Meridian is a Sea Ray?

[Hotlanta]

Frank summed it up very clearly. It's all about resources. I have toured many manufacturing facilitates including Sea Rays Merritt Island factory in the past several years. Today it's all about utilization of capacity of the factory and work force. Every brand of hand held power tool are now built in just a few factories in Asia, however all have different specs and target markets. Designs of manufactured goods such as Sea Rays, Bay liners and Meridian are distinctly different . When engineers design products the parts bin for a $500K and a $300K product have to be different. It is possible that SOP of a factory like the Merritt Island plant will improve a good product to a better one because of the superior manufacturing equipment and the 6 sigma work teams that look at continuous improvement. But a Duck is still a duck not matter where it is raised. Just my 2 cents.

 

[islandhopper00]

I think Frank is right on.
There can be beneift to doing business this way also.

If I had a "wish" to spend on boat manafacturing in general it would be, Allow the line worker more time to perform their jobs, in a better more quality minded way. Or at least ensure the line worker is turning out the quality, that particular manafacturer is striving for.

In my boat, I see quality products installed hap hazardly. If the worker took their time just alittle bit, cut off the ends a little straighter, tightened that nut or bolt just alittle tighter, lined up that whatever to whatever, it would work better.

 

[OldSkool]

I do know a little about manufacturing and you are still wrong.

Producing different brand boats in the same factory is about capacity resource utilization and has nothing to do with homoginization of the finished product. The intent and end result is about how to stay in business and continue to offer product for folks like us to enjoy. While space and process capability is used to manufacture Bayliner or Meridian products, they are completely different designs, have different layup schedules, different component lists, have different target markets, etc. They are not Sea Rays and will never be.

But you can keep on believing what ever you chose.......just try to confine what you post to facts and not conjecture.

Great post Frank.

Take Volvo for instance. They own Mack truck, Volvo Truck, Nissan Diesel, Renault Truck, Provost Bus, Penta, Volvo Construction Equipment, Volvo Power Train, Volvo bus, Linglong manufacturing, and God knows what else. We are not talking about 5-10% ownership here but wholly owned. They manufacture all over the world. Many different products lines built in the same plant. Parts come from every type of supplier and the only thing most common across business lines is the engine and many times not even that.

Even within different platform groups produced within the same division there are engineering and component differences. An excavator built in Korea will be miles different than the ones built in France because the applications are different.

Volvo produces an entirely different model of machine for the 2nd and 3rd world countries that are affordable for those countries. You will never see them and the components are very different that the flagship brand.

They don’t even own the cars anymore but they are still built in Sweden using Volvo standards or they would loose the Volvo nomenclature if the standard was dropped.
That being said. A Volvo's a Volvo, a Mack's a Mack, and so on.
The one thing that is common is the increase in quality assurance that the new owner brings.
Whether this is perceived or actual will be proven in the market.

 

[Lazy Daze]

In my boat, I see quality products installed hap hazardly. If the worker took their time just alittle bit, cut off the ends a little straighter, tightened that nut or bolt just alittle tighter, lined up that whatever to whatever, it would work better.

You hit the nail on the head with that statement. That "finish quality" was definitely not up to par in the mid to late '00's. On the plus side, I can say that there has been a turn around as of the last year and half, or so. What we see here (at the store) is that we are not having to do as much "prep" work to a boat when it comes in. It used to be that we'd have to fix a gel problem, replace this or replace that. Those issues have gone done dramatically. I hope that this trend continues to improve.

 

[Hellman Huddle]

Great post Frank.

Take Volvo for instance. They own Mack truck, Volvo Truck, Nissan Diesel, Renault Truck, Provost Bus, Penta, Volvo Construction Equipment, Volvo Power Train, Volvo bus, Linglong manufacturing, and God knows what else. We are not talking about 5-10% ownership here but wholly owned. They manufacture all over the world. Many different products lines built in the same plant. Parts come from every type of supplier and the only thing most common across business lines is the engine and many times not even that.

Even within different platform groups produced within the same division there are engineering and component differences. An excavator built in Korea will be miles different than the ones built in France because the applications are different.

Volvo produces an entirely different model of machine for the 2nd and 3rd world countries that are affordable for those countries. You will never see them and the components are very different that the flagship brand.

They don’t even own the cars anymore but they are still built in Sweden using Volvo standards or they would loose the Volvo nomenclature if the standard was dropped.
That being said. A Volvo's a Volvo, a Mack's a Mack, and so on.
The one thing that is common is the increase in quality assurance that the new owner brings.
Whether this is perceived or actual will be proven in the market.

Yep you are right! But, the trucking business is booming the boating business dooming!

 

[Bridog]

You hit the nail on the head with that statement. That "finish quality" was definitely not up to par in the mid to late '00's. On the plus side, I can say that there has been a turn around as of the last year and half, or so. What we see here (at the store) is that we are not having to do as much "prep" work to a boat when it comes in. It used to be that we'd have to fix a gel problem, replace this or replace that. Those issues have gone done dramatically. I hope that this trend continues to improve.

