Marina did not winterize my boat. Need Advice...

[Singletrackmind]

Hello everyone, new guy here. If this is the wrong place for this then I am sorry. I hoped that by posting it here it would get more traffic. If the mods need to move it, then please do.

I need some advice. Last fall I paid my Marina to winterize my boat. Yesterday, I went to the Marina to pay them for my dry storage slip for another full year. After paying they informed me that I had a credit on my account. Of course I asked why I had a credit. I was told the money I paid last fall for winterization had been credited back to my account. I asked why this happened. No one knew why.

I completed the paperwork for them to do the winterization, paid them, and left them the keys to my boat. A few days later I called to follow up with the Service Manager to see if the work had been completed. I was told that it had not been done yet, but they would get to it soon. Normally, I would have followed up on this again until the work had been completed, but unfortunately last fall, my wife was diagnosed with a very serious illness and nearly died. At that point I had a lot on my plate and figured I would let them handle it.

Today we determined for sure that the winterization had never been done. The engine was full of water. The Marina remembers me paying and their computer system shows where I paid (I have the receipt). After boats are winterized, they are marked indicating that the work had been completed. I learned today that the fork lift driver asked the Service Department about my boat, because it had not been marked. He was told that it had been winterized.

We hooked it up to the muffs and let it run until the engine was up to operating temperature. There were no apparent water leaks and no water showed up in the oil, but as you might imagine, this whole thing has left me feeling very uneasy.

I have taken exceptionally good care of this boat and it upsets me that now the engine may have problems. This is my first boat. My worry is that even though there is no apparent problem with my engine now, what about in the future. I mean, that had to be a lot of unnecessary stress on the block, manifolds, hoses, risers, etc.

I really like my Marina and it is very professionally run, but the Service Department has kind of let me down. This is the second time. I have been lurking here on Club Sea Ray for the past couple years and have gotten a lot of good information from you guys. I would really appreciate your thoughts on this. Do I have anything to worry about? Has the engine been weakened or something? What would you guys do?

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

I would hire a marine surveyor or engine specialist to critically examine any systems that may be affected by not winterizing it. This should be at the marina's expense.

 

[CoralReefer]

You mention "fork lift driver"...is this a dry storage facility and the boat was kept indoors over the Winter? Since I'm in TN, I'd be curious as to which Marina. If they've let you down twice before, it's probably going to happen again. I'd move marina's to say the least. As far as legal action, not sure I'm the one to help but I'm sure there's going to be some good posts here for course of action. Hope everything works out ok for you

 

[1956olds]

Well its going to depend on the temps in the storage bldgs. for starters.How cold does it get in there and how warm during the day.Here its not a question that is inexcusable and blocks would be replaced.There the winters are generally warmer and with luck no gamage was caused.Luck aside water fresh or salt left to set in an engine will cause corrosion over time,what do the rest of you think about the speed of corrosion in the manifolds, elbows and water pump from extended layup with water in the system?Also not having the engine fogged means dry cylinders at startup.What about freeze plugs and corrosion from the insides.The other side is its fairly new and to perform work can lead to other problems so mabey if it aint broke dont fix it rule could apply.Perhaps someone should buy you an extended warranty?

 

[Singletrackmind]

You mention "fork lift driver"...is this a dry storage facility and the boat was kept indoors over the Winter? Since I'm in TN, I'd be curious as to which Marina. If they've let you down twice before, it's probably going to happen again. I'd move marina's to say the least. As far as legal action, not sure I'm the one to help but I'm sure there's going to be some good posts here for course of action. Hope everything works out ok for you

Yes, it is a dry storage facility. The boat is kept indoors, but that building gets freezing cold inside. It is just a metal building with no insulation that I know of. I probably should not say which Marina it is, although I can't blame you at all for wanting to know. I am very happy with all aspects of the Marina, but the Service Department has kind of let me down. I guess I should go farther and say that I don't really blame the technicians for anything. They probably do fine work. I may be forced to find someone else to do my service for me. A shame really, because it sure is convenient to have them handle service. I really have no plans of changing Marinas as far as storage goes, because I feel that they are the best in my area and I have a good relationship with many people there. With that said, this whole thing is frustrating and I am concerned about my boat. I just want to make sure I don't come out on the wrong end of this.

