New US fire extinguisher regulations

A couple years back I replaced all of mine with Mariner 10 BC extinguishers from West Marine. They are $25 each plus an extra $13 for a stainless mounting strap. Three onboard, plus the fixed system, I believe I'm fully compliant with the new reg's and am hoping to be good for 10 more years :)
 
Interesting. Actually just had 5 extinguishers recertified on Monday for the shop and truck. One of the 5 lbs is for the boat. Never thought to check if it was CG approved.
It amazes me how many fellow boaters see mine on the boat and comment "that's a good idea".
 
Creekwood said:
I saw this thread on THT and thought it was good so passing it on.
https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/1205555-fire-extinguisher-regulations-changing.html
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Various threads have been going around on the "changes" to the USCG rules for fire extinguishers.
In fact there are very little changes, the main change was to disconnect the USCG requirements from NFPA requirements.

The reason being over the years NFPA has gotten tighter on inspecting and record keeping, NFPA is designed for residential and commercial buildings, not marine. NFPA added a monthly inspection and record keeping requirement of all those building inspections.

The USCG rules change specifically moves the recreational boating extinguisher requirement into the boating safety section of the CFR from the general marine safety section which has always been focused on the overall (i.e. commercial vessels). And by moving and disconnecting from NFPA does not require a recreational boater to inspect and record the monthly check.

The 12 year life of a portable extinguisher has been in place for over a decade and still applies that is actually part of DOT rules for pressurized cylinders. DOT and NFPA added the 12 year limit due to the fact that hydro-static testing a small portable every ten years has become more expense then just replacement. You have to empty it, visually inspect inside and out, then hydro test and finally refill. It's cheaper in most cases just to replace with new.

There is no change to the carriage requirements. There is also no change to fixed systems, this is only portables.
 
The engine room bottles that discharge when there is a fire will be expensive to certify on an annual basis. I believe they are supposed to be weighed which means disconnecting them and then re-installing them. At marina rates that will be pricey.
 
Just recertified my engine room bottle he hit me with an additional $450 to “requalify” due to the age I asked him what he does to “requalify” it he said he inspects it so I asked him aren’t you here to inspect it anyway? he also stated it should be annual so $500 to inspect and $450 to “requalify” this is why no one’s bottles are up to date. I was scammed cause he knows he has you.
 
Havana Shamrock said:
Just recertified my engine room bottle he hit me with an additional $450 to “requalify” due to the age I asked him what he does to “requalify” it he said he inspects it so I asked him aren’t you here to inspect it anyway? he also stated it should be annual so $500 to inspect and $450 to “requalify” this is why no one’s bottles are up to date. I was scammed cause he knows he has you.
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I was charged $250 to recertify my engine room bottle last year, they came to the marina.
Told it is cheaper if you disconnect the bottle and bring it to them.
 
So here a question with a lead up. I have a halon in the engine compartment shows green. No idea when last ‘certified’.
Are we ‘required’ to have an engine compartment extinguisher? Cause on my boat build sheet it’s listed as an option.
If it’s not required then screw it.
 
Pirate Lady said:
So here a question with a lead up. I have a halon in the engine compartment shows green. No idea when last ‘certified’.
Are we ‘required’ to have an engine compartment extinguisher? Cause on my boat build sheet it’s listed as an option.
If it’s not required then screw it.
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It was an option on my boat also. Both my gauge and indicator light show green, so I'm not inclined to have it certified. Plus I carry 3 extinguishers at all times. I have the same thought on fire extinguishers as I do on concealed carry: Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
 
All, I just read over the new USCG rule for fire extinguishers that states;

"new federal regulation for fire extinguishers on motorized recreational boats taking effect on April 20, 2022.
The big change is that fire extinguishers older than 12 years from the manufacture date are no longer considered good and serviceable and should be replaced with a newer fire extinguisher.
This includes both disposable (non-rechargeable) and rechargeable fire extinguishers. And while you are checking your fire extinguishers, make sure they are properly pressurized, labeled for Marine use “Marine Type U.S.C.G.” and are of the specific type required for your vessel length."

Now I'm assuming the fixed bottles in the engine compartment (330DA) would be considered rechargeable. Couple questions: 1) who would check these bottles for the 12 yr date? 2) How much do these bottle cost to replace so I can get 12 yrs of no-worry?
 
my understanding is this does not include rechargeable extinguishers.

I just scheduled an inspection of my system. Using DuckDuckGo.com I entered “fire extinguisher service” and started looking at the local business websites until I found one that said marine inspections. I also ordered two replacement disposable extinguishers.
 
With the fixed suppression systems in the engine rooms, do insurance companies offer discounts?
They used to for mobile equipment up here if annually inspected but believe that changed now and the companies don't discount anymore.
 
