Now Boat Buyer $Money$ Questions

[Negociant]

Living in Seattle, its practically a crime to not have a boat, and we are not ones for nonconformity so we are shopping. Actually its been in the works a couple of years and we are now getting closer to knowing what we want. We have narrowed the choices to a Rinker Fiesta Vee or a Sundancer 260 or 270. BUT here are a couple of questions for y'all:

1. For those of you who have boats, can you approximate how much you spend per year for care and feeding of your boat. I understand that boat ownership is expensive and there always are little things here and little things there that need fixing, maintaining, tweaking, etc., and maybe even a big punch in the gut (wallet) every once in a while, but I am curious to try to quantify how much that adds up to. $1000/year? $2000? More?

POSTSCRIPT: I should have mentioned that I am not looking for fuel, moorage costs (we would keep it in a slip in fresh water but run it through the locks to salt water at times), and cool must-have gadgets. I was wondering about maintenance, fixing the inevitable nits, etc.

2. What is the deal with pricing. I look at the NADA values and the list prices and they are polar opposites. Are the NADA values out to lunch or is it the other way around. Just as an example, NADA lists average retail for the 2004 DA260 as $35k but they are listed for over $60. Is it customary in the boat world to haggle that much or what? I don't want to go look at something and make an offer if it will be a waste of time.

Any comments much appreciated.

P.S. This is off the money topic but if anyone wants to compare the Sundancer and the Fiesta Vee, I am all ears. They look very similar.

 

[Ididntdoit]

You dont mention if you would wet slip or not but I spend around 20k to "feed" my 300DA each year - Im sure Todd will chime in as he has a 260DA and is in your area (I believe he trailers his) as for the Rinker - it may look like the sea ray now but wait a few years - they are junk and it will start to show

 

[Turtlesboat]

around here, we measure expenses in boat dollars. 1 boat dollar equals $1000 US dollars.

 

[gerryb]

As you will see, it adds up quickly. I do my own Engine maintenance and keep the boat in my yard off season. Also do my own zincs and outdrive antifoul each year. That saves me alot of money each year.

Even so, the expenses on my 280 are approximately as follows:

Outdrive maintenance: $1000/year (Dealer mostly)
Hauling/Bottom Cleaning: $250/year (Dealer)
Shrinkwrap: $350/year (3rd Party)
maintenance (oil/filters, etc): $250/year
boat accessories (other stuff for the boat): $500/year
insurance: $750/year
Gas: $1000/year
slip rental: $5000 year

That said, depreciation still 'costs' me about the same each year as all the items above combined.

 

[Sundancer]

You will also find that boats in the NW command a higher price as compared to boats in NADA. We have a shorter season so the sun doesn't have the opportunity to do as much damage up here. I've also heard that the colder seawater doesn't do as much damage (or it's related to time in the water?) as other parts of the country. I wouldn't put much into THAT one! It could just be the fact that we have the San Juans and everyone needs a boat to enjoy them? Beats me! So buy a GREAT boat at NADA prices somewhere else in the country, use it here and sell it for what you paid a few years later! :grin:

Don't forget that your costs will change if you plan to moore the boat as opposed to trailer it. I think it's a wash personally! If you have a trailerable boat, you need a trailer and a tow vehicle. If you moore it, you don't need those things, but the costs are chewed up in mooring and bottom maintenance. We trailer ours because we don't know if we're going to Priest Lake, Lake Pend Oreille, Flathead or the San Juans until we get a weather report at the first stop sign! I think you can justify either as you see fit. If you already have a tow vehicle, then that's one less item you have to purchase. A 260 will require a substantial 3/4 to tow it.

I'd lean toward the Sea Ray. Reputation and resale will make it easy to sell later on.

 

[Lazy Daze]

Engine maintenance is typically once a year. This would normally consist of changing engine oil, drive gear oil, fuel & oil filters. That costs about $80 for DIY.

You'll probably need to winterize your engine, head, tanks (fresh, holding, hot) - that's about $35 in biodegradeable anitfreeze and a couple bucks for some fogging fluid or 2-cycle oil.

The drive impeller doesn't need to be changed every year, but figure every two to three years on average - depending on usage. Some people feel better doing it every year - nothing wrong with that. Doing it on a regular basis means you only have to change the impeller, not the housing. I don't recall pricing for these, offhand.

NADA values all over the place right now. A real value for an '04 260DA (in my area, anyways) is mid to upper 30's. Anyone asking $60K is crazy.

 

[Negociant]

So buy a GREAT boat at NADA prices somewhere else in the country, use it here and sell it for what you paid a few years later! :grin:

The thought did occur to me, especially given that the economy has taken a much harder hit in the midwest and Florida than here. Is it practical to buy something in another part of the country and pay for the move? I suppose one can find someone remotely to do a survey, but a little more difficult to kick the tires and spot wear issues. And then I wonder how much it would cost to move, say, a DA260 from Florida or Wisconsin to Seattle. Have people used this approach?

