NMEA2000 and Smart-Craft

Discussion in 'Electrical Stuff' started by kkalsch, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. kkalsch

    kkalsch Member

    376
    Aug 3, 2010
    Pine Knoll Shores NC
    2016 Sea Hunt Gamefish 27
    Fuel Sipping Yamaha F150's 4 stroke
    I have 2003 280 with smart-craft but do not have the smart craft gauges -I have a Garmin 740s that can be connected to a NMEA 2000 network and it will show all the engine functions -do you think that 2003 smart-craft system is NMEA 2000 ? and if yes where do you make the connection (under the dash)? and where to find a wiring diagram

    Thank you
    Ken
     
  2. zeehond_nl

    zeehond_nl Member

    102
    Sep 22, 2010
    The Netherlands
    2004
    Mercruiser 5.0 MPI with Bravo III drive
    Maybe you can see with your serialnumber of the engine if it is smartcraft on mercruiser site?

    Do you have room in your dash for the 740?

    Please let us know how you are going the installing this in combination with smartcraft!
    This is one of the thing i also like, but first i need new dash material to reshuffle my gauges on my 240DA

    gr Marco
     
  3. bajturner

    bajturner Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    2017 Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40
    2019 Sea-Doo GTX
    2020 Sea-Doo RXT-X
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    My '04 has SmartCraft (SC) and I added a MercMonitor (MM) to bridge between SC and N2K. It displays SC data on my Garmin 720. It works very well. I especially like the MPG display on the 720, as well as the depth. There are some limitations because the MM must be configured to either the port or starboard engine. Some SC data comes off port (fuel gauge) and some comes off starboard (pitot speed, depth/temp transducer). I have configured as starboard since the Garmin will calculate remaining fuel from SC data. Interesting to compare with the gauge...they are very close. I haven't really used the Eco features of the MM, despite that is one of it's main purposes. The MPG display on the 720 is the key Eco data.

    I would guess if you don't have SC gauges then you don't have a SC harness running to the helm. In my case I simply replaced the SC speedo with the MM and connected the MM to the N2K bus. It was that easy. If you have the harness, it will be that easy for you as well, but you need the MM. If no harness, you may be in for a big job depending on which sensors are present and connected. I believe Henry Boyd did a full SC upgrade to his boat and would be the person to ask about that.

    It all works really well. I also have a Garmin VHF200 which also is N2K compatible. GPS data from the chartplotter is available to and displayed on the radio which can be used for DSC and emergency calls. Communication can also be initiated from the 720.

    The other things I installed are trim tab position sensors and a Garmin analog position to N2K bridge. This provides trim tab position graphically on the MM and the 720. After installing this I actually found out one tab was pushing back (debris in in the valve).
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2012
  4. bajturner

    bajturner Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    2017 Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40
    2019 Sea-Doo GTX
    2020 Sea-Doo RXT-X
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    I put the 720 (same as 740) on my 280 where the fuel gauge was, and moved the gauge to the right of the starboard multi-function. The location works well for me. I will take some pictures next time I am at the boat (which I wish was going to be this afternoon but likely won't be until next weekend).
     
  5. Gunn

    Gunn Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Potomac River - MD
    2003 280DA and 1995 Sea Ray 175
    Twin 4.3l and 3.0l, all w/ AlphaI GenII drives
    I'll be listening in on this one. And bajturner is right, Henry Boyd will be the one to chime in with all the good info.

    I also have a 2003 280DA and it is also SmartCraft capable, but does not have any gauges. I had a runaround with the Mercruiser tech support who started telling me my engine was not SmartCraft, until I showed her a picture of my flame arrestor cover with the SmartCraft logo right on it. Then she confirmed that my S/N's were Smartcraft capable after all. So look for that decal!

    And yes, he has room for a 740 (Ken indicates it's already installed). I have a Garmin 4208 installed last year and love it, so if you can get Smartcraft at the helm, I'd sure like to follow your steps (depending on $$$ that is).

    Tom
     
  6. bajturner

    bajturner Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    2017 Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40
    2019 Sea-Doo GTX
    2020 Sea-Doo RXT-X
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    You have to be careful...SmartCraft-capable and SmartCraft-equipped are two different things. Again, Henry will know more details, but in general there are 3 main parts: the electronics and sensors, the wiring harnesses, and the gauges.