Dennis, As a person who bought a Sea Ray in the mid 2000's. (2006) what do you think attributed to the decline of QC? Volume? I value your opinion. Thanks, Brian

 

[Lazy Daze]

Dennis, As a person who bought a Sea Ray in the mid 2000's. (2006) what do you think attributed to the decline of QC? Volume? I value your opinion. Thanks, Brian

Brian, don't get me wrong - it wasn't like they went completely downhill or there were problems with every boat. But there was certainly a higher incidence of problems. I agree with your thought... Volume and lack of quality control. Along with some of the seasoned veterans retiring and trying to fill their spots with younger, less patient workers. With the recent change in the upper ranks, addressing those problems was a high priority. As workers were let go over the last few years, Sea Ray was well aware that it was important to keep the highly skilled workers, rather than just try to "get by" with the less experienced (cheaper) workers. I'm an optimistic person, by nature, but I feel good about the direction the company is heading. I just hope the economy can support enough buyers to keep things going.

 

[mistercomputerman]

Maybe this will help.

Connie Ray (C. Ray) founded the company in 1959 and ran it until he sold it. One man, his way.
"He believed that distribution was king, that you built a good-quality boat, backed it up, delivered good customer service, and got the best dealers," said Robert J. Parmentier, Sea Ray's president and an employee of Ray's in the early 1980s.

Brunswick owns Sea Ray now. Corporate America. 'nuff said.

 

[OldSkool]

Hellman,
I hear you loud and clear the equipment business went from 185,000 units in 2006 to 65,000 units total in 2008 in North America. Volvo acquired Ingersoll Rands road division to bolster it portfolio against the commercial construction fall out and be ready for the infrastructure increase that always happens in a recession.
Now all machines for North America will be built out of that plant on five different lines in the near future. Hence my relocation that I've talked about.
Ingersoll makes a great machine so why change it. Ingersoll required we change the name in one year but they made a great machine. Still use the same line, folks and materials.

 

[comsnark]

I looked at a 541 and the quality was comparable at 1/2 the price. One would be foolish to think that some of the best manufacturing techniques used by Sea Ray would not be also be used on Meridians. Just from a busniess stratagy they would use some of the same materials. Thats like saying Ford and Mercury do not use the same manufacturing...

You have a great (and to some extent valid) point but an inaccurate analogy. It is not quite the same as Ford and Mercury or Chevy and GMC. In your example the cars get basically a different- grill, a few body panels and emblem. Everyhting else is the same. The differences discussed here between Sea Ray and other brands manufactured in the same facility go deeper than just cosmetics. There are no doubt some similarities but many differences too. Do I think the new Sea Rays are over priced- yes; but the 50% extra money is not in the Sea Ray emblems alone.

Yes BUT. . .

. . . Don't both smaller Bayliners and Sea Rays use the same Mercruiser engines and outdrives? I am willing to bet a 5.0L mercruiser with BIII would be basically interchangeable between a Sea Ray and Bayliner.

. . . I had a Caddy. I have driven a large number of Chevy's and Buicks. I can tell you that the while the engines, stereos, fit and finish were different, the Key Fobs and the stupid cruise control stalks were identical. As were the windshield wipers controls.

OF COURSE if you are targetting the boats to a different market, much of the equipment (seats, refrigerators, etc) will be the upgraded -> but many other components like engines, screws, cleats, bolts, etc will logically eventually be commonized. It would be wasteful and crazy not to look for those kind of cost savings.

It would be sad if Sea Rays start cutting corners to reduce the price. The economy is not coming back for a long time, so change is inevitable.

The goal is to reduce building cost. The market will determine price. Building cost only sets the minimum price. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The market allows Apple to have a much higher margin on their products than HP.

Producing different brand boats in the same factory is about capacity resource utilization and has nothing to do with homoginization of the finished product. The intent and end result is about how to stay in business and continue to offer product for folks like us to enjoy. While space and process capability is used to manufacture Bayliner or Meridian products, they are completely different designs, have different layup schedules, different component lists, have different target markets, etc. They are not Sea Rays and will never be.

But you can keep on believing what ever you chose.......just try to confine what you post to facts and not conjecture.

Absolutely. Major components like Hulls, and the interior finish are likely to remain distinct. But commonizing *where it makes sense* has got to be a medium term profitability / survivability objective.

Great post Frank. They don’t even own the cars anymore but they are still built in Sweden using Volvo standards or they would loose the Volvo nomenclature if the standard was dropped. [/FONT]

Really? Who would take Volvo nomenclature from them if they decide to change standards? Ford? I doubt they retained brand branding rights after they SOLD the company. Would this be decided by a court in Sweden? Or China?

