Moving up...to what?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Irie308, Sep 17, 2018.

  1. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    My 410 has a drop down bunk in the aft cabin that would work for a third kid if they were small. Can’t remember if that feature continued in the 420.
    I weigh about 180 and tried it out of curiosity for a brief minute when I first got the boat and although it was narrow for me, it held my weight.
    Aside from your bridge limits, another reason you may want to go for a Sundancer is the cockpit seating.
    Personally, I love the sedan bridges, but they wouldn’t suit us for the way we use our boat with our 21 & 18 year olds when they come out with us.
    They like to bring a bunch of friends out with us for the day and we typically use all of the seating in the cockpit.
    The 420 cockpit is about the same as mine, but the 480 is even nicer with a lot more space. I think the difference in the LOA of the two boats is mainly behind the helm seat giving the 480 all that extra cockpit room.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
  2. Irie308

    Irie308 Member SILVER Sponsor

    725
    May 28, 2013
    CT
    Boatless and currently in search of 420 or 480 DB
    350 Mercruisers V-drives
    If it were just the wife and I we would give serious thought to the 420. Part of me likes the thought of just running down to the marina and heading out at a moments notice without the worry of tides or bridges. However the space on the bridge boats is very attractive. The 42 and 48SD in the listed years are in the same price range hence why we are considering it. So realistically it’s between the 2. I think once we get down to it we’ll just bring the whole family to look at them both to get a feel for being aboard.

    We would definitely spend more time aboard if we had the room and I think the kids wouldn’t mind it either. Last year we took a 2 week trip aboard our 320 and it was great except for those who were late sleepers vs early risers.

    I also can’t get a good sense of the 48 SD clearance from the waterline to the hardtop. Have been searching but can’t find the specs.
     
  3. FootballFan

    FootballFan Well-Known Member

    Jun 20, 2012
    Florida
    Marquis 59
    MTU Series 60
    Does your bridge you go under have preset times they will open (for example only on the half hour)? Or on demand?

    I don't know the height of the possible models of fly bridge boats you might consider, but guess mid tide or lower you are ok. That means only a few hours each tide cycle that you have to open.

    Time when you leave the dock so you are at the bridge on their opening schedule.

    We open a lot of bridges when we are on the AICW. Thinking from Palm Beach to where we used to keep the boat just south of Fort Lauderdale there is 15 or so bridges to open... That is major pain.

    Dealing with a single bridge that you can control the outbound at least - not that big a deal.

    I would focus on the layout of the boat - whether that is dancer or flybridge - not on the 1 bridge. Find what works best for your family.

    Just my thoughts
     
  4. quality time

    quality time Well-Known Member

    Oct 30, 2007
    Upper Chesapeake Bay
    2003 480DB and Kencraft 190 CC
    QSM11's
    480DB height is around 21’ give or take a foot depending on electronics.

    Have you considered a 480MY? I know they aren’t the prettiest but tons of room and no height issue.
     
  5. tdschafer

    tdschafer Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2009
    Long island , NY
    1997 330 sundancer
    twin 454's, Carb, V-Drives
    We are in a similar situation Dean but, the kids are so active in sports that it encompassed almost the entire summer this year. This is why we are going back & forth on moving up, moving out or doing nothing. If we stay with the 330 DA we are basically giving up the trips & settling for day trips & an overnight here & there. Decisions, decisions......... Good luck with yours!
     
    JVM225 likes this.
  6. FootballFan

    FootballFan Well-Known Member

    Jun 20, 2012
    Florida
    Marquis 59
    MTU Series 60

    Actually I think the 480MY is a cool looking boat...
     
