- Oct 3, 2006
- 4,404
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- 280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
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- twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
Nav Lights
- Thread starter rhytid
- Start date
capz
New Member
rhytid,
I'm still in the boat wiring learning phase but I took a look at your wiring diagram. On page 17 it looks like your gauge lights should go on with your nav lights. If they do you can rule out the switch. Again, I'm no expert so I hope someone verifies if I'm reading it right.
I'm still in the boat wiring learning phase but I took a look at your wiring diagram. On page 17 it looks like your gauge lights should go on with your nav lights. If they do you can rule out the switch. Again, I'm no expert so I hope someone verifies if I'm reading it right.
tobnpr
New Member
I'm not busting your balls here because I understand the circumstances, but someone needs to point out to any new boaters on the board who don't know any better that it is NOT ok to display your nav lights while anchored. Nav lights are to be used only when the vessel is underway. Anything else violates regs.
- Oct 3, 2006
- 4,404
- Boat Info
- 280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
- Engines
- twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
Boy I was thinking this also.
The good news is around us there are so many people doing it wrong you may be in the majority, at least during the 4th of July.
Oh, as crazy as this sounds, if you are anchored in Wisconsin (instate water) and forget to turn your anchor lights on and are within 200’ of shore you are technically not in violation of the law. Not that I would do it but that’s the law around here.
"Every moored, anchored and drifting boat and other fi xed and
fl oating structures, outside of designated anchorages or beyond
200 feet from the shoreline shall be lighted from sunset to sunrise
by a white light visible all around the horizon. No other navigation
lights may be displayed."
See page 13
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/es/enforcement/docs/BoatingRegs.pdf
Woody
Well-Known Member
The 4th of july gets messy sometimes, especially if there is any wind. About half the boats anchor(usually the larger ones). The rest are trying to hold position or changing location so their nav lights are on(usually the smaller boats). It becomes a safety thing so alot of anchored boats leave their's on also.
JVM225
Well-Known Member
My switch has three positions. The middle one for off. Up for NAV lights (including instruments), and Down for Anchor light (no instrument lights).
If you aren't getting any instrument lights, then check the fuse, and make sure the breaker (if equipped) is on.
If the fuse is good and the breaker is on, then try unplugging the blade connector(s) from the rear of the switch and clean them and the switch itself with CDC contact cleaner. Place the blade connector(s) firmly back on the switch and try the lights again.
Electrical connections have a habit of turning green during the off season. This could cause a bad connection and prevent the lights from coming on.
If you aren't getting any instrument lights, then check the fuse, and make sure the breaker (if equipped) is on.
If the fuse is good and the breaker is on, then try unplugging the blade connector(s) from the rear of the switch and clean them and the switch itself with CDC contact cleaner. Place the blade connector(s) firmly back on the switch and try the lights again.
Electrical connections have a habit of turning green during the off season. This could cause a bad connection and prevent the lights from coming on.
- Oct 3, 2006
- 4,404
- Boat Info
- 280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
- Engines
- twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
Wouldn’t it be hilarious if it turns out he has two burnt out navigation lights?
Update (long)
Hey guys,
Finally had a chance to go down to the boat and work on it and see what the problem could be. It turned out to be quite an adventure as it took me about 4 hours to get it fixed.... and the sad thing is, I am not even exactly sure what I did.
I flipped the switch at the helm and the little indicator light went on so I figured the switch itself must be getting power and all was good. So I went up to the nav lights and checked the voltage... nothing.. hmm... could it be just the light housing itself was bad?? So I pulled the wires out and checked the voltage... nothing....
I reset the fuse for the nav light..... nothing....I thought maybe the fuse itself was bad so I switched it out with another of the same rating.... nothing.
I thought maybe the throttle had to be in gear... so I put it in forward (with the engine off).... Hey, I was desparate at this point and clueless about what else I could check..... again... nothing.
So I finally decided to pull the switch out and see if I could see anything... of course not. So I pulled the switch housing apart and as I did, I see little metal switch plates falling out from inside the housing and I am thinking "OH F**K ME!!!!" So I had to VERY VERY gingerly pull the housing off ANOTHER switch to see what it looked like so I could even begin to try and put it together.
