Newsweek article: "Captain Repo"

[Chris R]

I've been doing a bunch of traveling over the last few weeks. While on a Chicago to Seattle flight last night I was catching up on my backlog of Newsweek magazines. In the 2/23 issue I came across the following article:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/184752

Notice the backrgound image on the e-article? In the paper copy there was a number of small thumbnails, many of which were Sea Rays.

Interesting times we are living in......

 

[chuck1]

Interesting article. I'm kind of surprised how easy it would be to steal a boat. Jump the fence/gate then show the dock master some papers and go about your business.

 

[Converse48]

Interesting article. I'm kind of surprised how easy it would be to steal a boat. Jump the fence/gate then show the dock master some papers and go about your business.

Actually stealing a boat probably isn't all that hard. Disposing of a stolen boat and/or not getting caught are two other things altogether.

A lot of what these repo men are doing seems like breaking and entering to me. Plus, based on the nuance that "once the boat is underway they can legally take it," does that mean that they are breaking the law until the get the boat underway and then they are not breaking the law? Seems odd.

Sad business either way.

 

[StressAweigh]

I would think that since the bank is also part owner and the bank as given permission for the repo company to take it that is is not breaking the law may be a very grey area

 

[fwebster]

I worked for a bank repossessing cars/truck/boats during school. Taking pledged and forclosed property is not a crime. That hand full of papers is really a copy of a court ordered replevin warrant which, back then, was an automatic document the court clerk handled after the lender provided evidence of the lein.

We always wore coats and ties and went up and knocked on a door, then asked the debtor to bring his loan current or give us the keys to the car/truck. I never had a problem with this approach, and only once had to deal with a deadbeat who tried to hide his car (I did finally find it). The repo guys who jump fences, cut locks, and break into cars are probably on thin ice when it comes to the damage they do when they get a car........but, the truth of the matter is that if the debtor won't pay his car/boat loan, he is not likely to file charges or sue for the property damage done repossessing the asset he won't pay for.

 

[Converse48]

but, the truth of the matter is that if the debtor won't pay his car/boat loan, he is not likely to file charges or sue for the property damage done repossessing the asset he won't pay for.

I hear you Frank. And I think the bank certainly has a rightful claim to their collateral. It's just the language in the Newsweek article made it sound like the repo men were violating the law up to the point when the boat was floating free.

Specifically, I'm referring to this passage: "If the boat is away from the dock and moving, it's ours," says Larry Miller, 72, a veteran repo captain. But if the owner intercedes before the boat is underway, they have to leave it be. The best teams can get a boat powered up in 60 seconds.

Seems like if the owner intercedes, they should do just what you used to do Frank, i.e. ask them to pay up or turn over the keys. Funny business...

 

[chuck1]

That is what I was questioning also, the comment about showing some paper and the dock master does not even validate them???? Now if they had a court order and somebody from the sheriff/court was there it would be a different story? It sounds like breaking and entering to me (Cutting the ropes/jimmying the door/etc)

 

[Mr Salt]

I guess the question here is whose asset is it? The person who isn't making his/her payments or the bank that paid for it?. I would bet in most cases the lender has more "skin in the game" than the "titled owner". The bank will do what the "owner" was reluctent to do and that is sell the asset so they can get their cash back. Sound to me like many of you want to off your neighbors mortgage--why not pay his boat as well. I have no interest in either scenario.

Mr Salt
2001 5640 CMPY
Caterpillar C-12s
Cape May, NJ

 

[The Bill Collector]

This sounds no different then repo'n a vehicle.... If the owner is in the car/truck you cannot tow/drive it away.
"But if the owner intercedes before the boat is underway, they have to leave it be."

 

[Converse48]

What is the definition of "intercede" anyway? "Hey you bad repo man, get off my boat?" Does that qualify as interceding?

And for the record, I FULLY SUPPORT the bank's right to repossess the boat. I'm just trying to figure out what the rules are. I'm not sure why I care because when push comes to shove, I really don't give a crap.:smt021

 

[chuck1]

I guess the question here is whose asset is it? The person who isn't making his/her payments or the bank that paid for it?. I would bet in most cases the lender has more "skin in the game" than the "titled owner". The bank will do what the "owner" was reluctent to do and that is sell the asset so they can get their cash back. Sound to me like many of you want to off your neighbors mortgage--why not pay his boat as well. I have no interest in either scenario.