I am wondering if the coasties will be checking the ER fire bottles for the DOT inspection or manufacture dates when they do their routine boardings. I know they want to see that we have the required number of extinguishers on board and that they are accessible, but will they be writing us up if we have an out-of-date automatic halon bottle installed in the ER. The reason for the life limit, I assume is explosion risk due to internal corrosion. How big of an issue is this, In my 30 plus years of working in aviation and boating, I do not recall hearing one story of a fire bottle rupturing. I think this is another one of those examples of an industry building in obsolescence for profit. The 12 year life limit has been around for pressure vessels for years and I guess in makes sense for high pressure bottles that get transported regularly and subject to damage which could lead to a violent rupture but secured fire bottles it seems would be a very low risk.
Carpe Diem
 
Thornton69 said:
With the fixed suppression systems in the engine rooms, do insurance companies offer discounts?
They used to for mobile equipment up here if annually inspected but believe that changed now and the companies don't discount anymore.
Click to expand...
Chubb asks if there is an on board automatic fire suppression system in the engine compartment. I'm not sure if they would insure if not or if it's to determine the premium.
 
My boat is stored on the hard and shrink warped but I'm heading out there today to assess this fire bottle issue cuz its driving me bat shit crazy. This issue was not even on the radar. I believe to bottle on my 330DA is a self-contained version which has the nozzle mounted to the bottle, so it might not be as expensive or as much of a PIA to replace. With a 26 yr old boat I guess it makes sense to replace the bottle.
 
Carpediem44DB said:
I am wondering if the coasties will be checking the ER fire bottles for the DOT inspection or manufacture dates when they do their routine boardings. I know they want to see that we have the required number of extinguishers on board and that they are accessible, but will they be writing us up if we have an out-of-date automatic halon bottle installed in the ER. The reason for the life limit, I assume is explosion risk due to internal corrosion. How big of an issue is this, In my 30 plus years of working in aviation and boating, I do not recall hearing one story of a fire bottle rupturing. I think this is another one of those examples of an industry building in obsolescence for profit. The 12 year life limit has been around for pressure vessels for years and I guess in makes sense for high pressure bottles that get transported regularly and subject to damage which could lead to a violent rupture but secured fire bottles it seems would be a very low risk.
Carpe Diem
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There was always a requirement to have the fixed-mounted systems checked and tagged on a periodic basis (was it annually or semi-annually??). If whoever was checking and tagging that (the professional service) saw that the bottle was over the 12 year life they would not recertify it unless you also had them recertify the tank. So, the CG guys would just have to look for that annual tag that verified it was full. This only matters if you are relying on that fixed system to meet your USCG requirements for fire-extinguishers.

On my boat I had a fixed system, but I would periodically weigh it myself. I had plenty of portable units to meet my requirements, so there was no issue on needing the USCG to check the fixed system. To me, (and to them) that system was just an additional benefit that might pay off if there was any issue in the engine room.

The one issue I have with the new regs is that now there is a distinction between the portable disposable and the portable rechargeable units. If you upgrade to a nicer rechargeable unit you now take on the responsibility to have it periodically checked and tagged in order for it to count towards your requirement, just like the fixed systems. The disposable units just need to be not expired, in good shape and show a full charge on the gauge.
 
I think you are over think this. This has to to with portable fire extinguishers only. Either rechargable or disposable but nothing about the built in system. On a 40ft boat 3 are required if no halon system or 2 if halon equipped. The expiration date is the only change as I read it.
 
Well, I checked my engine compartment extinguisher which is a Sea-Fire Halon G-250 and a manufacture date of Oct 1995 (little peel away labels) and the gauge reads right in the middle of the Green. Its only 27 years old!!!
 
@Carpediem44DB @Burg guy @km1125 @MoonRiver @Havana Shamrock @Blueone

You all touched on portions of the "Fixed" system requirements.

And as has been stated the "new changes" only effect PORTABLES (either disposable or refillable).
To finish off the portables first, most of ours are technically refillable; only a few of the really cheap push-button types are not and they just would not be worth the cost to refill even a 10BC is only $20. A good sized 20BC with a nice hose & nozzle are almost certainly refillable. Yes the cylinder may still expire in 12 years but if you used it at year 5 it might be worth refilling new is like $70 so it depends on labor costs. But I imagine most shop rates are going to be $75 an hour and up for carry in.

Now FIXED systems particularly our old Halon 1301, (I have two mounted)
They are "legal", there is no USCG or EPA legal requirement to upgrade them.
There is NO 12 year limit on the fixed systems cylinders.
There is NO hydro-static test requirement unless you want to refill one that has discharged.
IF inspected and tagged they can offset one 10BC portable for legal carriage requirements.
They are easy to un-mount (put quick connectors on the switch) and weigh and visually inspect.
If you want a professional inspection, carry it in, the inspection will be less then the road call.

This guidance was issued by the USCG in 1995 when Halon was "banned" it still applies. It clearly explains why hydro and internal inspections of Halon are of no value as the contents are completely non-corrosive.

USCG Guidance for "Alternate Inspection" of Halon 1301 systems.
https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/DCO Documents/5p/5ps/NVIC/1995/n3-95.pdf

I don't know of any recreational Halon system that has fixed piping and flex hoses most have a direct attached head. So those references for testing are not applicable to recreational.

I am in the camp of:
I have two in opposite corners of the ER, I believe in them.
But I can weigh them and inspect each spring, tag them and log that.
I have way more than the minimum in portables to meet the carriage requirements.
 
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