Brian, don't get me wrong - it wasn't like they went completely downhill or there were problems with every boat. But there was certainly a higher incidence of problems. I agree with your thought... Volume and lack of quality control. Along with some of the seasoned veterans retiring and trying to fill their spots with younger, less patient workers. With the recent change in the upper ranks, addressing those problems was a high priority. As workers were let go over the last few years, Sea Ray was well aware that it was important to keep the highly skilled workers, rather than just try to "get by" with the less experienced (cheaper) workers. I'm an optimistic person, by nature, but I feel good about the direction the company is heading. I just hope the economy can support enough buyers to keep things going.

And that is the true hope for the brand. Management stepping in to make the necessary changes to MAINTAIN the reputation. You sure can make a budget boat and a premium boat under the same roof. . . if you want to make both. If you want to make two brands of budget boats but sell one at a premium. . .sooner or later the marketplace will let you know the error of your ways.

 

[OldSkool]

It is a condition of contract to use the Volvo name. Any standard in performance or saftey that would cause the brand to be harmed and the name is pulled. Set by court of law in Sweden. China aquired Volvo in a three way purchase from Ford that included Land Rover and Jaguar.

I know you to be a learned person and you know that brand setting is serious business. Volvo could not allow any product to tarnish its brand without contractual agreements by the purchaser.

 

[Lazy Daze]

Comsnark, just to add something in regards to component quality.

Yes, the same base engine is used in a BL & SR. But, a SR will get more features on the engine (either standard or optional)... such as power steering, Smartcraft, etc. It's also up to each manufacturer to install the engine and it is done to a higher degree of quality (let's agree that it at least should be done to a higher degree, regardless of what has happened over the last few years) in a SR. For instance, engine mounts, wiring (neatly run, wire loomed), etc.

Another thing that changes from SR to BL is the quality of individual parts such as cleats, dash switches, canvas, camper enclosures, seat vinyl and seat foam, etc. Now, I'm doing a little guessing here of my own, but I absolutely can't imagine that these parts would end up being shared. If these parts were put on a BL, it would become more expensive and BL would lose sales as it would no longer be priced as an "entry level boat".

Note: I'm not saying BL is a bad boat. It's fine for what it is meant to be - a price-point boat. But there are significant differences between SR and BL (also hull design engineering and "everyday usability" of the boat).

 

[floriduramax1]

It is a condition of contract to use the Volvo name. Any standard in performance or saftey that would cause the brand to be harmed and the name is pulled. Set by court of law in Sweden. China aquired Volvo in a three way purchase from Ford that included Land Rover and Jaguar.

I know you to be a learned person and you know that brand setting is serious business. Volvo could not allow any product to tarnish its brand without contractual agreements by the purchaser.

Who actually owns Volvo truck division? Ever since they bought out Prevost in Canada, the quality has dropped like rock! I have been working on Prevosts since 83 and they were top quality with PERFECT wiring diagrams, schematics and wire routing, but now....not so much. And their "Volvo" electronics like instrument clusters...are literally "clusters"!!! Sorry for OT but could not resist the question.

 

[OldSkool]

Who actually owns Volvo truck division? Ever since they bought out Prevost in Canada, the quality has dropped like rock! I have been working on Prevosts since 83 and they were top quality with PERFECT wiring diagrams, schematics and wire routing, but now....not so much. And their "Volvo" electronics like instrument clusters...are literally "clusters"!!! Sorry for OT but could not resist the question.

AB Volvo is the parent company. I can't speak for Prevost as I have no direct contact with them or any other business line in the AB family. I can contact help desks through inner contacts but only if they wish to respond back. Penta has answered all my questions as a professional courtesy.

I must be careful here as to not speak for the company in open forum as I am not part of the communications team. I only offer some view points on manufacturing and tech stuff when possible. My views are only my views and do not represent the company.

The ownership of various companies within AB Volvo a matter of open record so no harm there.

I can appreciate that you are a viable part of the industry and I know your comments do not come as jabs but actual experience with the systems.

Sorry I can’t offer an answer as I’m not close to that business line.

 

[Dave S]

For those of you who wish to understand what happened when Meridian merged their operation into the Sea Ray Palm Coast plant, you may want to read this article in Meridian's (on line) magazine. It explains very clearly why they did it and how they did it. It also explains the fact that the two lines (Sea Ray and Meridian) remain distinctly different.

http://www.nxtbook.com/dino/MeridianLinesVol2Iss1/MeridianLinesVol2Iss1/index.php#/32

Dave S.

 

[floriduramax1]

AB Volvo is the parent company. I can't speak for Prevost as I have no direct contact with them or any other business line in the AB family. I can contact help desks through inner contacts but only if they wish to respond back. Penta has answered all my questions as a professional courtesy.

I must be careful here as to not speak for the company in open forum as I am not part of the communications team. I only offer some view points on manufacturing and tech stuff when possible. My views are only my views and do not represent the company.

The ownership of various companies within AB Volvo a matter of open record so no harm there.

I can appreciate that you are a viable part of the industry and I know your comments do not come as jabs but actual experience with the systems.

Sorry I can’t offer an answer as I’m not close to that business line.

:thumbsup::thumbsup: