Official Caterpillar3116/3126 Thread

[SCFoster]

I’d do the same as on the hard for us - stick the hose in a big bucket of AF and run it for about 30 seconds. That’s assuming you’re able to start it?

The question was asked specifically because I can't start it. It's sitting on a pallet.

 

[Steve S]

But if there is antifreeze in the engine side and it hasn’t been run with no water in the raw water side, would you even need to do that?

 

[fwebster]

The question I would ask, or determine by looking in the recovery tank, is what coolant was in the engine when it was test fired by the rebuilder. The 3116 block is cooled by antifreeze, not water but the heat exchanger, the transmission oil cooler, the large lines connecting them, the seawater pump and the fuel cooler could have water in them if the rebuilder just used plain water rather then Cat ELT coolant for test firing.

I would have test fired the engine and brought it up to operating temperature on a test stand with Cat ELT in the cooling system so winterization would not be necessary. If it was test run on a test stand and brought up to temperature, then the thermostat could have opened and allowed coolant into the cooling system on the engine and that means youneed to be sure t he engine has antifreeze in it.

If this is a competent marine rebuilder he probably has a test stand with a radiator on it and you may only need to drain any water. remaining in the heat exchanger, transmission oil cooler fuel cooler and seawater pump.



Frank

 

[SCFoster]

The question I would ask, or determine by looking in the recovery tank, is what coolant was in the engine when it was test fired by the rebuilder. The 3116 block is cooled by antifreeze, not water but the heat exchanger, the transmission oil cooler, the large lines connecting them, the seawater pump and the fuel cooler could have water in them if the rebuilder just used plain water rather then Cat ELT coolant for test firing.

I would have test fired the engine and brought it up to operating temperature on a test stand with Cat ELT in the cooling system so winterization would not be necessary. If it was test run on a test stand and brought up to temperature, then the thermostat could have opened and allowed coolant into the cooling system on the engine and that means youneed to be sure t he engine has antifreeze in it.

If this is a competent marine rebuilder he probably has a test stand with a radiator on it and you may only need to drain any water. remaining in the heat exchanger, transmission oil cooler fuel cooler and seawater pump.



Frank

Frank, thanks for the quick response. There is CAT ELT coolant in the pressure tank and it was run on a test stand. I was referring to the raw water side and what is the best approach to drain any water (not ELT coolant) from the heat exchanger, transmission oil cooler, fuel cooler and raw water pump. Or is there a way to introduce pink antifreeze into those components without firing up the engine.

 

[ttmott]

Frank, thanks for the quick response. There is CAT ELT coolant in the pressure tank and it was run on a test stand. I was referring to the raw water side and what is the best approach to drain any water (not ELT coolant) from the heat exchanger, transmission oil cooler, fuel cooler and raw water pump. Or is there a way to introduce pink antifreeze into those components without firing up the engine.

As the aftercooler is cooled with engine coolant on the 3116 and the engine is filled with ELC, all I'd do is check to make sure it is good to -50 degrees. The raw water side should pretty much gravity drain. Probably remove the raw water pump cover, the hose from the gear cooler discharge, and the low point plug in the exhaust water jacket.

 

[SCFoster]

As the aftercooler is cooled with engine coolant on the 3116 and the engine is filled with ELC, all I'd do is check to make sure it is good to -50 degrees. The raw water side should pretty much gravity drain. Probably remove the raw water pump cover, the hose from the gear cooler discharge, and the low point plug in the exhaust water jacket.

Thanks.

Here is what T&S Marine sent me this morning:

The raw water circuit should have been mostly drained after the test run.
But to be safe, I would remove the zincs from the heat exchanger and the gear oil cooler
and remove the hose that leaves the raw water pump to HX ( just the pump end ). Also
I would remove the hose that goes to the exhaust riser from the gear oil cooler
( just the riser end of the hose ). I'm sure there will be some residual water that will come
out. The only other option would be to pump antifreeze through the circuit by removing
one of the hoses.

 

[Strecker25]

I’d think gravity would do the job as well but I’m so paranoid about this stuff, I might try and put some AF through it.

Looking at the cooling path for the 3116 I think you’d be safe to pump through using a submersible pump and not run the risk of getting AF anywhere you shouldn’t. It would be the same setup as the barnacle buster some folks have done - pump it in just past the impeller (or remove the impeller from the housing) and detach the hose that feeds the exhaust riser to catch it there.

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

I’d think gravity would do the job as well but I’m so paranoid about this stuff, I might try and put some AF through it.

