Missing Boaters - NFL Players

tobnpr said:
Generally it is best to stay anchored. PROVIDED there is adequate scope- and that means ALOT of scope- at least 7:1- 10:1.

If unable to anchor safely, next bet would be a sea anchor. If you must motor, it's best done downsea but that's VERY hairy...if power is lost the boat will turn sideways in the trough and it's all over.

Inadequate scope means the bow will be unable to rise as the waves pass under the bow. I watched a buddy boat years ago have to cut his anchor line during a storm because he didn't have enough scope aboard and his bow was beginning to ship the building seas.

Pure conjecture, but this may have contributed to the tragedy in this case. Water depths are around 120 ft or so in the area where the boat was found. The vessel would have needed over 800' of rode to anchor safely- few boats in the 21' range can carry that much...
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We maybe should start a different thread discuss this.

I may be wrong so if I am please someone speak up.

Lets assume they did not have sea anchor.

From what I understand, given a high sea and dead motor, the thing you should do is deploy your bow anchor even if it never touches bottom. It will act as a sea anchor and will help keep you bow to the wind / waves. The bow gives you better protection then any other part of the boat.

If you can possibly secure a fender to the anchor to help it float it will work even better.

Again, please correct me if I’m wrong.
 
tobnpr said:
Pure conjecture, but this may have contributed to the tragedy in this case. Water depths are around 120 ft or so in the area where the boat was found. The vessel would have needed over 800' of rode to anchor safely- few boats in the 21' range can carry that much...
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I don't get the "anchored out at night" part of this story at all. I suppose the facts will come out in due time. This is a certainly a tragedy that could have been avoided.

-John
 
PlayDate said:
I don't get the "anchored out at night" part of this story at all. I suppose the facts will come out in due time. This is a certainly a tragedy that could have been avoided.

-John
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I’m assuming they anchored as a survival technique. They were not anchored to fish and party.
 
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Just wanted to say one more thing.


When do NFL players make the news off-field? It’s when they are involved with drugs, fights, gangs, dog fighting, etc.

They went fishing as a group of friends.

These guys made a fatal mistake or series of mistakes but they did not make a moral one.

Although these guys made a fatal mistake, I’d like us to keep that in mind.

Please.
 
This will become the subject of discussion for Boating Safety Courses for years to come.

If there is a positive to come from this tragic story perhaps it will come in the form of lives saved in the future by educating boaters of the harsh realities associated with boating accidents.

My prayers and condolences to the families of those lost.
 
unlvrebel said:
While I feel for the families these guys shouldn't have been out that far on that boat on Saturday. Period. Doesn't matter that the front rolled in as expected and Saturday seas were a relatively calm 3 - 4. A 21' boat deliberately going out into deteriorating conditions like that is foolhardy. While that front might not have been rolling in quicker than expected, since the Gulf is essentially a large bathtub, larger swells were bound to show up much earlier than the front. And if engine failure was the cause... You just don't go out in that impending crap.

Complete failure of duty by the captain. I would rather take my chances crossing the gulfstream on a dead calm day than to have gone out 30 miles off shore on Saturday. And being in Clearwater on Saturday; Saturday was no picnic. I passed on an invitation to go out on a friends boat in the morning and I was told that I should be glad that I did. Conditions on-shore sucked!

Just a dumb, dumb move.
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Ditto.
We were thinking about going out saturday in my 56 footer and I waved off because of the seas at 10:00 a.m. I just can't imagine the thought process that was going on to prompt them to go out. I feel for their families but bottom line that was just stupid. A 21 ftr with one engine?
EPIRB = 800.00 Life = priceless
 
Back in my flying days we talked about the series of mistakes/error that lead up to a fatal mistake.

Could have started weeks before:

ie: Setting a hard date and time for the trip that really did not have to happen.
Man/Boys saying ye we can do that, etc.
 
They've called off the search.
That really cannot be a good way to go.
 
All day I've been hearing about the "Search for two missing NFL players and another man." We would be hearing NOTHING about this nationally if it weren't NFL guys involved. It's a shame that they have become poster children for the "lost at sea" topic, but it is making us very aware of safety issues - hopefully it raises the awareness of other boaters. Then the lives lost would not be for naught.
 