 

[fc3]

Depends on the boat.

When I had a single sterndrive boat, maintenance was about $500 - 1,000 / yr for the sterndrive plus oil changes and spark plugs annually. Exhaust manifolds and elbows every 5-6 years. Misc belts and hoses as necessary.

Now that I have a twin engine V drive boat, maintenance is much less. Oil change every year, spark plugs every other year. Exhaust manifolds, risers and elbows every 5-6 years, but no drive maintenance. Additionally, I've lost no time on the water because of drive faults, which was not the case with the sterndrive boat.

Additional might be winterizing costs, etc, depending on your usage and location.

Truly, if you can afford a bigger boat, go with inboards. Much easier on your sanity in the long run.

Best regards,
Frank

 

[Turtlesboat]

The thought did occur to me, especially given that the economy has taken a much harder hit in the midwest and Florida than here. Is it practical to buy something in another part of the country and pay for the move? I suppose one can find someone remotely to do a survey, but a little more difficult to kick the tires and spot wear issues. And then I wonder how much it would cost to move, say, a DA260 from Florida or Wisconsin to Seattle. Have people used this approach?

Yes, people do it all the time.

 

[BiffStroganoffsky]

If you have it shipped in from another state, just remember to add the sales tax that licensing is going to assess you because...well, just because they can...to the cost of the purchase to get the final price.

 

[Negociant]

Thanks all. Great thoughts. I appreciate it. Great forum. Good tip on the tax. The deal here is that our state charges "use tax." It is our normal sales tax rate (9.5%) but a credit is applied for whatever sales tax is paid in the state of purchase, so it ends up being 9.5% no matter what (unless sales tax is higher in the state of purchase).

 

[Drifter]

Here in the middle of the country its a byers market over 30'. It took us 15 days to zero in on 2 boats that both guys were upside down in the mortgage and not using the boat. From there it was 50 days to delivery. Cost me $1200.00 bucks to have it moved 160 miles. Good luck.

 

[hmonarch]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but the topic of taxes on boats purchased in one state and licensed in another is of interest to me.

In Kentucky there is an exemption from the Use Tax. It is called an Occasional Sale. When a boat is purchased from an out of state seller, the use tax can be avoided if the seller is not in the usual business of buying and selling. When the boat is titled and licensed in Kentucky the buyer must request the exemption. Of course this means that a boat purchased from a dealer or marina would not qualify for the exemption.

Usually, an affadavit from the seller stating they are not in the business of buying and selling boats and stating they have bought or sold no more than two boats in previous year exempts the buyer from paying the tax.

But here is the kicker...the buyer must ask for the Occcasional Sale exemption. The clerks office is not required to disclose this.

It is my understanding that all but a few states have this kind of law in place.

 

[Chris R]

We faced the same "urge" when we moved here two years ago. I used the same phrase. (a crime to not have a boat here).

My first reaction to your question was new versus used. Of course with "new" you have the warranty issues covered, but regular maintenance on a new boat is mostly the same as a used. Being that we are in the Pacific NW, there is no need to winterize/shrink wrap your boat if it sits in the water. And hull cleaning is a once every few months thing (if you use your boat on a regular basis) versus twice a month in Florida. I just got a bill for bottom cleaning and replacing 3 zincs. Labor included it was $233.41. This happens about once every 6 months.

Other than that, oil changes, etc. are where your other maintenance cost come in. These costs will vary according to who does the work (obviously).

Todd will probably weigh in here at some point and give you some idea on upkeep for the 260.

 

[joe and ali]

The NADA gets alot of its info from sale price reported to states for tax .

 

[rmr911]

Welcome to the life. No place in the world better to be a boater than the PNW!

Re: NADA pricing, I sent this link in another post, but think it might be helpful to you - Used Sea Ray buyer's guide, published by Boat U.S. Provides hi-lo ranges on most every model. Hope it helps. (Click the second red box).

 

[BiffStroganoffsky]

The NADA gets alot of its info from sale price reported to states for tax .

The funny thing about that is, at least in WA, licensing has their own agenda...eh, algorithm... for determining the value of a vehicle/vessel when it comes to use tax (since it is based on the purchase price, I still consider sales tax) and licensing. If you actually buy a vehicle/vessel for less than what the system tells their agent it is worth (most of the time for used stuff) you will need to provide a signed form from the buyer stipulating the amount of the transaction. They will allow a small variance window from the system value without the form but that is a fairly minimal amount. So if you purchase a vehicle or vessel for anything other than MSRP, make sure you have a bill of sale with the transaction value and, for convenience, go ahead and have the seller fill out and/or sign the necessary form. I forget what form it is...have a copy around here somewhere :smt021 ...but you can just ask for one from a licensing agent.

 

[shore1]

i was told from a broker that there at least 25% that you can play with and i would think if you get someone who just wants out of boating there a little more play .
good luck