Not sure where you are coming from, but nobody said anything about paying for somebody else stuff. Simple question based on comments from the article. What do you main by more "skin in the game"?

 

[chuck1]

This sounds no different then repo'n a vehicle.... If the owner is in the car/truck you cannot tow/drive it away.
"But if the owner intercedes before the boat is underway, they have to leave it be."

If the car is parked in a garage is the repo man aloud to break into the garage?

 

[fwebster]

How much of whose skin is in the games does not matter at all since the loan document the borrower signed gives the lein holder the right to seize and sell the asset as well as recoup any costs associated with reclaiming the it.

I think those repo guys on the TV shows make recovering an asset for the lein holder look a lot more clandestine than it really is. Heck, those people know they haven't made the payments and they know the bank is coming for the car...they just don't know if it is this week or next. Breaking into a garage? I think that is breaking and entering and is illegal unless the asset they are reposessing is the only item in the locked space. The bank we worked for would not allow us to enter a closed space to get a car unless a sheriff's deputy was there to serve the replevin warrant.........but that was some 30+ years ago and who knows what has changed since then.

Besides, it doesn't matter at all to me; there is no question about it...... since I don't owe anybody for anything, the guy who tries to get my stuff is going to deal with the business end of a 12ga.

 

[JediJD]

I spent a little over three years as a full time judge, and might shed a little light. First, however, this isn't legal advice to anyone, just a general statement of general law...so don't rely on it and go do anything stupid!

The rule is generally that secured parties can repossess, without even a court order, as long as it is "peaceable". You cannot break into a locked garage...which wouldn't be peaceable. You can cut wires and jump start the boat...which is actually your collateral. If the debtor is obstinant, in some jurisdictions, you can get a court order where police will help the repo guys go into homes or businesses, but usually that's expensive and time consuming and not often used. There is no "three payments rule". You can theoretically be a day late and have something repo'd...however, most lenders are not in the buying and selling business...they just want the payments. Screaming after the boat is gone, doesn't count. Screaming at the dock shaking your fist at the boat doesn't count. Screaming before they get away from the dock usually counts. The fact is that most people who fall behind are incredibly embarrassed and non-confrontational.

As to the questions about "who owns" the boat...well, you own your boat SUBJECT to a lien. As long as the lien is being satisfied, you own it. The lienholder though has a first interest in the boat...ahead of you (that's why when it is sold, the lien has to be paid off before you get paid).

Being a secured party is a little tricky...you have to have properly filed a lien on the property to make your repossession valid. Occasionally that part gets messed up.

 

[fc3]

Hey guys! It's Newsweek. They play fast and lose with the truth to fit their agenda and to make a more interesting story so they can sell more rags. Umm. Magazines, I mean.

Best regards,
Frank

 

[Nehalennia]

If the car is parked in a garage is the repo man aloud to break into the garage?

No, you can't break and enter to repossess the property. I've done tons of repos and evictions. Both are not fun, sometimes even scary. I've only done one boat and that was at a marina(not private). I was with the agent from the bank and a hired captain. The captain checked the systems to make sure it was seaworthy. I picked the igition on and Vrooom. I got off the boat and the cruised away.

 

[Chris R]

Hey guys! It's Newsweek. They play fast and lose with the truth to fit their agenda and to make a more interesting story so they can sell more rags. Umm. Magazines, I mean.

Best regards,
Frank

And, I'm sure "Liquidators" helped with some of the spin, hoping to get some free advertising to help sell some boats. Hmmm, I wonder how much they are going to try to get for that 48. If it's sitting in the back of a "mansion", it can't be too nasty...

 

[chuck1]

....
As to the questions about "who owns" the boat...well, you own your boat SUBJECT to a lien. As long as the lien is being satisfied, you own it. The lienholder though has a first interest in the boat...ahead of you (that's why when it is sold, the lien has to be paid off before you get paid).

Being a secured party is a little tricky...you have to have properly filed a lien on the property to make your repossession valid. Occasionally that part gets messed up.

JediJD,

Thanks for the factual info. Question since you are in GA.
I thought they recorded a lien against it when you took a loan on a boat in GA since there is no title???

 

[fwebster]

Tennessee is a no title state and all it takes to file a lein is a 1/2 page UCC-1 form that lists the debt sspecifics + a trip to the court house and about $25.

 

[chuck1]

Thanks Frank, I have never understood why they don't title a boat in GA. I always thought somebody could just sell it with a bill of sale and be done with it. If there was no lein recorded what would stop them from doing it???