Meridian Yachts 441 Sedan Bridge with PODS - 37.7 MPH top speed

[Vince_nj1]

Pretty good article comparing this boat with standard shafts to the same boat with Zeus pods. Impressive performance gains. If you register with Boat test you can watch the video. The upgraded engines and pods add $91,333 to the cost. :wow:. That is a lot of coin.. Are the making these things out of precious metals?

We’ll start with top speed.

This a tremendous improvement in performance. Let's remember, however, that the 480 QSB engines are putting out 110 more horsepower together, 13% more than with the 425s driving through straight shafts.

Now let’s take a look at cruise speed.

 

[Iprof]

I was on this boat Monday at the Toronto boat show, the 391 that is there I was out on the water last summer on Georgian Bay. Very nice boats, well built and nicley layed out. The wife liked the 391 better than the 441, if I was not retiring we would have bought the 391.


Ken

 

[AKBASSKING]

I saw the vidio. Pretty impressive. I will be checking out the 331-541 at the Seattle boat show. See if I can get a few pics

 

[Red Stripe]

I will be checking out the 331-541 at the Seattle boat show. See if I can get a few pics

Here are their virtual tours to tide you over...

541:
http://vt.us.s3.amazonaws.com/ma841/index.html

441:
http://vt.us.s3.amazonaws.com/ma840/index.html

391:
http://virtual-tours.com/vt/ma839/

341:
http://vt.us.s3.amazonaws.com/ma842/index.html

 

[magster65]

Here are their virtual tours to tide you over...

541:
http://vt.us.s3.amazonaws.com/ma841/index.html

441:
http://vt.us.s3.amazonaws.com/ma840/index.html

391:
http://virtual-tours.com/vt/ma839/

341:
http://vt.us.s3.amazonaws.com/ma842/index.html

LOL... look at that tv on the bridge of the 541... what were they thinking?
A beautiful perfect yacht with a big dirty tv mounted in a really dumb spot... :lol:

 

[comsnark]

I am going to ask a few really dumb questions: so forgive me if they are totally out of left field;

1) Where are the pods mounted relative where typical props in the straight shaft boat (are they straight shaft or V-Drive?). Are the engines in the same place in the two boats?

2) Are these boats designed for straight shaft or pods?

What I am saying, is that if the hull is not designed for 37mph to start with; I bet it takes a heck of alot more than "add 10% more HP" to get "30% more momentum". I suspect that the boat is actually optimized for the pods; and that putting in the straight shafts makes the hull design so inefficient that you see the dramatically lower performance figures. The inefficiency is also reflected in the fuel economy.

 

[Red Stripe]

1) Where are the pods mounted relative where typical props in the straight shaft boat (are they straight shaft or V-Drive?). Are the engines in the same place in the two boats?

2) Are these boats designed for straight shaft or pods?

The engine room in both boats is aft, accessible from the cockpit (you'll see in the virtual tour the utility room, or as I like to call it, "the basement" below the salon sole). The inboard 441 therefore has V-drives. While it wasn't designed around the POD drives as was the 541, it was designed with their eventual availability in mind. I haven't heard specifically, but have wondered if that's the same plan for the new 450 DB which is a V-Drive boat.

 

[Overextended]

Two different hull designs based on v vs pod. The pod hull has less of the keel that you see on many Meridians. I asked this while down at Yacht Expo.

 

[Red Stripe]

This was shot at Yacht Expo on the same boat Boattest used for their test. There were probably 10-12 people on board at the time.

 

[folieadeux]

I was on this boat Monday at the Toronto boat show, the 391 that is there I was out on the water last summer on Georgian Bay. Very nice boats, well built and nicley layed out. The wife liked the 391 better than the 441, if I was not retiring we would have bought the 391.


Ken

We bought a 391 last winter and LOVE the boat. We looked at every model is the 40'-45' class and the 391 won hands down. The interior design and the bridge are winners. If you buy one go for the Cummins engines, you will not be sorry.