  7. Alex F

    Alex F Well-Known Member

    Nov 14, 2006
    East Coast
    2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Dual E120 MFD/Radar/XMWeather, ST7001 A/P, AIS, SeaLift
    T-Cummins 450Cs Straight-Drives, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
    Hey Todd,

    The options you've listed are kind of self explanatory:
    1. moving out - depressing.....:mad:
    2. doing nothing. If we stay with the 330 DA we are basically giving up the trips & settling for day trips & an overnight here & there. - Boring........:(
    3. moving up - Now that's exciting!!!!:):D

    Let me guess which option 100% of the forum will vote for? :D

    Dean,
    You're clearly up against a tough choice. DA vs DB and which one.....
    Obviously, 99% of bridge boats owners will advise you to go with the DB. We were DA lovers until we switched. However, it doesn't mean that DB/MY is for everyone. I can tell you all the benefits, but only you and Tammy can see what feels like home for you guys.

    420DB vs. 480DB:
    Start with basics. What fits the crew best 80-90% of the time. You said it yourself that 15 y/o is jumping the ship. So realistically, you're a crew of 4 and on a occasion, your older one will pay a visit for a day or maybe take a one long trip. If this is realistic outlook, then 420DB will sleep your crew in comfort.

    The Money - similar purchase price is true. However, once that's over, you're dealing with daily maintenance, operational and ownership cost. IMO, 480DB is about 25-30% more for everything.

    Obviously, you get more boat for the money with 480, but there's a difference in style since 420 is a newer model. If you really like 480 design, that only makes the decision easier. If the fact that 480 will be few years older is not a concern, that makes the decision even easier.

    We love our 420 no less than any 480 owners love theirs. However, I'll say something unusual.....In a way, I'm glad that we don't own something like 480/500DB only b/c it makes our upgrade decision so much easier. During our upgrade we never considered keeping our 420 forever. As our need for upgrade is slowly accelerating, moving up from 420 is so much easier than from 480. In other words, 5-7 years from now you'll be having a hard time justifying making a big move from 3 stateroom 50+ footer, which doesn't owe you anything on to something larger and much more expensive.

    Definitely a tough call, but as basic boat buying rule states, buy the biggest you can.

    Good luck!
     
  8. Steve 48 Sedan Bridge

    Steve 48 Sedan Bridge New Member

    7
    Mar 25, 2018
    2003 Sedan Bridge 48
    QMS 11s 640 hp
    I have a 13.5 geni on my seedan bridge 48 does anyone have any idea what the hourly fuel burn would be

    Steve
     
  9. BOB TYSON

    BOB TYSON Member SILVER Sponsor

    125
    Oct 5, 2017
    (tired of being) boatless.
    Cobalts 272,252,222
    Sea Ray 390 Express
    Chris Craft 21
    boatless
    We have considered Bridge boats and Sundancers for the last year. Both have their pros and cons. I asked many of the same questions from folks on this site. There is NO easy answer. I spoken to both kinds of owners who are looking at trading in their boats for the opposite. One of my best friends just bought a bridge boat. Im very close to closing on a Sundancer. (his is a 50', mine a 45'.). I copy and pasted arguments into the notes section of my browser along with multiple other suggestions regarding boats and engines. Here is what I have referenced from others :
    Downside to Sedan Bridge: aggravated wave motion, the sacrifice of cockpit space, and bridge clearance in one direction I typically head the most. When heading to the ocean I'd have to either call and wait for a bridge to be open or head the other way and go out a different inlet which is in the other direction from where I usually head and a little trickier to navigate.

    Going up and down to and from the bridge isn't too appealing to me anymore. I had a bridge boat back in the late 80's and usually found myself alone up there acting as a chauffeur while everyone else was down in the cockpit.


    I think the most sage advice spoken earlier was "How are YOU going REALLY use the boat >50% of the time?? If you are trying to forecast whether you will have kids, relatives, friends on the boat you will need to employ a crystal ball. I came to the conclusion that it would be my wife and I and we would be cruising as apposed to utilizing it for a water-board condo. Our adult children are ecstatic about "Dads Yacht" and can't wait to come aboard BUT, I know that will abate quickly over time, once the novelty wears off. Big purchase-think wisely . Ask people on this Great site. They are so helpful!
     