Looking at the cooling path for the 3116 I think you’d be safe to pump through using a submersible pump and not run the risk of getting AF anywhere you shouldn’t. It would be the same setup as the barnacle buster some folks have done - pump it in just past the impeller (or remove the impeller from the housing) and detach the hose that feeds the exhaust riser to catch it there.

Mr. anal here, I second that motion.

Of course, it goes without saying - (but I'll say it anyway) drain AFTER running the AF through it

BEST !

RWS

 

[Ooli]

How many gallons of antifreeze are you guys running thru your raw water cooling side to winterize? I use 7 gal per engine. Also drain raw water out of trans cooler and vacuum out the strainer before adding the AF.

What kind of antifreeze is the collective using for the RAW water side. I use CAT ELC on the coolant side but am wondering what is the most cost effective solution for the RAW water side?

 

[douglee25]

This will work - https://www.westmarine.com/west-marine--50f-engine-water-system-antifreeze-gallon-499848.html

You can of course go up (or down depending on how you look at it) on the temperature threshold depending on your climate.

 

[Ooli]

This was my conclusion, after spending several days trying to muddle thru the various Cat publications I posted this on CSR in October, 2022:





I'm not offended and am not in a position to argue since this can of worms Caterpillar have given us can be confusing. I Just hope this doesn't add to the confusion:

First, I am not concerned with SAEO and that point isn't worth discussing because you cannot even buy it now. The parts guy I use at Thompson Cat in Nashville told me I asked for "unobtainium" when I asked if he had any SAEO in inventory. It no longer shows up on their "Available To Order" list.

API ratings are backwards compatble so Rotella-1 which is rated CF, CF-2. CF-2 is ok but CF-2 is for only for 2 stroke engines which means you shouldn't use it in 3116/3126 engines.


The safest approach is to follow table 1, page 6; and, table 4, page 10 on SEBU6250-31.

Cheat sheet: This came from a meeting I had with the Caterpillar SOS lab folks at Thompson Cat in Nashville: Caterpillar strongly recommends DEO-ULSD (preferred) or DEO rated CI-4 in 15W-40 since they are developed and optimized for use in Cat engines. Some retail oil distributors are now handling Cat oils.

As a second choice, commercial oils with API CK-4 rating or which meet Caterpillar requirements of ECF1, ECF-2 and or ECF-3 are acceptable.

and, as a third choice, API CJ-4, CI-4, CI4-plus, CH-4 but do not meet any Cat ECF specification.

Unfortunately, Shell's reformulation of Rotella-T-1, SAE-30 & SAE-40 don't meet any of the above specs for any Caterpillar engines not involved in the construction industy.

However, if for some reason, you are determined to not use Caterpillar products, Shell Rotella T-4 15w-40 meets Cat ECF-2, and ECF-3, and API CK-4, CJ-4 and Chevron Delo 600 ADF 15W-40 meets or exceeds Cat ECF-3 and API CJ-4, CK-4, so both are aceptable for the oil requirements Cat published in 2/2022 and are second only to DEO-ULS.

Is incredible how many forums have threads dedicated to the great oil debate.
Does Mister Webster or anyone else have insight on the Traveller SAE 30? This is the only 4 stroke 30 weight monograde oil available that I am aware of.

 

[douglee25]

See last line in what you quoted -

However, if for some reason, you are determined to not use Caterpillar products, Shell Rotella T-4 15w-40 meets Cat ECF-2, and ECF-3, and API CK-4, CJ-4 and Chevron Delo 600 ADF 15W-40 meets or exceeds Cat ECF-3 and API CJ-4, CK-4, so both are acceptable for the oil requirements Cat published in 2/2022 and are second only to DEO-ULS

 

[fwebster]

I posted this in 10/2022 after taking the time to go to Nashville and meet with their Fluids folks:

Official Caterpillar3116/3126 Thread

Was there any conclusion to the great oil debate from last fall? After reading 40 pages of this thread I still can't tell whether the Shell Rotella T4 15W-40 that I used last year is still OK. This was my conclusion, after spending several days trying to muddle thru the various Cat...

www.clubsearay.com

I learned that Cat no longer thinks that the additives used in most Multiviscosity oils will leave deposits in the aftercoolers and their new Fluids recommendation is to use Cat DEO 15w-40 in all engines. Read the section "Cheat Sheet" near the bottom of the post referenced above. Near the bottom there are 3 acceptable lube oils for all Cat applications.


Frank

 

[Strecker25]

I am the messenger, if you want to bash me, tell me I am wrong, have at it, I will not be responding. I learned something I thought was valuable and want to share.