Well its going to depend on the temps in the storage bldgs. for starters.How cold does it get in there and how warm during the day.Here its not a question that is inexcusable and blocks would be replaced.There the winters are generally warmer and with luck no gamage was caused.Luck aside water fresh or salt left to set in an engine will cause corrosion over time,what do the rest of you think about the speed of corrosion in the manifolds, elbows and water pump from extended layup with water in the system?Also not having the engine fogged means dry cylinders at startup.What about freeze plugs and corrosion from the insides.The other side is its fairly new and to perform work can lead to other problems so mabey if it aint broke dont fix it rule could apply.Perhaps someone should buy you an extended warranty?

Well, like I said above, it gets freezing cold inside that building. We had some very cold periods this winter with more snow than we have seen in a long time. If I remember correctly, there were several days where it never got above freezing. I guess I could look at the weather records. The boat only has about 55 hours. I did not even think about the dry cylinders from not being fogged. You make a good point about it being fairly new.

 

[CoralReefer]

Well its going to depend on the temps in the storage bldgs. for starters.How cold does it get in there and how warm during the day.Here its not a question that is inexcusable and blocks would be replaced.There the winters are generally warmer and with luck no gamage was caused.Luck aside water fresh or salt left to set in an engine will cause corrosion over time,what do the rest of you think about the speed of corrosion in the manifolds, elbows and water pump from extended layup with water in the system?Also not having the engine fogged means dry cylinders at startup.What about freeze plugs and corrosion from the insides.The other side is its fairly new and to perform work can lead to other problems so mabey if it aint broke dont fix it rule could apply.Perhaps someone should buy you an extended warranty?

+1 on the survey and getting them to pay for an extended warranty

 

[northern]

If it is fresh water cooled and the system does not use antifreeze this to me would be an indication that if any water was left in the engine it was not very much. My experience with my jetboat with a 350 has been the heat exchanger will get damaged before the engine if you do not get all the water out. After the first winter I had to buy a heat exchanger because there was a little water left in it. Boat had 20 hours on it at the time.

 

[Iprof]

You need to talk to the service manager or the marina owner, you need to talk to them and get them to pay for a marine mechanical survey. If there is a problem you have 2 courses of action, ask the marina to fix it and if they agree ask for it to be reinspected by the marina mechanical surveyor. If they don't want to play ball with you contact your insurance company, in my policy I have coverage for a cracked block if my winterizing is done by a marina and I have a receipt. Even if you don't have this written in your policy you might be able to make a claim based on damaged cause by someone else, works the same as if someone took a knife to your top.
Don't start the boat, you want this inspected and tested before you touch it.

Ken

 

[Singletrackmind]

If it is fresh water cooled and the system does not use antifreeze this to me would be an indication that if any water was left in the engine it was not very much.

It is fresh water cooled. I guess you would call it "raw water cooled" to be more specific. No antifreeze. It is just using water from the lake.

 

[Singletrackmind]

You need to talk to the service manager or the marina owner, you need to talk to them and get them to pay for a marine mechanical survey. If there is a problem you have 2 courses of action, ask the marina to fix it and if they agree ask for it to be reinspected by the marina mechanical surveyor. If they don't want to play ball with you contact your insurance company, in my policy I have coverage for a cracked block if my winterizing is done by a marina and I have a receipt. Even if you don't have this written in your policy you might be able to make a claim based on damaged cause by someone else, works the same as if someone took a knife to your top.
Don't start the boat, you want this inspected and tested before you touch it.

Ken

It is too late as far as starting the boat goes. They put the muffs on it today and started it to check for leaks.

I briefly talked with the guy who oversees the Marina and briefly to the Marina Owner. Both are nice guys. They said they would also put the boat in the lake and run it to see if they see anything wrong.

That is interesting about the insurance. I never thought about that.

 

[techmitch]

+1 On the survey and make sure he is independent from the marina.

 

[cod]

Couple of thoughts. First, I have to say that the marina at least owned up to the oversight by voluntarily giving you the credit. They could of kept your money, kept it a secret, checked the boat which apparently has no immediate issues and you would never have known. With that said, Second, if there are no immediate problems like a cracked block, than I personally don think you will have any problems in the future. Some of the water does drain and maybe that allowed for expansion if the water did freeze. I can't think of what an engine surveyor could do to find any potential damage without disassembly. If your familiar with engines look to see if the freeze out plugs are set properly and that one did not get pushed outward. The fact of the water laying in the engine all winter is no different than it laying in there all summer IMO. In the summer, it is probably worse as you keep replacing the water with new water with fresh oxygen, which is what is needed to create corrosion. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. As far as the dry start up, sure it is definately better to have the engine fogged and the cylinders coated with oil, but starting the engine did not cause excessive wear on the parts IMO. Maybe the engine life was reduced by 10 hours, who knows. Don't over think it... take it for a good run, and if nothing starts leaking, I'd say your good to go. Have an understanding with the marina that if a problem does occur , they need to make it right.