    SmartCraft does not get you data onto a N2K network or to N2K displays. The two are completely different data busses and protocols. For that you need a bridge / translator. That is what the MercMonitor does.

    Henry for SmartCraft, but I can provide input on the N2K bus and MercMonitor if you have any questions as I did the installation myself.

    The MercMonitor will be ~$1200 to $1500, I think, depending on which one you need...the higher end of the scale for twin engines.
    A basic N2K network will be around $200 or less (or more if you go crazy with drops all over the place).
     
  7. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    Right on everything so far. Smart craft output from the engine can not be transmitted without the Merc Monitor. So at the top of the list that's the first part that's needed.

    SC capable is not SC equipped. To upgrade you need to run the wiring and install the gauges. Send me a pm with an email and I'll send you the SC product manual that explains all of the parts and wiring protocols.

    Henry


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  8. Gunn

    Gunn Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Potomac River - MD
    2003 280DA and 1995 Sea Ray 175
    Twin 4.3l and 3.0l, all w/ AlphaI GenII drives
    Do you require the Merc Monitor, or can that speedo multi-gauge they offer perform the same job?
     
  9. kkalsch

    kkalsch Member

    376
    Aug 3, 2010
    Pine Knoll Shores NC
    2016 Sea Hunt Gamefish 27
    Fuel Sipping Yamaha F150's 4 stroke
    Thanks Henry.....guesstimate on how much all that would cost ? Ya know... I knew that it wasn't going to be easy as plugin play
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2012
  10. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    Let take a look at it over weekend. I can't give you a price, but I can generate an inventory.

    Henry




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  11. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    Native SC can only receive NMEA0183. The MM allows NMEA2000 output from SC.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  12. saopm

    saopm Active Member

    814
    Oct 6, 2010
    North Fork - Long Island, NY
    2005 420 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins 450
    Can I have my Garmin send data to SC without a MM? Seems like a simple connection of two wires.
     
  13. bajturner

    bajturner Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    2017 Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40
    2019 Sea-Doo GTX
    2020 Sea-Doo RXT-X
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    No, you can't unfortunately. I'm not sure of your background, and I am not an expert, but there are a couple of differences, one which requires a translator or bridge. Consider four aspects, or layers, of the communication. Layer 0 is the physical interface...the type of wire and connectors, etc. Layer 1 is the electrical interface...the voltages, timing, etc. that exist on the wire. Layer 2 is the framing...basically how you package the data for transport (the tractor trailer, boxcar, or sea container sizes and boundaries). Layer layer 3 is the data structure...what information is retrieved and labelled as data to be transferred, what the label is, and how it is formatted (the boxes in the containers). This is a simplification of a protocol model, but gives the general idea.

    Both SC and N2K are CAN bus-based, however they are not the same for each layer. At the core, I believe both are in fact twisted pair wire, but the connectors and cable are different. This could be overcome with some simple adapters as long as the termination were correct, so it seems layer 0 could be easily adapted as you suggest. Layers 1 and 2 are the same, I think...so again an easy connection would be feasible. Layer 3 is what requires the bridge. Some of the data items are the same for both N2K and SC, but some do not map. SC is a closed, proprietary system, whereas N2K is open. The MercMonitor takes proprietary data from the SC bus and maps them to standard N2K data slots (or messages) called PGNs so that N2K-standard devices can access them.

    Not sure if this is all 100% technically spot-on, but it hopefully gives you some more detail and insight.
     
  14. bajturner

    bajturner Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    2017 Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40
    2019 Sea-Doo GTX
    2020 Sea-Doo RXT-X
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    Here are some pics of the 720 and the MercMonitor on my 280DA:

    MercMonitor where speedometer was, GPSMAP 720, VHF200, fuel gauge relocated to right side.
    IMG_5272.jpg


    View looking forward...all gauges visible.
    IMG_5273.jpg


    Close-up showing GPS data on VHF. SC data also appears on right banner on 720 screen when engines / gauges powered. This is customizable and there are other screeens for SC data.
    IMG_5274.jpg
     
  15. ZZ13

    ZZ13 Well-Known Member

    Nov 25, 2009
    Lady's Island, SC
    2001 400 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins 450 Diamond
    Well I just did this with NMEA 0183 on my 2004 300DA. There are two NMEA 0183 in wires hanging off the speedometer. My SL70CRC sends NMEA0183 out two wires. I just connected the two together and now the Smartcraft speedometer displays speed in GPS, tracks distance and fuel to a waypoint, etc. This was all NMEA 0183 protocol, not NMEA 2000.
     
