the switch, and the wire going out of the switch are fine. The problem must be "downstream" of the switch. I hope I made this clear.
 
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