Oil Filter Life

[cod]

Curious to get some expert opinions regarding oil filter life. Maintenance manual state changing oil every 250 hours or annually. Although I was on the boat every single weekend this summer with several trips, I only put 66 hours on the engines. I understand the reasons for changing the oil before the winter but any reason why the oil filter couldn't be drained, and refilled with new oil. Seems to me there is plenty of filtering life left in them. This was a suggestion by a parts supplier.

 

[Turtlesboat]

The time, trouble, mess, to save $30 on changing the filters seems like a... Change them and be done with it. Next year use the boat more so it feels like you got your money's worth on the filters.

 

[Alex F]

I agree with Mike. I highly doubt that you'll be able to get rid of all old oil by just draining the filter. If this was a good and safe idea I bet most people would do it. No question that there's plenty of life left in those filters, but since the boat will be stored over the winter and not used you just got to do what you got to do. I was discussing the same question regarding racors with a friend who's got friends in diesel trucking business for 30+ years. They all say that we (the boaters) are nuts to change racors every spring with only 50-150 engine hours range. My view is that it's a lot easier to do it once at the dock at the beginning of the season instead of having a risk of getting stuck when you're out in the open water on a trip.

I remember John's (Hampton) thread where he was calculating boating expanses and his "closing statement" was that the more we use our boats the less they cost us. Like Mike said, just put more hours on her next year, Steve.

 

[cod]

You guys didn't read the first sentence of my post...... I said "EXPERT" opinion!.....lol.. Seriously, I know it is only another $80-100 for the two filters but it just seems so wasteful. We are a disposal minded society.... I think the oil left in the filter would be minimal (percentage wise considering the engines hold 7- 8 gals. each) and you never get all of the oil out of the oil pan. I want to know if there are any I'll effects to the engines... Which I can't think of other than if the filter was damaged in anyway (kinked) during removal.

 

[fwebster]

The old oil filters contain all the contaminants removed from the engines during a years operation. What really seems wasteful is putting $85,000 worth of very expensive engine parts....rods, bearings liners, piston, valve train, turbos, etc .....at risk by recycling new oil thru all the junk in the filter to avoid spending $80.

Yes you can remove all the old oil in the engines if you use your onboard oil change system. Warm the engines thoroughly, shut down, pump all the old oil out that will come out, wait 30 minutes, pour a quart of new oil in the engine and then pump out everything you can with the oil change pump, which pumps from the lowest spot on the engine system.

 

[cod]

That's the answer and logic I was looking for..... Thanks Frank.. I was hoping to get your take on it as I value your expertise.....

 

[CV-23]

Here's a filter story: A guy buys a new van with a 350 V8 and changes the filter every two thousand miles and adds a quart of oil. He never changed the oil and the engine was still purring at 200,000 miles. It was standard dino oil. Go figure.

 

[Alex F]

Here's a filter story: A guy buys a new van with a 350 V8 and changes the filter every two thousand miles and adds a quart of oil. He never changed the oil and the engine was still purring at 200,000 miles. It was standard dino oil. Go figure.

Ask him to do an oil analyses. I bet that the bright side of the story won't be so bright any longer.

 

[Alex F]

....Yes you can remove all the old oil in the engines if you use your onboard oil change system. Warm the engines thoroughly, shut down, pump all the old oil out that will come out, wait 30 minutes, pour a quart of new oil in the engine and then pump out everything you can with the oil change pump, which pumps from the lowest spot on the engine system.

Frank,

I just want to make sure I follow your logic and sequence of events correctly. Why wait 30 min to put a quart of new oil and then pump. I thought that the proper order on getting all of the old oil out is:

1. Warm up the engines.
2. Wait 20-30 min for the oil to drain to the bottom of the pan.
3. Pump out old oil.
4. Add quart of new oil.
5. Wait another 20-30min for new oil to make it's way to the bottom of the oil pan.
6. Pump the remains out.

Am I missing something here?

 

[CV-23]

Ask him to do an oil analyses. I bet that the bright side of the story won't be so bright any longer.

I don't think he would care because the motor was running fine.....most people never see 200,000 on a vehicle. I know a guy that changed oil/filter every 2,000 miles in his 3 cylinder Chevy Geo and put 300,000 miles on her with zero issues and it's still running!

 

[Alex F]

I don't think he would care because the motor was running fine.....most people never see 200,000 on a vehicle. I know a guy that changed oil/filter every 2,000 miles in his 3 cylinder Chevy Geo and put 300,000 miles on her with zero issues and it's still running!

You'll be surprised how many vehicles are out there with 200K miles or more. I used to be in the business and had few cars, back in the day, that by far exceeded 200K. My personal approach was always change oil and filter of course every 3,000-4,000 miles range for non-synthetic oil. For synthetic my range is around 7,000 miles. I'm using this method on all my cars and having excellent results for the past 20+ years I'm not looking to change it.

 

[cod]

Warm the engines thoroughly, shut down, pump all the old oil out that will come out, wait 30 minutes, pour a quart of new oil in the engine and then pump out everything you can with the oil change pump, which pumps from the lowest spot on the engine system.

Frank, I have engine oil pan heaters. Any other reason to warm the engines. The oil is plenty warm to remove and I would rather not start them as the oil has drained nicely

 

[CV-23]

You'll be surprised how many vehicles are out there with 200K miles or more. I used to be in the business and had few cars, back in the day, that by far exceeded 200K. My personal approach was always change oil and filter of course every 3,000-4,000 miles range for non-synthetic oil. For synthetic my range is around 7,000 miles. I'm using this method on all my cars and having excellent results for the past 20+ years I'm not looking to change it.