The old saying" 95% of the things you worry about never happen, the other 5% you can't do anything about, so stop worrying and go boating.....

 

[OldSkool]

It looks like your marina is not the only marina to miss a service on a boat this season. Check out the attached thread.

http://clubsearay.com/showthread.ph...traffic-under-Winterizing?highlight=winterize
There are many comment there concerning this matter.

As I stated in that thread, I missed one drain plug on my 305 (5L) and found the freeze plug in the bilge the next spring. The engine was fine thanks to those plugs. I never missed the drain plugs again.

 

[dicor]

You were very lucky this time. I'd be very wary of their service department in the future. I had a previous boat in dry stack and loved it however it needs to be stored correctly the stern must be lower than the bow and the plug must be removed for drainage. If not you can be looking at stringer & transom damage down the road, big bucks. Now this is basic stuff for a Marina about as basic as winterizing a boat when paid to, if you know what I mean. I would check how it's stacked if I were you.

 

[Presentation]

About the cylinders being dry do to the engine not being fogged, please do not sweat this one.


You have a wet sump. The benefits of fogging an engine with a wet sump are minor. Combine this with indoor storage and one can make the case that it does more harm than good.

You have a carburetor so the argument at least can be made.

As soon as you jump over to fuel injection the “more harm than good” debate becomes difficult to defend fogging.

Forum member Scott is one of the very few people on this board who have posted about the correct way to fog a wet sump fuel injected engine. No do it yourself system even exists that we could find. He made his system himself and posted photos. The correct process is complex.

I do not fog my engines.

 

[midway]

I store my boat on the trailer in my back yard, it is covered with a vented tarp. I boat in saltwater and flush when I pull it out for 15 to 20 minutes and use Saltaway on this engine, the old boat only got the flush for the 17 years I had it. I never drain the block through the summer and only drain it in the winter when freeze is coming. If your engine stayed full of water I think you would see the damage from what you say about the weather, those long spells below freezing would do it. I would say that no water in oil and no external water leaks you are good. I never fog my engine either so don't sweat the dry start either. I would get something in writhing from them to cover you at least through this boating season as a just in case. I really don't think that you will have a problem later if there is not one now. The suggestion of checking the freeze plugs is probably a good one, if there was freezing there is a very good possibility that at least one of them would be pushed out some and this you could see and fix now. Once again I don't think you will find anything.

 

[billnpat]

I FEEL YOUR PAIN AS AN ALSO FIRST TIME BOAT OWNER:smt009

I will never let the marina store, winterize, my boat ever again...

 

[dicor]

He's lucky he live in Tennessee!

View attachment 18341

 

[jbw641]

I have found that "if you want something done right,do it yourself" usually works best for me. Get out your service manual, it will show you what needs to be done and it isn't that difficult to do on a small boat. You will save the cost of the winterizing and you will know it was done right as well as done. Only takes me about 1/2hr.to do mine.

 

[Presentation]

I’m also a believer in ‘do-it-yourself’ as much as I reasonably can.

Not so sure on the ½ hour comment. I must be slow. It took me 4 days.

I guess if you had everything at the ready and you are only running, draining and adding pink to the engines and you do not include picking up your mess you could get one done in ½ hour.

Over 4 days I:

Stabalized fuel, removed cockpit carpet to have cleaned, changed oil + oil filter + water separating filter x 3 engines, cleaned flame arrestors x 3 engines, changed generator impeller, winterized generator, cleaned strainer x 2, cleaned air conditioning air filter, removed engine compartment table holder, winterized A/C system + fresh water system, cleaned fresh water filter, tune up (spark plugs, rotor, cap, fuel filters x 2 main engines) had boat pulled, acid wash + cleaned hull, winterized main engines, cleaned cockpit, changed drive fluid x 2 drives, changed main engine impeller x 2 main engines, touched up outdrive paint, changed anodes, tested bilge pumps, cleaned inside of shower sump box, recharged holding tank vent filter, changed duck valves, changed head seal gasket, checked generator belts, reinstalled engine compartment table holder.

I do all the little things. Just one example, I remove the line between the engine and hot water heater, rinse the line with fresh water, blow out the water with air from my mouth then pour pink into one end until pink comes out the other side.