So, I finally put it back together, after MULTIPLE attempts, I got the switch to the position where it had THREE stops.....
1. off
2. something
3. something
Now, this was different from what I started with as it had only TWO stops before.
1. off
2. anchor light
3. I could push it to the third position but it would just spring back to #2.... it was a momentary switch, I guess.
Well, by this point, I was just desparate so I decided to check the voltage at the nav lights.... with the switch in position #3, THERE WAS VOLTAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you imagine the Hallelujah music coming down from the heavens at this point??
I put the old housing back and checked.... NO LIGHTS!!! Luckily, I had bought a new set of lights... put those in and LIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, it seems that I had TWO separate problems.... a problem with the switch and the bulbs were blown as well.
So now, I have
#1. off
#2. anchor light only
#3. nav lights (and oh yeah... the dash lights come on too).
The ONLY problem I have now is that the indicator light on the switch doesn't work... but at this point, I don't care..... THE LIGHTS ARE WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK, I am done.... now I can take my little girl out to anchor out overnight and not have to worry that my safety equipment is not up to par.
Thanks for all the suggestions and reading this LONG post.
<HAN>
Hey guys,
Finally had a chance to go down to the boat and work on it and see what the problem could be. It turned out to be quite an adventure as it took me about 4 hours to get it fixed.... and the sad thing is, I am not even exactly sure what I did.
I flipped the switch at the helm and the little indicator light went on so I figured the switch itself must be getting power and all was good. So I went up to the nav lights and checked the voltage... nothing.. hmm... could it be just the light housing itself was bad?? So I pulled the wires out and checked the voltage... nothing....
I reset the fuse for the nav light..... nothing....I thought maybe the fuse itself was bad so I switched it out with another of the same rating.... nothing.
I thought maybe the throttle had to be in gear... so I put it in forward (with the engine off).... Hey, I was desparate at this point and clueless about what else I could check..... again... nothing.
So I finally decided to pull the switch out and see if I could see anything... of course not. So I pulled the switch housing apart and as I did, I see little metal switch plates falling out from inside the housing and I am thinking "OH F**K ME!!!!" So I had to VERY VERY gingerly pull the housing off ANOTHER switch to see what it looked like so I could even begin to try and put it together.
So, I finally put it back together, after MULTIPLE attempts, I got the switch to the position where it had THREE stops.....
1. off
2. something
3. something
Now, this was different from what I started with as it had only TWO stops before.
1. off
2. anchor light
3. I could push it to the third position but it would just spring back to #2.... it was a momentary switch, I guess.
Well, by this point, I was just desparate so I decided to check the voltage at the nav lights.... with the switch in position #3, THERE WAS VOLTAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you imagine the Hallelujah music coming down from the heavens at this point??
I put the old housing back and checked.... NO LIGHTS!!! Luckily, I had bought a new set of lights... put those in and LIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, it seems that I had TWO separate problems.... a problem with the switch and the bulbs were blown as well.
So now, I have
#1. off
#2. anchor light only
#3. nav lights (and oh yeah... the dash lights come on too).
The ONLY problem I have now is that the indicator light on the switch doesn't work... but at this point, I don't care..... THE LIGHTS ARE WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK, I am done.... now I can take my little girl out to anchor out overnight and not have to worry that my safety equipment is not up to par.
Thanks for all the suggestions and reading this LONG post.
<HAN>
- Oct 3, 2006
- 4,404
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- 280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
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- twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
Hey good job. Glad it worked out.
I picked up two issues this weekend on the boat that will need fixing. It happens to all of us.
I picked up two issues this weekend on the boat that will need fixing. It happens to all of us.
wastinaweigh
Member
- Oct 4, 2006
- 219
- Boat Info
- 260 Sundancer 2004
Kohler 5E Generator
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- 350 MAG Bravo III
Woody,
I just want to point out why leaving your nav lights on when you are anchored is a problem. When your nav lights are on, the rules assume that your boat is under command. If I am approaching you from your starboard side, where I will see your red nav light and your masthead light, I assume that you are the burdened vessel and that I am required to maintain my course and speed. If you are anchored, you cannot move your boat. If there is a collision, you will bear the brunt of the responsibility, as you will have violated two rules while I would have only violated one (the last one - to avoid a collision regardless of the rules).
What I do in situations like that is to leaves the lights on in the cabin, which lights up the portholes. I also use a flashlight (not my spotlight) to get peoples' attention if needed. Depending on the situation, I have even kept the cockpit lights on. The problem with using the nav lights that way is that you take a bad situation and potentially make it worse, not better.
I just want to point out why leaving your nav lights on when you are anchored is a problem. When your nav lights are on, the rules assume that your boat is under command. If I am approaching you from your starboard side, where I will see your red nav light and your masthead light, I assume that you are the burdened vessel and that I am required to maintain my course and speed. If you are anchored, you cannot move your boat. If there is a collision, you will bear the brunt of the responsibility, as you will have violated two rules while I would have only violated one (the last one - to avoid a collision regardless of the rules).
What I do in situations like that is to leaves the lights on in the cabin, which lights up the portholes. I also use a flashlight (not my spotlight) to get peoples' attention if needed. Depending on the situation, I have even kept the cockpit lights on. The problem with using the nav lights that way is that you take a bad situation and potentially make it worse, not better.
Woody
Well-Known Member
I agree with you and haven't run nav lites while anchored in any normal situation. This 4th July thing is a little special. Bunch of boats stuffed into the end of a small bay. I do like your idea of leaving the cabin lites on and will try that instead next month, that really should be enough help in this situation.
- Oct 3, 2006
- 4,404
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- 280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
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- twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
Ken,
There is an issue with your suggestion in Wisconsin. Wisconsin is working on repopulating the earth with the endangered insect called the Mosquito. They are doing a pretty good job of it too. These insects are drawn to lights like, well, like a mosquito is drawn to a light.
Turn on your anchor light, get mosquitoes by your anchor light. Turn on your cockpit lights, get mosquitoes in your cockpit. Turn on your cabin light…..well, you get the idea.
There is an issue with your suggestion in Wisconsin. Wisconsin is working on repopulating the earth with the endangered insect called the Mosquito. They are doing a pretty good job of it too. These insects are drawn to lights like, well, like a mosquito is drawn to a light.
Turn on your anchor light, get mosquitoes by your anchor light. Turn on your cockpit lights, get mosquitoes in your cockpit. Turn on your cabin light…..well, you get the idea.
Sea Gull
Well-Known Member
Ken,
I agree with all of your statements about the correct use of lights. But, I think you went too far in your statement that "If there is a collision, you will bear the brunt of the responsibility, as you will have violated two rules while I would have only violated one".
It would be interesting to find case law on this situation. In this case you would most certainly be charged with more than one violation and I would venture to guess that the violation of leaving your running lights on while achored is minor when compared to violating Rules 2, 5, 8 and 17!
Collision cases like this seem to rarely find 100% blame with one vessel. But in my book the vessel underway and making way would be more at fault.
I agree with all of your statements about the correct use of lights. But, I think you went too far in your statement that "If there is a collision, you will bear the brunt of the responsibility, as you will have violated two rules while I would have only violated one".
It would be interesting to find case law on this situation. In this case you would most certainly be charged with more than one violation and I would venture to guess that the violation of leaving your running lights on while achored is minor when compared to violating Rules 2, 5, 8 and 17!
Collision cases like this seem to rarely find 100% blame with one vessel. But in my book the vessel underway and making way would be more at fault.
Woody
Well-Known Member
I haven't had any problems with them getting into the cabin, they're to big to get in the door. What I hate is tethering the grandkids all the time so they're not carried off.
- Oct 3, 2006
- 4,404
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- 280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
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- twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
wastinaweigh
Member
- Oct 4, 2006
- 219
- Boat Info
- 260 Sundancer 2004
Kohler 5E Generator
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- 350 MAG Bravo III
Sea Gull,
First, let me just write that I am not being argumentative with you. Sometimes that is hard to tell on forums!
I'll concede your point that the moving vessel would violate the rules that you listed. I also agree that liability is rarely assigned 100% to a party.
The problem that the anchored boat would have, in my opinion (and I am a CPA, not a lawyer, so my opinion and a few dollars will get you a cup of coffee), is that the "Pennsylvania Rule" is going to come into play in this case. It states:
"In United States v. Nassau Marine, 778 F.2d 1111 (5 Cir. 1985), the court articulated a test for determining when to apply the presumption of the Pennsylvania Rule. That Court held that three elements must exist: (1) proof by a preponderance of the evidence of violation of a statute or regulation that imposes a mandatory duty: (2) the statute or regulation must involve marine safety or navigation; and (3) the injury suffered must be of a nature that the statute or regulation was intended to prevent. Id. at 1116-1117; Folkstone Maritime v. CSX Corporation, 1995 AMC 2705, 2716, 64 F.3d 1037, 1047 (7 Cir. 1995). If each of these criteria are satisfied, a party is entitled to a presumption that a statutory violation of a defendant caused, or at least contributed to, the injury or damage complained of."
Cited from: http://floridamaritimelawyer.clarislaw.com/general/maritime-law-applies-in-state-court-actions.php
If the moving vessel can show that the anchored vessel meets this test, the anchored vessel now has a big problem. It is much easier to show that you did not violate rules 2, 5, 8, and 17 than it is to show that displaying running lights at anchor is not a violation of Rule 30. That is my reasoning that the anchored vessel will probably bear a greater liability.
Of course, you can never be sure of what you will get in court.
First, let me just write that I am not being argumentative with you. Sometimes that is hard to tell on forums!
I'll concede your point that the moving vessel would violate the rules that you listed. I also agree that liability is rarely assigned 100% to a party.
The problem that the anchored boat would have, in my opinion (and I am a CPA, not a lawyer, so my opinion and a few dollars will get you a cup of coffee), is that the "Pennsylvania Rule" is going to come into play in this case. It states:
"In United States v. Nassau Marine, 778 F.2d 1111 (5 Cir. 1985), the court articulated a test for determining when to apply the presumption of the Pennsylvania Rule. That Court held that three elements must exist: (1) proof by a preponderance of the evidence of violation of a statute or regulation that imposes a mandatory duty: (2) the statute or regulation must involve marine safety or navigation; and (3) the injury suffered must be of a nature that the statute or regulation was intended to prevent. Id. at 1116-1117; Folkstone Maritime v. CSX Corporation, 1995 AMC 2705, 2716, 64 F.3d 1037, 1047 (7 Cir. 1995). If each of these criteria are satisfied, a party is entitled to a presumption that a statutory violation of a defendant caused, or at least contributed to, the injury or damage complained of."
Cited from: http://floridamaritimelawyer.clarislaw.com/general/maritime-law-applies-in-state-court-actions.php
If the moving vessel can show that the anchored vessel meets this test, the anchored vessel now has a big problem. It is much easier to show that you did not violate rules 2, 5, 8, and 17 than it is to show that displaying running lights at anchor is not a violation of Rule 30. That is my reasoning that the anchored vessel will probably bear a greater liability.
Of course, you can never be sure of what you will get in court.
wastinaweigh
Member
- Oct 4, 2006
- 219
- Boat Info
- 260 Sundancer 2004
Kohler 5E Generator
- Engines
- 350 MAG Bravo III
Doug,
I understand the mosquito problem - we have them down here also!
My experience, though, is that the bugs are more aggressive up north. Maybe it is because their season is shorter and they have to get their work done faster.
Cigars seem to keep them at bay. Problem is, they keep the Admiral away also. Where's DDT when you need it?
I understand the mosquito problem - we have them down here also!
My experience, though, is that the bugs are more aggressive up north. Maybe it is because their season is shorter and they have to get their work done faster.
Cigars seem to keep them at bay. Problem is, they keep the Admiral away also. Where's DDT when you need it?
