Official Cummins 6cta 450C thread

I am leaning towards this as well. The alternator is not charging or batteries are toast and not excepting a charge.
I'll load test batteries this weekend and check output on alternator.

Thanks
 
Your loosing power at the fuel solenoid. The erratic voltage on the gauge sounds like a bad connection somewhere. Start troubleshooting at the batteries, check alternator output, wire connections etc.
Know that if this ever happens again that you are not stuck. If there is no power to the fuel solenoid, pull it open by hand and wire it up with mechanics wire. As long as you have enough battery to crank the engine, you’re running.
 
Thank you. Thats information that could save ya on the water. We were just about to enter a fast moving river when engine shut down if it didn't restart we would have been in trouble.
 
I am leaning towards this as well. The alternator is not charging or batteries are toast and not excepting a charge.
I'll load test batteries this weekend and check output on alternator.

Thanks
If you loose an alternator, all you have to do to keep going is run the generator while underway, it’ll keep your batteries charged. We did that for 5 days while cruising Lake Superior a couple of years ago until I could get one shipped to me.
 
I am leaning towards this as well. The alternator is not charging or batteries are toast and not excepting a charge.
I'll load test batteries this weekend and check output on alternator.

Thanks

The voltage on the 4-in-1 gauge shows the alternator output. If it's under 13v, your alternator is likely shut. But, I'd double check right at the alternator, just to be sure. So far, my gauge was always spot on.
 
Were you getting charge on the volt meter coming from the alternator? Where I'm going with this is, if your alternator stopped charging, you were loosing voltage to the point when the battery didn't have enough juice to have the engine running. As a result, it could have shut the fuel pump. This is with assumption that the genny was off and the battery had no means of getting recharged.

Agree, if the voltage gets to low the fuel shut-off solenoid on top of the fuel pump could have moved to the stop position.

Being that you had to use emergency start, it is a good bet your alternator wasn't charging the battery.-

Some other issues I have had are that the battery isolator should allow a single alternator to charge both batteries, but I have noticed that if your alternator is dying but still providing voltage, but not a lot of current (amps), the isolator won't let the other alternator charge the opposite battery. Also, if the generator is running and the battery charger is on, I have noticed the same issue with the battery charger recognizing the higher voltage coming from the alternator and also not charging the battery.

First, would check your alternator for loose or corroded connections based on the "jumpy" voltmeter.
 
It looks like one of the mounting bolts on my aftercooler. It may have come off without the paint coming off.
Someone may have forgotten to tighten it. They are murder to get to on my port motor.
This was it. Thanks!
 
Here is another one from the bilge. New this season I'm seeing this rust particle cast off in the bilge. Closest thing with rust is the turbo where it meets the exhaust elbow. Concerning as I didn't get similar amount if any in the past that caught my attention. Bolts holding the exhaust to the turbo are pretty rusted but i wouldn't touch the unless i had to remove it. they don't appear very service able. However I am concerned if one is about to let go. Anyone else experiencing this? Note seems to be the same cast off in areas on the other motor but no telling how long its been happening.

bilge.png
 
Here is another one from the bilge. New this season I'm seeing this rust particle cast off in the bilge. Closest thing with rust is the turbo where it meets the exhaust elbow. Concerning as I didn't get similar amount if any in the past that caught my attention. Bolts holding the exhaust to the turbo are pretty rusted but i wouldn't touch the unless i had to remove it. they don't appear very service able. However I am concerned if one is about to let go. Anyone else experiencing this? Note seems to be the same cast off in areas on the other motor but no telling how long its been happening.

View attachment 149531
I work on 4 different 2001/2002 400DBs with Cummins here in coastal SC that live in salt water 24/7. All but one have had the rusted turbo bolt and turbo exhaust flange symptom. In all cases it was due to the mixing elbow eating away to create pinholes on the inside that shoot salty water back into the turbo. When the mixing elbow was removed the turbo had significant rust growth narrowing the diameter of its exhaust port. The fix was two fold. Had turbos rebuilt and replaced old mixers with new from D’Angelo made from INCONEL. Only way to find out is to take the mixing elbow off. We had to cut the rusted bolt heads off for most of ours.
 
I work on 4 different 2001/2002 400DBs with Cummins here in coastal SC that live in salt water 24/7. All but one have had the rusted turbo bolt and turbo exhaust flange symptom. In all cases it was due to the mixing elbow eating away to create pinholes on the inside that shoot salty water back into the turbo. When the mixing elbow was removed the turbo had significant rust growth narrowing the diameter of its exhaust port. The fix was two fold. Had turbos rebuilt and replaced old mixers with new from D’Angelo made from INCONEL. Only way to find out is to take the mixing elbow off. We had to cut the rusted bolt heads off for most of ours.
Curious if its possible to scope the elbow to find out out. The elbows on the 42/44 DB is encased in a heat wrap.
 
Curious if its possible to scope the elbow to find out out. The elbows on the 42/44 DB is encased in a heat wrap.
Easy on a 400DB. Just remove the exhaust hose from the mixing elbow then you can scope all the way back to the turbo. I don’t know anything about the 42 exhaust setup so not sure what you have for a mixer.
 
Question for the group. 400 sedan bridge with 8.3L CTA

We were on a 5 hour run and in the 4th hour my Starboard engine shut off.
The only thing wierd was I noticed earlier on that my Volt meter for that side was jumping all around, its normally very stable.