I agree....More out there these day due to the economy. I have seen more head gasket failure over the years than oil related failures....whats up with that? My daurhters Inline 6 in her Jeep Cherokee has 235,000 and my sons 2003 V6 Mazda 6 has 120,000 and new head gaskets now.....loose head bolts?, Mike.

 

[fwebster]

Frank, I have engine oil pan heaters. Any other reason to warm the engines. The oil is plenty warm to remove and I would rather not start them as the oil has drained nicely

The rationale for the "XXX hours or annual" interval for the oil change is not because the oil is necessarily dirty, but to remove and moisture and moisture related contaminants in the engine. By thoroughly warming the engines....I take my boat out for a 30 minute run.......you circulate engine oil everywhere inside the block to be sure we capture any condensation that may be lurking in the nooks and crannies. One of the by products of condensed moisture and combustion waste is acid and you don't need acid in the engine all winter. Warming then letting the engine drain for 30 minutes or more gets more of the moisture out, so warming the engines is about more than just making cold oil easy to remove.

Granted it is a small issue, but it works for me.............

 

[Alex F]

The rationale for the "XXX hours or annual" interval for the oil change is not because the oil is necessarily dirty, but to remove and moisture and moisture related contaminants in the engine. By thoroughly warming the engines....I take my boat out for a 30 minute run.......you circulate engine oil everywhere inside the block to be sure we capture any condensation that may be lurking in the nooks and crannies. One of the by products of condensed moisture and combustion waste is acid and you don't need acid in the engine all winter. Warming then letting the engine drain for 30 minutes or more gets more of the moisture out, so warming the engines is about more than just making cold oil easy to remove.............

I guess we can also add a step here. Before proceeding to pump the old oil out this is the best time to take the oil samples for the lab.

 

[fwebster]

Frank,

I just want to make sure I follow your logic and sequence of events correctly. Why wait 30 min to put a quart of new oil and then pump. I thought that the proper order on getting all of the old oil out is:

1. Warm up the engines.
2. Wait 20-30 min for the oil to drain to the bottom of the pan.
3. Pump out old oil.
4. Add quart of new oil.
5. Wait another 20-30min for new oil to make it's way to the bottom of the oil pan.
6. Pump the remains out.

Am I missing something here?

Maybe, but there are lots of ways to skin a cat. Your way works, just takes longer. Take a look at where you pour oil into your engine and you will see that there is very little need to wait 30 minutes for the quart of fresh oil to drain into the pan.

 

[Lazy Daze]

Maybe, but there are lots of ways to skin a cat. Your way works, just takes longer. Take a look at where you pour oil into your engine and you will see that there is very little need to wait 30 minutes for the quart of fresh oil to drain into the pan.

Just to add something to this and to explain it in a another way...

I do the same thing, both in gas engines and my diesel (truck). But, specifically about a diesel - a diesel engine is a BIG hunk of iron. Meaning, it retains heat for a long time. As you pour in the ambient-temperature fresh oil, it is going to heat up awful quick because of the hot iron. Which, of course, means it will flow through faster.

When I add the extra quart of fresh oil into my truck engine, I see more oil (black) starting to come out the drain valve within about 20-30 seconds. Within about 3-5 minutes I'll start to see the fresh looking oil coming out the drain valve. It might even be, in your cases, that the fresh oil has an even more direct path to the pan than in my truck's engine - but you guys can better answer that than I can.

I know this isn't a perfect "apples to apples" comparison between an automotive engine and a marine engine, but it's probably at least a "Red Delicious" to "Mcintosh" comparison. Also, wanted to add this info because I can see the oil immediately as it exits the drain plug - which helps to further explain Frank's line of thinking. BUT, like Frank mentioned, you certainly aren't doing any harm by waiting longer.

As far as oil analysis goes, if possible, try to get a sample from about the middle of the drainage. Most importantly, you don't want the oil that first comes out. It won't be an accurate representation of the whole.

 

[fwebster]

Dennis,

Marinized diesels can usually be rigged with the oil fills on the inboard side. To make that flexibility, there is usually a block off plate on the skirt of the block or a blank flat plate on the back of the timing cover. In either case, it isn't the heat that allows you to drain the added oil more quickly but rather the fact that the oil is poured into the engine right at the pan level so it never runs down thru the engine. You add the extra quart to evacuate the old oil left in the oil change pump and plumbing (nearly a quart on my boat) so you can then use the pump to return fresh oil into the engine via reversing the pump.....hence the name REVERSO.

The only exception may be on certain engines where the oil fill is located in the valve cover.

 

[cod]

The rationale for the "XXX hours or annual" interval for the oil change is not because the oil is necessarily dirty, but to remove and moisture and moisture related contaminants in the engine. By thoroughly warming the engines....I take my boat out for a 30 minute run.......you circulate engine oil everywhere inside the block to be sure we capture any condensation that may be lurking in the nooks and crannies. One of the by products of condensed moisture and combustion waste is acid and you don't need acid in the engine all winter. Warming then letting the engine drain for 30 minutes or more gets more of the moisture out, so warming the engines is about more than just making cold oil easy to remove.

Granted it is a small issue, but it works for me.............

Very informative and makes a lot of sense...... Greatly appreciative

 

[alnav]

What is the best time in the sequence to change the filter?