    Todd320 likes this.
  10. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    That’s what happened to us several years ago with our 300. Kids got older, more involved in things, less willing to overnight together because of limited separate sleeping spaces, so we stopped overnights.
    We moved up hoping that they would overnight with us, but now it’s summer jobs, and social lives that keep them from doing it.
    The upside is that now with both of them away at college our overnight trips, once they left, are getting longer and we’re way more comfortable with the extra space and creature comforts on the 410.
    The bonus for the kids in the summertime is that now they look forward to bringing a bunch of friends out with us for day trips because of all the extra space so at least we get to spend time with them on the boat on summer weekends. Usually we wind up having their friends parents raft up to us which makes for a fun day.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
    KevinC and tdschafer like this.
  11. KevinC

    KevinC Well-Known Member

    Feb 25, 2011
    Long Island, NY
    2004 340 Sundancer
    1988 Proline Center Console - 90hp Mariner/Mercury
    1969 Boston Whaler
    Twin 8.1 V-drives
    We had several discussions regarding this before moving up to the 340. We have two kids (right now 15/18) and they are big active boys. With college upon us for the next 7 years (or so) we did not want to commit to too big of a boat (because of upcoming expenses) and while the kids love the boat if we are not out with families with other kids their age they are "bored" (which I understand).

    The wife and I both love the boat for relaxation - this kids look for the excitement. Right now given the choice I think my 18yo would opt for our 17ft center console to go run around the bay with to explore and fish. My 15yo already is begging for a jetski and I want to upgrade the center console.

    Our saving grace is that our boys sleep on the salon couch and the mid cabin - giving all of us plenty of room. I don't think that they would be happy sleeping together in the mid-cabin together anymore. Now, there have been nights when we packed the boat with people sleeping everywhere because they wanted to have friends overnight but no one cared since they were all having fun. This would have been different if it was for a long trip.

    This leaves our 340 with plenty of room for just the two of us down the road. Long term, we will probably move to a 42/44 simply to move up to diesels to extend our cruising and get some additional ammenities and space. I know our kids love boating so they will probably come and visit and do a weekend here and there so have the extra space will be beneficial. But this is probably 7+ years out for us. Do I dream of larger boats - sure - but I try to stay realistic and understand the purchase is only one part of the long term ongoing expense.

    -Kevin
     
    Todd320, JVM225 and tdschafer like this.
  12. quality time

    quality time Well-Known Member

    Oct 30, 2007
    Upper Chesapeake Bay
    2003 480DB and Kencraft 190 CC
    QSM11's
    Alex nailed this point. We started getting the itch to upgrade this summer after five seasons but where do you go from the boat that has everything? Sure I like the newer styling of the 50/52DB but that's a lot of money for little change and we don't need a 56-58 footer. I still think you'll need 3 staterooms because your daughter will want her privacy in a few years. Heck, I have two daughters (9 & 12) and they don't even share a room on the boat.
     
  13. Havana Shamrock

    Havana Shamrock Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Sep 9, 2008
    Long Island.
    2005 500DB
    QSM11's,
    Honda 30HP
    Sea Doo 90 HP H.O.
    Dean, as you know combined we have 7 children and 2 grand Kids. We bought the largest boat we could the 500DB
    This season not one kid came with us on the flotilla so the wife and I moved into the port side stateroom and we both had our own bathrooms for 14 days.
    Now when they do come out either for the day or weekend room is not a problem.
    It’s great to have all the added space even if it’s only the two of you for a while.
    As for aggravated wave motion, we don’t experience that and the 500 is a full hardtop compared to the 420 with a 1/2 (less weight)
    Evryone has their own plan and sometimes that changes we thought we would only keep this boat 5 years then snowbird
    And get a smaller boat but now we’re taking it to FLA and doing the Bahamas,etc trips so no plans of selling now.
    You stated that your on the hook a lot. Remember, 420 fridges are 110/12v dc where as the 480db is only 110 vac so Genny use is more just FYI
    My point is, the bridge opening may be a hassle but the room you gain (granted you do sacrifice cockpit space a bit) is well worth the wait of the bridges.
     