  16. saopm

    saopm Active Member

    814
    Oct 6, 2010
    North Fork - Long Island, NY
    2005 420 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins 450
    Maybe I can just plug the wires together after all.

    The Garman manual says, "NMEA In/NMEA Out - Supports the input/output of standard NMEA 0183 data, and sonar NMEA input support for the DPT, MTW, and VHW sentences."

    I was going to try this last year but the wires looked out of reach. Maybe it will help to pull the gauge cluster out.
     
  17. ZZ13

    ZZ13 Well-Known Member

    Nov 25, 2009
    Lady's Island, SC
    2001 400 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins 450 Diamond
    That's what I did. I pulled off the panel with all the gauges and the two speedo NMEA wires were right there. The white wire is the data carrying wire (+) and the blue wire would be connected the the source's NMEA ground wire. I used bullet connectors to tie everything together. The only NMEA 0183 signatures that Smartcraft needs to get the data it uses are RMB and RMC. Mercruiser told me to specifically turn off GSV and VTG, but I just turned off everything but RMB and RMC. I also turned on GLL for the VHF radio to get lat/long for distress calls, as I connected its NMEA 0183 up as well.
     
  18. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    We have two discussions going on here. The original question by Ken was; "How do I get engine data on my Garmin even if my boat does not have SC gauges?" The answer to that question results in one hardware implementation. The second question by Tim was; "Can my Garmin send data to SC?" This answer results in a second and different hardware implementation. NMEA0183 devices communicate in a kind of clumsy fashion. The data flow is one way, one circuit for talking, another circuit for listening.

    Until the Merc Monitor was developed, Smartcraft was a NMEA0183 listener only. This would be how Tim could connect his Garmin to SC and send navigational data to it. However, he will not see any engine data.

    If Ken adds a Merc Monitor to his boat (with all of the other attendant wiring and guages) he will then have engine data on his Garmin. I don't know enough about the MM to say whether it is a two way device that will allow navigational data to be sent to SC from the GPS.

    Henry
     
  19. kkalsch

    kkalsch Member

    376
    Aug 3, 2010
    Pine Knoll Shores NC
    2016 Sea Hunt Gamefish 27
    Fuel Sipping Yamaha F150's 4 stroke
    Henry -before you did your upgrade -did you have the white and blue wire next to the speedo? The reason I ask... even if I can hook up somethings at no additional cost would be a plus! The full upgrade with all the gauges sounds like it could be costly -(save my money for gas) I have learned a lot from this thread -thank you!
    Ken
     
  20. bajturner

    bajturner Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    2017 Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40
    2019 Sea-Doo GTX
    2020 Sea-Doo RXT-X
    Twin QSC-500 HO

    Henry, I was just writing a response to this effect when I saw your response pop-up in my e-mail!

    The NMEA-0183 connection is certainly a simple (and inexpensive) way to go for GPS to SC.

    My apologies Tim...I didn't answer the actual question you were asking and would have potentially led you astray. The value of multiple sources of input!

    Displaying SmartCraft data on the 720 was more interesting to me, what the original question was about, and the focus of my response. I didn't really like toggling through all the screens on the little LCD, the 720 supported all the other data parameters, and it would also do some fuel economy calculations.

    Now, although Henry anwered this in his response, I already typed it so I will add my 2 cents. :smt001 Regarding the original question about connecting a 740 to your SmartCraft bus to display your engine data, I believe the answer is still no. Although both N2K and SmartCraft are electrically compatible (both CAN Bus based), everything I have read suggests the data is not formatted in a compatible way, even if you made an adapter cable.

    Also, so far as I know, none of the proprietary Mercury engine data can be broadcast over a standard NMEA-0183 bus since there are no sentences defined for them. All you can do is send navigational data. So you could connect your 740 to Smartcraft gauges if you had them and send simple nav data, but again, not get that information on your 740. Also, as Henry points out, SC is 0183 listener-only.

    As for the MercMonitor, it is a 2-way device, but if you replace the speedometer, you don't have an LCD readout to display the nav data...it is not accessible from the tach LCDs (at least I haven't figured out how to). If you leave your speedo, it should be there just like with the 0183 connection.
     

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