A very reputable shop, may folks here use them, did some 1000 hour work and other things on my 3126s yesterday. The tech asked me if I am using Rotella. I said yes, based on feedback here. He said he "I knew it, get it out" adamantly. He said to only use Mobile, Chevron, Texaco, a few more, 30 W non-synthetic. I pinged a couple of buddies I met here, shared this, they said they were told the same by this shop and switched over.

Any reasoning? Bad oil test results? I can’t see the synthetic bit being the problem

 

[Sgrochow]

A very reputable shop, may folks here use them, did some 1000 hour work and other things on my 3126s yesterday. The tech asked me if I am using Rotella. I said yes, based on feedback here. He said "I knew it, get it out" adamantly. He said to only use Mobile, Chevron, Texaco, a few more, 30 W non-synthetic. I pinged a couple of buddies I met here, shared this, they said they were told the same by this shop and switched.

I don't know his reasoning, he was talking fast, at the end of the call, and his last comment was "get it out". Prior I said "How did you know" He replied "I just know, as soon as I pulled the covers off I knew", he was not being cocky or arrogant, his tone was a helpful one.

I also learned the coolant overflow plastic container should never have antifreeze in it. They are supposed to be mounted below the expansion tank. He thinks they are mounted where they are on my boat because it's a gas/diesel option boat, they are where a gas boat would have them.

What lead him to say "I knew it, get it out"? Can you please call him back and get specific information about what he saw in the covers and post?

 

[ttmott]

A very reputable shop, may folks here use them, did some 1000 hour work and other things on my 3126s yesterday. The tech asked me if I am using Rotella. I said yes, based on feedback here. He said "I knew it, get it out" adamantly. He said to only use Mobile, Chevron, Texaco, a few more, 30 W non-synthetic. I pinged a couple of buddies I met here, shared this, they said they were told the same by this shop and switched.

I don't know his reasoning, he was talking fast, at the end of the call, and his last comment was "get it out". Prior I said "How did you know" He replied "I just know, as soon as I pulled the covers off I knew", he was not being cocky or arrogant, his tone was a helpful one.

I also learned the coolant overflow plastic container should never have antifreeze in it. They are supposed to be mounted below the expansion tank. He thinks they are mounted where they are on my boat because it's a gas/diesel option boat, they are where a gas boat would have them.

The Rotella formulation is approved by Cat. What basis to not use it? I've used Rotella T3 and T4 in all my diesels - 20 plus years. I have oil analysis performed every oil change; no indications of the oil having issues. That is not to say there is anything wrong with Mobile Delvac or any other oil that meets the specifications. That guy is full of it.
To further support the line of BS - the coolant plastic bottle isn't an "overflow" device it is part of the coolant recovery system. As coolant in the engine gets hot and expands it has to bleed off somewhere. The pressure cap relieves and coolant flows to the bottle. When things cool down and pressure goes negative the pressure cap allows coolant to be suctioned from the bottle and returned to the system. That is why there is a "cold" and "hot" line on the bottle. All modern engines operate this way.

 

[ttmott]

My take away from what he told me about the plastic tank is it should be empty at some point, after the engine cools down enough. It fills up as overflow as the system gets hot, and all of the antifreeze should flow back into the system when it cools down. I've always kept mine at the cold line when the system's cold, he said that's not correct it should be empty.

Well again he isn't correct. There must be a "cold" fluid level. Otherwise the system will most likely pull in air as it cools. You want no air in the cooling system.
I'd like to know what the reasoning is?

 

[hughespat57]

+1 @ttmott
You always want a cold engine topped off and the tank at “cold” mark.

Then it expands when hot and draws back when cold to the low mark.

If the tank is “always” empty cold you have no indicator for low water in the engine after it cools.

Makes no sense never heard such a claim in 30 years turning wrenches on diesels.

 

[TheBobC]

I need to change the raw water pump in my 1999 400 DA with 3116s. Is anyone familiar with the JPR-S7632? I found that for less than $600, whereas the Sherwood P1710C was anywhere from $825 to $1,000. Just curious if the JPR is a quality product?

 

[dtfeld]

I need to change the raw water pump in my 1999 400 DA with 3116s. Is anyone familiar with the JPR-S7632? I found that for less than $600, whereas the Sherwood P1710C was anywhere from $825 to $1,000. Just curious if the JPR is a quality product?

Never used them, but looks identical. I think I found Sherwoods for about $600 a couple years ago, but had to search pretty far and wide.