Need advice: 2004 Open Array vs. new 24" HD dome

[HomePort]

I have been planning on replacing my 2004 Raymarine 48" open array with a new 24" HD dome.

However, one of the members here pointed out that, even though I might be increasing my processing speed and get the benefit of 256 colors, since I'll be going from 48" to 24", I'll loose significant target separation.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I've purchased the dome but not yet installed it.

Oh, also important to note that I'm upgrading my chartplotter, going from the e120 to the e125, which means I won't be able to run the current 48" open array into the e125. I'd have to keep it connected to the old RLC70 and wouldn't get the benefit of chart overlay, which I haven't had in the past but am looking forward to in the future.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

- Port

 

[Gofirstclass]

I would submit that if you go to a HD system you will GAIN target separation. That is the biggest advantage of HD radar.

 

[HomePort]

I would submit that if you go to a HD system you will GAIN target separation. That is the biggest advantage of HD radar.

Hi Gofirstclass,

That's what I was hoping - that even though the beam is shorter, the HD will increase target separation. I think the jury is still out, though.

- Port

 

[trit21]

ok, here is a link that explains target separation. Beam isn't shorter, its the width that matters here, not even power. I know it is Garmin but go to about 4:20 in the video and it explains beam width and target separation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDVq6XGNmgk&feature=player_embedded

 

[Alex F]

ok, here is a link that explains target separation. Beam isn't shorter, its the width that matters here, not even power. I know it is Garmin but go to about 4:20 in the video and it explains beam width and target separation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDVq6XGNmgk&feature=player_embedded

Tom,

What an excellent video. Simple and detailed enough to understand all basic needs. Thanks for posting. I'm sure anyone who's getting to know how radar operates will appreciate this video. IMO, it's a good idea to post this in the other thread "getting most out of your radar".

I have been planning on replacing my 2004 Raymarine 48" open array with a new 24" HD dome.

However, one of the members here pointed out that, even though I might be increasing my processing speed and get the benefit of 256 colors, since I'll be going from 48" to 24", I'll loose significant target separation.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I've purchased the dome but not yet installed it.

Oh, also important to note that I'm upgrading my chartplotter, going from the e120 to the e125, which means I won't be able to run the current 48" open array into the e125. I'd have to keep it connected to the old RLC70 and wouldn't get the benefit of chart overlay, which I haven't had in the past but am looking forward to in the future.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

- Port

Micheal,

I'm sure you have your reasons for the upgrade, I just want to tell you that I'm very much satisfied with my RM open array radar, which is hooked up to a C120. If your biggest concern radar performance I can tell you that a LOT depends how well you know operation of the unit. Upgrading to a latest and greatest technology is always a good thing, but let's be realistic. If you're planning to keep it always on the AUTO mode, chances are you'll be disappointed having high expectations. You mentioned that you have E120, I think that 4kw open array and E120 is very good combination. Unfortunately, unlike with GARMIN products, RM forces you to upgrade the whole package since older MFDs are not compatible with newer HD radars. For this reason I'm keeping my E120 package and will replace my C120 with another E120, so I can take advantage of HS network and share all the data, including radar, between two units. Also don't forget about the appearance, I'm not sure how the boat will look with smaller dome, open array looks very cool. It might drive some people away during resale. Why not go to open array HD, if you're spending that kind of money. As you may know the performance is much better on the 4' open array (4kw or 6kw or even 12kw) unit.

 

[HomePort]

Tom,

What an excellent video. Simple and detailed enough to understand all basic needs. Thanks for posting. I'm sure anyone who's getting to know how radar operates will appreciate this video. IMO, it's a good idea to post this in the other thread "getting most out of your radar".



Micheal,

I'm sure you have your reasons for the upgrade, I just want to tell you that I'm very much satisfied with my RM open array radar, which is hooked up to a C120. If your biggest concern radar performance I can tell you that a LOT depends how well you know operation of the unit. Upgrading to a latest and greatest technology is always a good thing, but let's be realistic. If you're planning to keep it always on the AUTO mode, chances are you'll be disappointed having high expectations. You mentioned that you have E120, I think that 4kw open array and E120 is very good combination. Unfortunately, unlike with GARMIN products, RM forces you to upgrade the whole package since older MFDs are not compatible with newer HD radars. For this reason I'm keeping my E120 package and will replace my C120 with another E120, so I can take advantage of HS network and share all the data, including radar, between two units. Also don't forget about the appearance, I'm not sure how the boat will look with smaller dome, open array looks very cool. It might drive some people away during resale. Why not go to open array HD, if you're spending that kind of money. As you may know the performance is much better on the 4' open array (4kw or 6kw or even 12kw) unit.

Hi Alex,

Always great to hear from you.

I think I'm going to go with the 48" HD Open Array. It's only $1000 more than the 24" HD dome and I know I'll kick myself in a few months for not going with the better until. I keep trying to be conservative in my upgrades but it hasn't happened yet...

Thanks for all your input guys.

- Port

 

[vance@BOE]

Hi Alex,

Always great to hear from you.

I think I'm going to go with the 48" HD Open Array. It's only $1000 more than the 24" HD dome and I know I'll kick myself in a few months for not going with the better until. I keep trying to be conservative in my upgrades but it hasn't happened yet...

Thanks for all your input guys.

- Port

Let us know if we can help. I just saw you were just across the Chester from us.

http://www.boemarine.com/marine-nav...ra1048hd-4kw-48-hd-digital-open-array-mapped/

 

[mantmc]

Alex,
Your reference to the C120 caught my eye. I'm new to boating - just closed on a 29' Sea Ray a week ago. The boat has a C120 w/ GPS and a fish finder, but no radar. I would like to add it, but not sure what to do. My usage is "fair weather" cruising on Lake Superior, but the weather can turn quickly and I need to be prepared. Would you:
1.) Upgrade my C120?
2.) If I keep using the C120, what type of antenna would you recommend?
Thanks

 

[autovette]

You will need a spread sheet

 

[HomePort]

Shucks.

Vance@BOE, I just saw this. I did a major upgrade to radar and chart plotter but I'll keep you in mind for the next one project...

Thanks,

Port

 

[Creekwood]

Alex,
Your reference to the C120 caught my eye. I'm new to boating - just closed on a 29' Sea Ray a week ago. The boat has a C120 w/ GPS and a fish finder, but no radar. I would like to add it, but not sure what to do. My usage is "fair weather" cruising on Lake Superior, but the weather can turn quickly and I need to be prepared. Would you:
1.) Upgrade my C120?
2.) If I keep using the C120, what type of antenna would you recommend?
Thanks

2) I don't think the C120 can use the HD radar (check your manual or the Raymarine web site), so that leaves you with less choice if you want to keep the C120. I have a C80 and went with the 18" radome because my use of radar is emergency only. It works well for my purposes. With a C120 and RD418 radome you won't get chart radar overlay unless you have a heading sensor on your boat (or unless you have not upgraded the software on the C120).

 

[mantmc]

2.) I have that same concern based on what I've read elsewhere on this site. I posed that question to Raymarine yesterday on their site. Like you, I'm looking for something to help in an emergency. Maybe I'd upgrade down the road as I become more familiar with it.

Thanks for the feedback

 

[Creekwood]

2.) I have that same concern based on what I've read elsewhere on this site. I posed that question to Raymarine yesterday on their site. Like you, I'm looking for something to help in an emergency. Maybe I'd upgrade down the road as I become more familiar with it.

Thanks for the feedback

I do have radar overlay on my c80, but that is because I did not upgrade the software when I heard that he new version killed the overlay without a heading sensor. The overlay on mine only works when moving so the C80 can get heading from gps, but then it works fine. I only need radar when moving so I have no idea why Raymarine killed it. Must be something to do with legal risk.

 

[Alex F]

Alex,
Your reference to the C120 caught my eye. I'm new to boating - just closed on a 29' Sea Ray a week ago. The boat has a C120 w/ GPS and a fish finder, but no radar. I would like to add it, but not sure what to do. My usage is "fair weather" cruising on Lake Superior, but the weather can turn quickly and I need to be prepared. Would you:
1.) Upgrade my C120?
2.) If I keep using the C120, what type of antenna would you recommend?
Thanks

I’ve been using C-Series MFDs since 2007 and been pretty much satisfied with their performance.

When looking for upgrades and/or add-ons the main thing is to consider the fact that currently installed equipment is setup with compatible components and whatever is to be added or changed needs to be compatible as well. So, this is not the case when you can buy latest and greatest HD Radar and things will just work, they will not.

Based on your brief description I assume that all you’re looking to do is add a reliable navigation aid without spending too much money. You ask what would I do in your situation? I would keep the C120 and install compatible 4KW closed dome radar. If you wish to save money get a good used one. Granted, that you have to set proper expectation. Considering that your C120 and a used radar won’t last forever, I don’t see why they wouldn’t give you at least another couple years of service. In case if your C120 goes bad in 2-3 years you’ll have an option of either replace it with another used C120 or go for E120 Classic, which is plug and play with everything you have now and it will work with the same radar.

Here’s what C-Series lists as compatible Radars:





To be on the safe side, before spending any money, I would contact RM and verify that the unit you're about to buy is compatible with C120.

You will need a spread sheet

Without a smiley face it sounds like a sarcasm…However, this is just another case where putting together a spreadsheet listing all the components and their compatibility would only help in making final decision whether it makes sense to save money and just add compatible radar or invest more and do a complete upgrade to get the latest equipment. When you’ll list a dollar amount to each component, the final conclusion will come very quickly.

 

[ImpulseIII]

Sarcasm from Autovette......come on now.

 

[mantmc]

Your response makes sense. I also received a response from RM. Among other things they stated they have discontinued the sale of analog radar units. They go on to list compatible model numbers based on the info I provided them about my C120 "Classic MFD" - very helpful. They also refer me to their FAQ section and tell me exactly what to type in for my research.
I think I have enough feedback to proceed - thank you.

 

[Alex F]

... Like you, I'm looking for something to help in an emergency. Maybe I'd upgrade down the road as I become more familiar with it.

I just want to mention that a radar is not something you would use in case of "emergency". As you may find in many threads where this topic was discussed there are number of reasons why the radar should be ON anytime you're underway. Few of the reasons are:

1. The best way to know how to use it and familiar with all necessary features is to operate the radar during the daylight with good visibility. This way you can relate what you see on the screen to what you actually see with your eyes.
2. Even though most radars do a decent job in the AUTO mode and will provide great help in case if you just turn it on when the visibility is lost, but it doesn't guaranty 100% safety that it'll pick up all the objects and takes time to get used to interpreting what you see on the screen. The more you learn how to tune basic features on a good day, the safer you'll be when you really need the radar.
3. It's a CG requirement to have the working radar turned on when underway as it's an additional aid to navigation that helps prevent accidents. If you have working radar off and an accident takes place you'll be held liable for not having it turned on.

I perfectly understand that your current use of boat is fair weather, but as you use your new boat more and more and will love being on water more often the chance of weather change without much warning will be increased as well. On the other hand you probably not doing night cruising, which is one of the beautiful things to enjoy. So, the bottom line is that with time you understand that radar is one of the most important and most helpful aid of nav a boat should have in order to open up your cruising abilities and not too worry if you get caught in a fog or a heavy rain.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[trit21]

3. It's a CG requirement to have the working radar turned on when underway as it's an additional aid to navigation that helps prevent accidents. If you have working radar off and an accident takes place you'll be held liable for not having it turned on.

Not sure if this has been discussed before or not but I want to try and clarify something about CG requirements and 'always' running radar. Rule 7 states, proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and operational. Proper use and was it appropriate to use the radar. Daytime, plenty of visibility does not require radar use, and if you have an accident radar would not have helped as you were probably not paying attention to what was in front of you or your surroundings. At night, low vis, etc, radar should be running and if you hit something at that time, then at least your radar was running and your attempt to navigate using all means was carried out. AT least that is how I was informed and even rule 7 states proper operation, proper operations to me does mean always on.

 

[mantmc]

Thanks again for everyone's input - I agree with all of it. I suspect I'll do a pretty major upgrade after my first year, but I'm reluctant to buy to the "best and the brightest" until I learn and experience more firsthand.