New powerboater with an old 240 saying hello

alan-bc said:
It's about 75 nautical miles. About 5 miles will be at low speed in the various harbours so (hopefully) very low consumption. So 70 miles @14 knots .. about half throttle .. 5 hours. 260 liter tank .. I simply cannot imagine burning 50 liters per hour at half throttle.

But I guess I'll find out.
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You better check your numbers. There is no Sundancer ever made that will stay on plane at 14 knots.
You can’t imagine burning 13gph? Better start to imagine.
Thats on a flat day, empty boat, only you aboard.
Your avg DA is made to run about 3000 to 3200 minimum on plane which is 22-24mph. A planing hull is either doing about 8mph tops at hull speed, or it wants to get up, which will put you at bout 20mph minimum. With perfect conditions, 2 aboard, judicious trim of tabs and drive it will run 2800, that is table top calm flat.
 
Timeflys said:
So…when was the last time the tanks was cleaned out, fuel filters etc. and how old is the gas in the tank? I think I would be doing a local cruise for a hour or so to find out if there are any surprises before I buy…and if the dealer is one you trust, will he come and tow you back, just in case?
And from the dealers pov…..here’s a guy willing to buy a 40 yr old boat, sight unseen from pictures…..they’re thinking ..we can’t let this one get away…imo.
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I surely understand what you're suggesting, and your reasoning, and under other circumstances, that's exactly what I'd do.

My decision tree for this circumstance was a bit different than my usual cautious approach to buying something.

The boat is pretty much exactly what I want in terms of size, features, style and so forth; a long day/occasional overnight replacement for my old 15' Boston Whaler.

There's nothing even close to what I want within six or eight hours of travel. The closest was five hours away, not really what I wanted, and $25,000.

This boat was $10,000, and $400 away, one direction.

If I decided to trial it and reject the trial, the net cost was $1,200; travel costs there and back, plus overnight charges during tourist season.

So financially, I'm looking at risking $10,000, and the insurance on that risk is $1,200 .. odds of 1 in 8. Do I think there's more than a 1 on 8 chance this is a bad idea? No.

Do I think there's ANY chance? Oh goodness yes. But more than a 1 in 8 risk? Nope, not even close.

The recent survey confirms the opinion of the broker. And the broker is attached to a top flight marina, one that I moored at for 10 years; I know this organization. They don't sell just any boat, they only sell nice, well maintained boats.

Indeed, this boat was initially listed for $25,000 and the consensus was that it was a bargain at $25,000. But everyone wants bigger boats and no one wants an old boat and so the price kept falling.

As to the specific sales person, they were the commodore of a pretty prestigious yacht club and well known in the boating community .. not about to put their reputation on the line for a few bucks commission.

So, a 2021 survey that described the boat as "exceptionally well maintained", reliable company, believeable sales person, 1 in 8 odds, the boat I want for really very little money .. what the heck.

Having said all this, I AM going to hedge my bets a bit. I have route planned that will take me past a major center (gas, parts, moorage) every hour or so, for the first three hours and a half hours.

I'll stop for fuel at that point, and so have a good idea of actual fuel consumption. I'll also evaluate my own condition; it will by that point have been a long day. Overnighting at a dock is certainly a possibility.

I'm also going to sign up with C-Tow; $175 for a tow home from darn near anywhere seems like cheap insurance.

All life is a gamble, boating even more so, nothing is guaranteed. But I'm happy with the odds on this particular bet.
 
alan-bc said:
All life is a gamble, boating even more so, nothing is guaranteed. But I'm happy with the odds on this particular bet.
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sounds like you’ve done due diligence and the circumstances of the broker brings you to a point you are comfortable with..and you have a back up plan along your route..so enjoy the boat..I’m on my 3rd searay and haven’t been disappointed.
 
Pirate Lady said:
Nothing wrong with that boat or your plans. I think your fuel numbers are way off.
Why? Because of owning 6 sundancers 250 - 270 over 40 years. But what do I know.
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Hey, I'm an optimist!

And I freely admit I know nothing about powerboats. In researching this, I realized with a start that I'll spend more on one fill up of this boat than I have in the last 20 years fueling my sailboat.

You'll note I've hedged my bet and will be pulling in for fuel at the three hour mark.

But I'll also say that I bought this boat as a learning experience, to dip my toe into the waters of powerboat ownership. It's a real boat and will be a real test, and one that's cheap enough that I can simply walk away from it. So if I learn that the boat can't go 75 miles on a tank of fuel, it's useless to me and gets donated to charity the minute I get home.
 
It looks like the Strait of Georgia is only 20 miles +/- wide at the widest? That doesn't seem so terribly bad. I was picturing something far more vast when I read your original post.

My two cents - definitely get that Tow Boat US or Sea Tow membership before you head out. And definitely plan for that stop in the middle. Being on-plane for six hours is a long time, especially if you don't have autopilot.

Do you think you'll generally have good cell coverage throughout your trip? Does the boat have functioning VHF? If not, perhaps consider buying a handheld to bring along. Or an EPIRB...
 
Stee6043 said:
It looks like the Strait of Georgia is only 20 miles +/- wide at the widest? That doesn't seem so terribly bad. I was picturing something far more vast when I read your original post.

My two cents - definitely get that Tow Boat US or Sea Tow membership before you head out. And definitely plan for that stop in the middle. Being on-plane for six hours is a long time, especially if you don't have autopilot.

Do you think you'll generally have good cell coverage throughout your trip? Does the boat have functioning VHF? If not, perhaps consider buying a handheld to bring along. Or an EPIRB...
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If memory serves, I think you have to have your SeaTow or BoatUS coverage in place for a minimum amount of time before coverage kicks in. At least 24hrs I think.
You may want to make sure.
 
Shaps said:
If memory serves, I think you have to have your SeaTow or BoatUS coverage in place for a minimum amount of time before coverage kicks in. At least 24hrs I think.
You may want to make sure.
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I actually updated mine out on the water on the one time my boat broke down, but I’ve been a member for decades so maybe that made a difference.
 
Sea Tow:
"Your membership is active 24-hours after the time your payment is processed. If your membership is active, covered services will be provided even if you don't have a physical card in hand."
 
Stee6043 said:
It looks like the Strait of Georgia is only 20 miles +/- wide at the widest? That doesn't seem so terribly bad. I was picturing something far more vast when I read your original post.

My two cents - definitely get that Tow Boat US or Sea Tow membership before you head out. And definitely plan for that stop in the middle. Being on-plane for six hours is a long time, especially if you don't have autopilot.

Do you think you'll generally have good cell coverage throughout your trip? Does the boat have functioning VHF? If not, perhaps consider buying a handheld to bring along. Or an EPIRB...
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Yeah, it's about 25 miles of open water where I need to cross before reaching somewhat more sheltered water; not too bad. Now, it IS capable of some AMAZINGLY bad storms that blow .. unannounced and unforecast .. to near unpassable conditions within 30 to 45 minutes; it's an amazing body of water. But having a boat with speed is comforting.

I left once in the sailboat with forecast winds of 5 to 15 out of the northwest; near perfect broad reach conditions. I checked the forecast one last time before venturing out, as I always do. And that's what I got, 10 -12 knots or so of wind; it was great, zooming along at 6 knots or so.

Two hours in, middle of the Strait, it started to BLOW, and in very short order, I had 30 to 35 knot winds; unpleasant, to say the least. Worse, I had waves from the south, carried by the wind, and reflected waves off the islands to the north, resulting in very confused seas.

The VHF advised that "small craft are urged to remain in harbour".

"You couldn't have told me that a couple of hours ago ?!?"​

The one possible fly in the ointment is that the best route takes me right through a military firing range that's "active", as in "Stay Out", about half the time. Skirting this range darn near doubles the distance.

But I've signed up for C-Tow, and even had a chat with the local Captain. Turns out his wife and my wife worked together!

I agree, five or six hours on plane seems like a very long time (no autopilot .. yet ..). And that will happen at the end of a long day, after an early out of bed, two decently long car rides and two separate float plane rides. So the first three hours of the trip will be close to shore with many marinas, moorages and anchoring locations very close by.

That will put me into Nanaimo, where I plan to spend the night.

In Nanaimo, fuel, food, and perhaps the best chandler in all of B.C. are within walking distance.

There's a working VHF on board, plus I'll be bringing my own portable VHF. Cell coverage should be good for the first half of the trip, although it gets sketchy for a couple of hours in the middle.

I think I've covered all my bases, although I can't quite decide whether to be excited or nervous ...
 
On plane for six hours straight. Hope impellers are new
 
The add said the boat was located in North Saanich. Did they run it to the mainland?
Maybe the bugs are already out!
 
I don't want to be a killjoy. And I love an adventure. But I don't think I would do this. I know way too much about old boats and old engines/outdrives to jump into this. I would certainly do this trip on an old boat and old engine, but I would become very familiar with it first.

And Pirate is correct. Managing fuel in a small planing hull takes some experience. Generally, the most efficient speeds are dead idle (but you must reduce the V-bottom wander), and up cleanly on plane with no trim tabs and trimmed out a bit. Speeds between the two can produce gawd-awful fuel efficiency numbers. While 75 miles should be very doable with your set up, I'd be willing to bet that between about 1200 rpm and 3000 rpm (maybe as much as 3500), you could not come close to a 75 mile range in that set up.

Edit: re-read your post and a couple things jumped out at me.

First, a survey that only found 3 deficiencies in a 40 year old Sea Ray could not possibly have been remotely thorough. I have owned and fully restored several 80's Sea Rays. I know them well. There is a ton of important stuff that easily gets missed (or simply can't be reasonably examined).

Also, just caught that you are pushing this with a VP 4.3. That combination is very light in horsepower for this application. It will need to run very near wide open throttle to maintain a clean plane. That is assuming the motor runs perfectly, it is propped correctly, and the bottom is clean. Running for hours on end near wide open throttle on a boat you are not familiar with is very risky. And like I said before, if you are not cleanly on plane, range will be a big problem.

I hear you are willing to take a risk here, but I'm not convinced you understand the extent of the risk you are taking.
 
Nater Potater said:
If that's the same boat, then good on you! I wish my ten year newer boat would have looked that good.
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Yup, that's the boat. I'll see it in person for the first time on Thursday, but I'm assured it looks as good as the pictures.

The comment that stood out from the survey was "exceptionally well maintained", a comment seconded by the broker.
 
keokie said:
I don't want to be a killjoy. And I love an adventure.

--- cut ---

I hear you are willing to take a risk here, but I'm not convinced you understand the extent of the risk you are taking.
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Thanks for the long and detailed reply, and I mean that, thank you. In response ...

You speak of risk, and I'm not quite sure what the risk is.

"Risk" to me is an adventure that might kill me or cripple me. I see small chance of either.

Yes, such physical consequences are possible, but they're possible with any boat at any time on any crossing, and I don't see it any more likely with this boat than another. I'm decently experienced with this body of water, the weather around here and boats in general. If the weather looks bad, I'm simply not going; I'll sit at a dock or at anchor until it's safe enough that even a fraidy-cat will go.

Is there a risk of mechanical failure that costs me a bunch of money? Yup, absolutely. But I've factored that into the purchase price. Frankly, I can afford to simply walk away from this boat .. scuttle her mid channel if need be .. and only lose a couple of night's sleep over the financial cost, and no more than a couple of nights. I'll cry hard those two nights, but will chalk it up to experience and remind myself that some lessons are more expensive than others.


As to the cruise itself, it's about six hours total. I think that about 4 hours of that will be spent at speed, on plane. The rest will be at low speed in crowded areas or harbours with speed limits.

And that planing time will be cut into two sections. I plan to stop about mid ways and overnight at a dock, one with chandler and mechanic close by. And fuel up, which will give me a pretty good idea just what sort of fuel consumption I'm getting.


I understand your concerns about the survey and once home, once I have a chance to dig into it, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find things that need attention. This would not actually be a negative for me!

A famous naval architect was once said "if life should so conspire that I could do only one thing, work on a boat or sail that boat, I think I should choose to work."

That surely applies to me; a boat is just a partly painted canvas to me, and the older, the better. (I don't mind drilling a new hole in an old boat. Drilling holes in a brand new boat ...)
​
But the boat floats and steers, and the engine runs and tests good (compression within 10% on all cylinders). That's enough for me to attempt this.

In summary, I'm pretty confident this boat will be tied up at my house soon enough, and I'll then know whether this was a genuine bargain, a fair price for an old boat or just a stupid waste of cash.
 
Well, back home, safe and sound. Uneventful, in fact!

Did learn some things though.

Fuel economy was not (quite) as bad as had been suggested, but nowhere near as good as I was hoping for. (My first fill cost me more than I'd spent in 15 years of sailing, total.)

Related to that, I need to know a whole lot more about about trim. Initially, I was using the trim tabs, but decided to play with leg trim as well. Lifted the "Bennett" tabs, tweaked the leg, got more speed. Hmmm ...

So, among the zillion things I need to do/want to do, adding trim indicators as well as a fuel flow gauge is on the list. With the price of fuel these days, all this instrumentation might soon pay for itself.

I also need to find a way to quiet things down. Even with some fancy rubber carpet down, this is still a very noisy device. Thank goodness I had some foam earplugs with me!

If anyone has any sound deadening suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
 
Really glad for you.
People always under estimate fuel consumption. Think that 5.7 is loud, get a 7.4. Wife and i use hand signals when running.
There is sound deadening Amazon that can be glued to top of engine hatches but probably a waste of time. Talk when you reach destination.
We dont talk when boogeying. I am concentrating on rpm, trim and direction. Wife is watching other gauges for something going wrong, and pointing to other boats that are crossing, overtaking, etc. plus we have a bazillion crab pots that are specifically placed to ruin your day.
Traveling on plane is not relaxing, its an exercise in accident avoidance.
 
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