I was able to start it and run another 30 mins and same thing happened. Last time starting I had to use the emergency start but it did start and ran long enough to get home.

While troubleshooting on the water I switched racor filters, but kept thinking it was a voltage issue.

Any thoughts appreciated

Jamie
The “ignition switch” you turn on on the bridge before you hit the starter provides the 12V for the fuel solenoid to provide the fuel to the engine and cuts off the engine when you turn the switch off. However, the 12V signal goes through some other circuits first, like the Halon system to cut off the engine in case of fire. I had my engine cut off one time during a run that turned out to be a defective diode that was located on a dummy plug as part of the engine harness.
It took me a while to find that one!.
Important is you need a stable 12V signal for that fuel solenoid!
 
I work on 4 different 2001/2002 400DBs with Cummins here in coastal SC that live in salt water 24/7. All but one have had the rusted turbo bolt and turbo exhaust flange symptom. In all cases it was due to the mixing elbow eating away to create pinholes on the inside that shoot salty water back into the turbo. When the mixing elbow was removed the turbo had significant rust growth narrowing the diameter of its exhaust port. The fix was two fold. Had turbos rebuilt and replaced old mixers with new from D’Angelo made from INCONEL. Only way to find out is to take the mixing elbow off. We had to cut the rusted bolt heads off for most of ours.
I had them build me two new mixer elbows from 316L SST. Those were around $1800 each and that was four years ago. There were pin holes developing on the old ones and were original from SR. At the time I think there was around 1800 hours on the engines and now 2600. One of the most important things is to ensure all of the exhaust metal components are tied to the boat's bonding system as pin holes are galvanic corrosion.
I'm curious what the Inconel builds cost..
 
I had them build me two new mixer elbows from 316L SST. Those were around $1800 each and that was four years ago. There were pin holes developing on the old ones and were original from SR. At the time I think there was around 1800 hours on the engines and now 2600. One of the most important things is to ensure all of the exhaust metal components are tied to the boat's bonding system as pin holes are galvanic corrosion.
I'm curious what the Inconel builds cost..
$1400 each purchased in Oct/2019. Somewhere closer to the beginning of this thread are pictures. I’m guessing your elbows are noticeably larger than the ones I had made.

Just took this picture. It’s been bolted on for four years now.
IMG_6469.jpeg
 
$1400 each purchased in Oct/2019. Somewhere closer to the beginning of this thread are pictures. I’m guessing your elbows are noticeably larger than the ones I had made.

Just took this picture. It’s been bolted on for four years now.
View attachment 149617
Quite a bit larger and has insulation on the hot section. I'd hate to purchase them today....
Exhmixer.JPG
 
The “ignition switch” you turn on on the bridge before you hit the starter provides the 12V for the fuel solenoid to provide the fuel to the engine and cuts off the engine when you turn the switch off. However, the 12V signal goes through some other circuits first, like the Halon system to cut off the engine in case of fire. I had my engine cut off one time during a run that turned out to be a defective diode that was located on a dummy plug as part of the engine harness.
It took me a while to find that one!.
Important is you need a stable 12V signal for that fuel solenoid!

That's a tricky one. I bet it took sometime to find that diode. Thanks for sharing.
 
The voltage on the 4-in-1 gauge shows the alternator output. If it's under 13v, your alternator is likely shut. But, I'd double check right at the alternator, just to be sure. So far, my gauge was always spot on.
Coming back from a trip yesterday and noticed that my voltage reading was way below 13v on one motor. Immediately thought of this post. Turned on the gen to get the volts up and when back at the dock I checked via my Victron shunt and confirmed that the alternator is not charging the battery when the motor is running. Alternator is only 2 seasons old. Thinking there is a loose connection somewhere. However if connection was loose and alternator was not delivering power to the battery is the alternator now shot? Heading back to the boat today to do further investigating as we got back late in the evening.
 
Coming back from a trip yesterday and noticed that my voltage reading was way below 13v on one motor. Immediately thought of this post. Turned on the gen to get the volts up and when back at the dock I checked via my Victron shunt and confirmed that the alternator is not charging the battery when the motor is running. Alternator is only 2 seasons old. Thinking there is a loose connection somewhere. However if connection was loose and alternator was not delivering power to the battery is the alternator now shot? Heading back to the boat today to do further investigating as we got back late in the evening.
Quite possible. If the alternator is driving current and it is disconnected (loose connection for example) it will take out the alternator's rectifiers. And quite possibly other electronics. A significant voltage spike occurs when the output current from the alternator is interrupted.
 
Quite possible. If the alternator is driving current and it is disconnected (loose connection for example) it will take out the alternator's rectifiers. And quite possibly other electronics. A significant voltage spike occurs when the output current from the alternator is interrupted.
Thanks for the reply @ttmott. So if alternator is shot no harm in reconnecting a loose wire (if that is the case) and just running the gen until end of season when I can address? No telling how long its been like this as we normally run with the gen on.
 
Thanks for the reply @ttmott. So if alternator is shot no harm in reconnecting a loose wire (if that is the case) and just running the gen until end of season when I can address? No telling how long its been like this as we normally run with the gen on.
The issue that can happen is if the diodes in the rectifier circuit allow current to flow in the wrong direction. Diodes are electrical "check valves" for lack of a better description, current can flow one direction but not the other. They can fail Open or Shorted. If they are shorted then current will flow from ground to the battery positive and will discharge the battery. You can usually tell as the back of the alternator gets hot to the touch when not running.
 

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