Need Replacement Trojan Batteries

[Lord Farringdon]

Went to plug in shore power after my recent cruise and noticed the batteries were hot. Not hot as in "they are in the engine room, so what do expect?", but hot as in "this is not good". The charger circuit breakers had popped and the Victron Centaur charger was dead. I flick the circuit breakers back on and the Centaur ammeter flew up and off scale. Shortly later the circuit breakers popped again.

I turnned off all shore power and all DC and left the boat. When I get back to the boat I will do a few tests as instructed by my electrical guy but at the moment it looks like a bad battery in the bank. (could also be a rotten charger or faulty alternator) I have four 6v Trojan 105's connected in series/parallel for house batteries and 1 x 650 CCA Endurant start battery. The endurant is less than 6 months old. The Trojans I assume are at least three years old, possibly four. My question is how can I tell the age on these batteries? Is there a code somewhere?

If it is a dead cell on one of the batteries then I will have to replace all four..ouch! That aint going to be cheap. I kind of knew this was going to happen though. The batteries are continually charged by the Centaur through a voltage sensitve relay. This keeps them in tip top shape and I usually check the electrolyes every month. On my last check, they were all well below the plates. I topped them up but had an uncomfortable felling knowing that when exactly the same thing happened to the start battery I had to replace it shortly afterwards.

I suspect these Trojan house batteries are getting aged, just as the original start battery was.


Terry

 

[melida]

Terry,

The first thing came to mind is water/electrolyte level of your batteries.

If they are dried then they'd boiled by the engine charging and then caused to fail boat's battery charger.

I have two 105amp car size and one big truck size 200amp 12volt batteries, 3,5 and 2,5 years old.

At the end of summer voltmeter showed 11,5-12 volt when I turned the starter key instead of showing 14, meanwhile boat is attached to shore power and battery charger ampmeter was at 0 and light was green. So batteries were full. Engine started in the first cranck, voltmeter again at 12volt and no electrical problem or alarming while cruising. After anchoring at a cove used inverter and consumed high ampers but then engine started again first turn.

When I returned to marina attached to shore power and battery charger's ampmeter flew to 35 amps. Then I checked the water levels of the batteries that all of them were dry. Bought a 5 liter distilled water and topped them off. Charging finished quicker and engine voltmeter showed 13-14 volt before starting and after starting stayed at 14volt.

I guess and hope so this summer will be the last season with my batteries, then for next season I have to buy new.

Have a try by topping the water of batteries which will be the inexpensive fix.

Hope this helps and solves.
Take care.

PS: Also be sure that your alternator is dry and sea water pump and/or filter and hoses are not dripping water into it. This can damage the diods and other components which causes charging inability and killing the baterries.

 

[annie]

Hi Terry,

There is usually a code or number engraved in the top, most battery suppliers will be able to decode this for you. I'd get them load tested first and maybe a hydrometer test to check acidity. At least then you'll know if they are sick.
I just changed 4x house batteries, changed from what you have to Century R220's @ $208.00 +gst. Not much change out of a grand but 440 amp/hours is quite a bit of capacity.

 

[Lord Farringdon]

Terry,

PS: Also be sure that your alternator is dry and sea water pump and/or filter and hoses are not dripping water into it. This can damage the diods and other components which causes charging inability and killing the baterries.

Hi Terry,

There is usually a code or number engraved in the top, most battery suppliers will be able to decode this for you. I'd get them load tested first and maybe a hydrometer test to check acidity. At least then you'll know if they are sick.
I just changed 4x house batteries, changed from what you have to Century R220's @ $208.00 +gst. Not much change out of a grand but 440 amp/hours is quite a bit of capacity.

Thanks Guys,

Sayat, that's a good point about the sea water filter. I know there are no leaks in the hoses or fittings in this area ( I'd be horrified if there was), but I have spilt some sea water down there when checking the filter. I'm kind of hoping nothing has dripped on the alternator but your post has reminded me to take a close look at this.


Mike, damned expensive aren't they? I was actually wondering whether I needed all that capacity. I keep the fridge off when on the hook unless I'm running the engine and it's not as though I use much more than the lights, anchor light, radio and sometimes TV for a few hours at night. Unlike Sayat who uses an invertor, runs a 52 inch TV, microwave, ice maker 1000W RMS audio system with pumping sub woofers complete with disco lighting system!:smt043

Maybe two house batteries would be fine? Then again, I like having the extra capacity...just in case. I will do the tests my electrician is asking for and he can decode any markings on the batteries. Then I'll probably pull the batteries and have them checked and subsequently thrown away probably. Why did you go to the Century R220's which I presume are deep cycle batteries? Cost obviously, but was there any other operational reason, especially since you had Trojans before?

Terry,

Have a try by topping the water of batteries which will be the inexpensive fix.

Sayat, the battery levels were fine at the time the batteries were hot, however, that's ony because I had previously found them to be very low and topped them up on my routine maintenance of the batteries just prior to this cruise.



Terry

 

[annie]

I replaced the batteries because the broker told me it was the reason the Lectra/san wasn't working......wrong! But they were still sick.

I have a mate that did that price on century's, he said they performed very much the same as Trojans but they are slightly lighter. Probably won't last as long?

I removed the Lectra/san and now all that runs off the house batteries are stereo and lights. I do want an inverter further down the track so don't regret the capacity.
230 amp/hours would be heaps to run what you say?

The 6volt Trojans are golf cart batteries so don't get stung by a marine electrician.

After doing some research into batteries after this electrolysis event I learnt that when a battery is gassing or bubbling it is basically wearing itself out. Same as a battery will only handle so many cycles. I don't leave my charger on when I leave it in the marina. When I get to the boat it goes on to balance the draw and top them off before we head out.
3 or 4 years isn't very long for such a heavily built battery. Mine were 5 years old and the previous owner always left them on charge? This is only my opinion and not to be taken as rule but it makes you think? I had a 14 year old Toyota Landcruiser and it still had it's original battery! It'll be interesting to see how long this set lasts.

I'm off to Seahorse tomorrow for a haul out and see what damage has been done, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for now.

Cheers Mike

 

[melida]

Thanks Guys,

Sayat, that's a good point about the sea water filter. I know there are no leaks in the hoses or fittings in this area ( I'd be horrified if there was), but I have spilt some sea water down there when checking the filter. I'm kind of hoping nothing has dripped on the alternator but your post has reminded me to take a close look at this.


Mike, damned expensive aren't they? I was actually wondering whether I needed all that capacity. I keep the fridge off when on the hook unless I'm running the engine and it's not as though I use much more than the lights, anchor light, radio and sometimes TV for a few hours at night. Unlike Sayat who uses an invertor, runs a 52 inch TV, microwave, ice maker 1000W RMS audio system with pumping sub woofers complete with disco lighting system!:smt043

Maybe two house batteries would be fine? Then again, I like having the extra capacity...just in case. I will do the tests my electrician is asking for and he can decode any markings on the batteries. Then I'll probably pull the batteries and have them checked and subsequently thrown away probably. Why did you go to the Century R220's which I presume are deep cycle batteries? Cost obviously, but was there any other operational reason, especially since you had Trojans before?



Sayat, the battery levels were fine at the time the batteries were hot, however, that's ony because I had previously found them to be very low and topped them up on my routine maintenance of the batteries just prior to this cruise.



Terry

Terry,

Assuming your raw water system components are not dripping water over alternator and there is not any rust/stain seen inside the alternator, also as you said water levels of batteries topped so there last one thing is your batteries are dead.
Would your engine start at first try?
How many volts shown on the voltmeter while the engine is running and before starting?
Have you load tested them?
At this moment it seems you’re gone buy new battery(s).

I have 2x105A reserving for engine start and 1x200A for domestic use. I have 1500Watt sine wave inverter and can run off it microwave oven, electric oven, 700w toaster, 1000w kettle, 500w hair dryer and lots of cell phone, laptop iPod chargers, hot water heater is not hooked to the inverter wiring.

Have a 19” LCD, it’s initially 220volt but had 12volt output. Cut the transformator and hooked it to the boat’s 12v system and powered by the “stereo” button in the 12v DC panel.
Have 2x A12 oceanled amphibians and they even don’t consume any Amps, lighting on and off won’t move the voltmeter lower.

Test your batteries and decide the amperage for your intended use of the boat, maybe going with 12v instead of 6v should give a better result.

 

[Lord Farringdon]

Wnt to the boat this weekend. Two of the batteries in the bank with unbalanced in voltages at 4.5 and 7.5 volts implying that bank was faulty in some way. In addition the water had boiled out of them again. So, I've pulled the batteries and I am taking them to my electrician tomorrow. I'm almost sure they'll be consigned to Davey Jones locker but I now need to make sure the problem is with the batteries and not the charger or alternator over charging otherwise I'll cook the new batteries. I'll let you now how I get on.


Terry

 

[melida]

Wnt to the boat this weekend. Two of the batteries in the bank with unbalanced in voltages at 4.5 and 7.5 volts implying that bank was faulty in some way. In addition the water had boiled out of them again. So, I've pulled the batteries and I am taking them to my electrician tomorrow. I'm almost sure they'll be consigned to Davey Jones locker but I now need to make sure the problem is with the batteries and not the charger or alternator over charging otherwise I'll cook the new batteries. I'll let you now how I get on.


Terry

Terry,
I hope the problem is the battery(s).
Check the charging regulator and the battery sensor of alternator. It won't indicate on EDC so you have to control the cables behind the alternator and fuses in the black box over the engine.

 

[Lord Farringdon]

Hi Sayat, you probably saw my reposnse to Annies thread. I left some pics of the new batteries over there. Everything seems to be charging nornmally but of course I had to leave the boat before they were fully charged. Nevertheless, I think they will be fine and hopefully having replaced the start and now all the house batteries I won't have any further problems here for a while.


This summer has been lousy and apart from a few weekends ago the weather has just not cooperated. Even this coming weekend is forecast with 25 kt wnds gusting 35 kts ! Grrrr!:smt021

PS. I took a good look around the Alternator as you suggest but didn't see anything that looked like any seawater had got into it. In addition, The battery monitor shows 40 + amps when the alternator is running. According to my electrician that's working as it should be. I'm happy about that!

Terry

 

[melida]

Hi Sayat, you probably saw my reposnse to Annies thread. I left some pics of the new batteries over there. Everything seems to be charging nornmally but of course I had to leave the boat before they were fully charged. Nevertheless, I think they will be fine and hopefully having replaced the start and now all the house batteries I won't have any further problems here for a while.


This summer has been lousy and apart from a few weekends ago the weather has just not cooperated. Even this coming weekend is forecast with 25 kt wnds gusting 35 kts ! Grrrr!:smt021

PS. I took a good look around the Alternator as you suggest but didn't see anything that looked like any seawater had got into it. In addition, The battery monitor shows 40 + amps when the alternator is running. According to my electrician that's working as it should be. I'm happy about that!

Terry

Terry,
Yes I saw them and glad you solved that problem.
Now go for boating as a happy boater.

Not familier with your country's seasons and climate, I guess when here is snowing you're swimming there like day and night difference, but poor to you for short summer season. Here mid april I can swim and dive without wet suits at 20C water temp thru mid october. So our "wet" baoting season is longer than summer.:grin:
Nowadays we have cold and snowy weather but who cares KADzilla does not effected from weather:smt043

PS: It's good to know alternator and components are fine BUT you should see 65AMPs instead of 40 which is always same regardless of idling or running at wot.