 

[fc3]

Zeus... in a meridian? Two good reasons to say "No, thank you!"

 

[Fell 4 it]

We looked at the 441 and 541 at the Yacht Expo and they are indeed great value boats. The 441 and 541 test boats were equipped with Zeus. I cannot justify the $91k for the Zeus option on the 441 by the improved performance and reduced fuel burn alone. In addition, I'd be concerned about ripping off pods if I ever grounded the boat. I bet it would be cheaper to just get new props and balance the shafts on the standard V-Drives. Zeus is the only option for the 541. I'm strongly considering getting out of early retirement to be able to afford one of these.

Zeus... in a meridian? Two good reasons to say "No, thank you!"

Care to expand on this?

LOL... look at that tv on the bridge of the 541... what were they thinking?
A beautiful perfect yacht with a big dirty tv mounted in a really dumb spot... :lol:

The TV at that position is an option. I agree it looks out of place.

 

[Red Stripe]

I'd be concerned about ripping off pods if I ever grounded the boat. I bet it would be cheaper to just get new props and balance the shafts on the standard V-Drives

In most if not all cases, any impact significant enough to rip off pods would probably put a hole in a an inboard boat or certainly cause damage well beyond a need to simply balance the shafts and replace the props. I'm not suggesting a sheared off pod would not be a more costly event, but the hull is protected from water intrusion in the event they shear off. For the pods to shear you're talking about a major impact event. There is a common and understandable misconception that even a slow, soft grounding will cause pods to shear off. It will not.

 

[fwebster]

The pods are designed to break shear bolts before the hull is damaged. When that occurs is anyone's guess, and if I owned one, I wouldn't want to find out. the Zeus drives are about $25K each, plus you lose a drive shaft when one breaks away. That, freight, labor, haul out, and you are looking at about $30K if you lose a drive. I guess the answer is to hit the MOB button on your GPS/plotter, turn around and go diving for the drive when you break one off.

I don't know how Volvo does it, but Mercruiser's Zeus drive has a drive shaft coupling the transmission to the upper gear case. The engine can then be mounted as close or as far from the drive in the hull as it needs to be to achieve the right weight/balance.

The one thing in everything you guys posted from the boat tests that I cannot get past is that Cummins is eeking 480hp out of the base B series engine. That bothers me because I remember the days when their top rated B series (300hp) couldn't stand up to the load of a 420DA. Be careful if they are doing it by raising the rated RPM's. The cheapest, easiest way to get hp is to increase the amount of fuel burned and its very easy to do that by lightening up the rotating assembly and changing pump profile. I just worry about a 480hp B series longevity.

 

[fc3]

You haven't been paying attention.

Mercury Marine has a long-established, and quite poor track record for releasing new products to production long, long before the engineering and QC work is finished. They, in effect, make their customers the alpha and beta testers of unproven and unreliable products. Not until several thousand units are in the public's hands for a number of years would it be prudent to purchase a Zeus equipped boat. Furthermore, the Zeus option is extremely expensive while Meridian is a value priced boat. The problem comes in the resale market where value boats don't command premium prices despite having premium options, like Zeus. The value problem for a potential buyer is therefore multiplied. Zeus, like most new Merc products, might prove to be expensive to maintain and / or problem ridden, which is a loss of value. Further erroding that value is that buyers of used value-priced boat are not interested in paying premiums for expensive options like Zeus, even if they were working. Multiply them together and it's a recipe for a financial disaster for an owner.

The most logical purchase for a buyer who wants to have the advantages of Pod drives is to purchase one of the many boats with Volvo's well-regarded IPS system.

 

[David Paul]

Zeus drives probably have not been installed on enough boats yet to make any kind of determination as to their dependability. Volvo's drives are probably in more widespread use and I have seen no negative feedback on them either. Is anyone aware of problems with either of these company's pod drives?

 

[Fell 4 it]

You haven't been paying attention.

So in essence, you are basing your personal opinion entirely on Mercury's history with other products and not specific experience with the Zeus product.

If you're saying that the Zeus pricing premium will not be recovered on resale, I fully agree with you but I wouldn't consider that to be a "financial disaster". Fact is all boats depreciate and trading prices are a question supply and demand.

 

[fwebster]

Both systems are plagued by dealer support problems that may get solved when enough pod drives get in the hands of owners. But, for now, Merc won't even let a Sea Ray dealer work on the drive.

The one Zues drive our dealer ordered needed to have the zinc plates replaced and Merc sent someone in to do that.......remove 4 bolts and redrill 2, then reinstall 4 bolts. It says something to me that one of the largest yacht and sport yacht dealers in the country won't order either a Zues or Axxius boat unless a customer demands that they do, and so far none have wanted the risk.

As far as Volvo IPS is concerned, they do have their problems. The owner of a 55 (??) Regal with IPS drives damaged a prop and his dealer never could get all the vibration out of the boat.......owner tried to sell it thru a broker up north with no success. He decided to move it to So. Fla. with a hired crew. After the engine warmed up, the ips system sensed either the vibration or an rpm differential and switched both systems to limp home mode. Those folks ran the boat 10 days down the various rivers at 8 kts., all the while trying to find a set of props from any Volvo dealer in the country. Finally reaching the NW Fla coast where there are haul out facilities, they had the boat hauled and a yacht service company to pull the props and check the drives. The dealer up north had installed the repaired prop with a spacer in the wrong place and the vibration was venting or cavitation. The last we saw the Regal she was heading out the pass at cruise speeds.

Don't get me wrong, I love the way a Zues boat handles. I'm not a buyer at $100K premium + a lot of down time risk........since I'd have to wait for Mercruiser to send in a repair man. The financial exposure to added depreciation and repairs to an unproven drive system trouble me. I've got a conventional v-drive boat that cruises at 22 kts and burns 22 gph. It takes me where I want to go and I can put it where it needs to be without a bow thruster and a Zeus drive. I do give up some speed, but I'll stick with tried, proven technology........thank's; but no thanks.

 

[Vince_nj1]

Furthermore, the Zeus option is extremely expensive while Meridian is a value priced boat.

Even the cheapest set up is over $600,000. I don't consider that valued priced. They might be cheaper than a comparable SeaRay, but all the prices on the latest boats are simply ridicules. For $600k I could buy a nice used 420 Sedan Bridge, (350k?) a condo in Florida, (100k?) a Ferrari (100k?) and have plenty of cash left over for insurance, fuel and mainteance.

 

[fc3]

So in essence, you are basing your personal opinion entirely on Mercury's history with other products and not specific experience with the Zeus product.

If you're saying that the Zeus pricing premium will not be recovered on resale, I fully agree with you but I wouldn't consider that to be a "financial disaster". Fact is all boats depreciate and trading prices are a question supply and demand.

No, I'm basing on Mercury's history, not my personal history. I never owned a SportJet, but everyone knows that they were just that were prone to powerhead failures. Never had a Bravo III but I know that for the first several years of production, they the unit's had a severe corrosion problem. They even screwed up the 8.1s that should have been a simple upgrade from the 7.4.

Nominally one recovers a certain percentage of a major option on resale. For example, a 410DA with diesel engines sells today for a substantial premium over a 410DA with gas engines. It's still a depreciated, but there's some recovery. On the other hand, 40' Rinker's and Carvers with diesels, if you can find one, sell for about the same thing as the gas boats because value boat buyers don't want to pay more for silly things like diesel engines. Did I make that up on my own? No, a few different dealers of new Rinkers and Carvers told me not to consider diesel power since owners tend to lose much of that diesel value at trade-in / resale. To get back a couple percent on a 100 grand option seems to be a disaster when the added to nominal depreciation. And if early Zeus boats turn out to become known as "problem boats" that will be a bigger deduction.




$600k might not be cheap, but it's a $400 "value" from a million or more. Priced new mid-40 foot boat recently?