    Keith Zibilich likes this.
  14. swaterhouse

    swaterhouse Active Member

    378
    Jan 7, 2015
    Mattapoisett, MA
    2007 Sundancer 44
    Cummins QSC 8.3

    What your not going to honor the trade we worked so hard to negotiate this summer? I let you win the dinghy race and all I get is a notice on a public forum of "sorry were keeping the boat" even though we have a perfectly good 2 year newer 44DA that you wanted!

    FINE keep your boat!

    In all seriousness, the Chesapeake cruise may have turned very expensive for us, we became big fans of the added space of the bridge boats. Now just back from the boat show in Newport and the admiral fell in love with full beam masters - CHA CHING, there goes another few hundred grand!
     
  15. Irie308

    Irie308 Member SILVER Sponsor

    725
    May 28, 2013
    CT
    Boatless and currently in search of 420 or 480 DB
    350 Mercruisers V-drives
    Gathering some good data points on this thread. Thanks all. I think its time to get out the old matrix and work up the pros and cons and wants vs needs. Fortunately we have friends with each of these models so a visit and a short cruise may be in order....we'll bring the treats!:) Truth be told we've never been out on a diesel much less a DB.
     
  16. Irie308

    Irie308 Member SILVER Sponsor

    725
    May 28, 2013
    CT
    Boatless and currently in search of 420 or 480 DB
    350 Mercruisers V-drives
    Haha...rule number 1 never bring the admiral to the boat show....number 2 never raft up with Joe and his craft with all the accoutrements!
     
  17. swaterhouse

    swaterhouse Active Member

    378
    Jan 7, 2015
    Mattapoisett, MA
    2007 Sundancer 44
    Cummins QSC 8.3
    That brings up one more item. Noise.

    Our previous boat had two 4 stroke outboards, from the helm at idle the only way you knew if they were running was to either look at the gauges or look for the water stream. At cruise wind noise was far more of an hindrance than engine noise to a conversation under way.

    In a DA your sitting just forward of the engines, under way there is a whine from the turbos as well as general noise. We find that we need to raise our voices or be looking at the other person in order to hear well while underway. I have done some work on sound deadening and it has helped a bit but there is only so much you can do.

    We haven't been in the bridge of a DB underway so cant say for sure but I can tell you from talking back and forth on the radio with DB boats you can't hear engine noise like you can with the DA boats.
     
  18. swaterhouse

    swaterhouse Active Member

    378
    Jan 7, 2015
    Mattapoisett, MA
    2007 Sundancer 44
    Cummins QSC 8.3
    We were surrounded! Three of essentially the same size 48/500/52 DB (all around 52' overall) to woo us over!

    As far as the Admiral goes, it's her that got us into the boat were in now, I was looking in the mid to high 30's - she wanted two staterooms and the 44DA was my "dream" so she didn't have to twist my arm. I remember going on a 44DA in the 2006-2008 time frame at the boat show and saying "someday"!
     
  19. Steve S

    Steve S Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    750
    Jun 5, 2007
    Northern IL.
    2000 400 Sedan Bridge with twin CAT 3116's

    2000 340 Sundancer - SOLD!
    210 Monaco 1987 - SOLD!
    Twin Caterpillar 3116's 350 HP straight drives
    On my 400 DB with the Cat 3116 engines it is pretty quiet when you close the bridge hatch. Mostly all you get is wind noise. Engine noise is minimal.
     
  20. bbwhitejr

    bbwhitejr Well-Known Member

    Apr 14, 2013
    Lake Lanier GA
    2007 44DB
    Cummins QSC 8.3s
    With the bridge hatch closed, alll you hear is wind. The diesel gen is really a lot quieter than the gas Kohler was in our DA.

    I am having a bridge cover being made so next summer I am going to pull the bridge enclosure off and leave it off all summer. Really looking forward to this!

    Bennett
     
    Steve S likes this.

Share This Page

Show Sidebar