Presentation said:
From what I understand, given a high sea and dead motor, the thing you should do is deploy your bow anchor even if it never touches bottom. It will act as a sea anchor and will help keep you bow to the wind / waves. The bow gives you better protection then any other part of the boat.

If you can possibly secure a fender to the anchor to help it float it will work even better.

Again, please correct me if I’m wrong.
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I don't think there's an advantage to trying to "float" the anchor as I think that would actually lessen the amount of drag created, but yes, dragging rode and anchor can help. Anything that creates enough drag to hold the bow into the seas, acting as a sea anchor.

Good info in this article on heavy-weather anchoring:
http://yachtpals.com/anchoring
 
Presentation said:
These guys made a fatal mistake or series of mistakes but they did not make a moral one.
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Well the captain did. He decided to chance running out in conditions that were clearly forecasted as deteriorating. The first responsibility of every captain is the safely of his crew and passengers. The captain should have superior knowledge and judgement. It's his duty to make the go / no go call.

When we decide to take the boat out or not to take the boat out, we're not only deciding between having a good time with our friends and families, or sitting on the dock. We're also deciding the safely of those who accompany us.

Someone said on another thread that I worry a lot. Not really. I just don't want to find myself in a situation where I have to find a way to somehow save my crew from an injury, or something much worse.

Best regards,
Frank C
 
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immoral |i(m)ˈmôrəl; -ˈmärəl|
adjective
not conforming to accepted standards of morality : an immoral and unwinnable war.
DERIVATIVES
immorality |ˌiməˈralitē; ˌimô-| noun ( pl. -ties)
immorally adverb
USAGE Immoral means 'failing to adhere to moral standards.' Amoral is a more neutral, impartial word meaning 'without, or not concerned with, moral standards.' An immoral person commits acts that violate society’s moral norms. An amoral person has no understanding of these norms, or no sense of right and wrong; the word may refer to a 'social deviant.' Amoral may also mean 'not concerned with, or outside the scope of morality' (following the pattern of apolitical, asexual). Amoral, then, may refer to a judicial ruling that is concerned only with narrow legal or financial issues. Whereas amoral may be simply descriptive, immoral is judgmental.
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Making a decision that puts life in jeopardy and then following though on it seems to me to violate society's norms.
 
These guys could have been drunk with a bunch of hookers, so what. Morality doesn't even belong in the discussion. They made poor decisions as boaters that generated some very bad results.
 
From one to all who have experienced the rath of Mother nature, I pray now as I did then for the safe return of all.
 
Woody said:
These guys could have been drunk with a bunch of hookers, so what. Morality doesn't even belong in the discussion. They made poor decisions as boaters that generated some very bad results.
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Here we go, one step closer to socialism, or maybe communism, or some kinda ism.

Why would you presume to tell others what they should be talking about? Did you get appointed thread police? I thought that is Wes's job. This is AMERICA, and people should be able to talk about what they want. If you don't like it, don't become a part of the discussion. I bet you get in the way of people who like to speed on the highway in the fast lane. LOL!
 
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So just who was the "captain" here? I for one find it hard to believe that four grown men would even attempt this., I am not for more gov-mint, but sometimes, I am inclined to lean towards some type of mandatory boating course requirements.

Things can change, but I know for myself going that far offshore, I want to have the best weather picture and information I can for hundreds of miles around. If I was making a 50 mile crossing that is one thing, but to be going out 50 miles into just the open ocean in a 21 footer, would involve many gray cells on my part, and I would damn site want to have some emergency safety items available.

Hindsight is 20/20, but this is just tragic, and from what I can ascertain, possibly could have been avoided
 
islandhopper00 said:
........ I bet you get in the way of people who like to speed on the highway in the fast lane. LOL!
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Never, but here is how you do it.

You get along side a big slow truck. You keep your speed even with the truck so the person behind you is bottle necked. Then when you see Johnny Law ahead in the median you slow down and pull over into the right lane behind the truck.

The person you were holding up will fly past you at wide open throttle.



Works like a charm!
 
Presentation said:
Never, but here is how you do it.

You get along side a big slow truck. You keep your speed even with the truck so the person behind you is bottle necked. Then when you see Johnny Law ahead in the median you slow down and pull over into the right lane behind the truck.

The person you were holding up will fly past you at wide open throttle.



Works like a charm!
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If you don't get shot.
 
I always let left lane speeding a-holes blow by me. They smoke out all the troopers that lay in wait!
 
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