Main breaker

[Overvolted]

Need some help identifying this breaker. It is my main breaker and it is getting weak after almost 40 years. I have not seen a breaker like this. Hoping someone can tell me what type it is and where I can get a replacement.

 

[hughespat57]

They are a Carling/Airpax type magnetic/hydraulic breaker.
It is a two pole
The third position is SP special looks like a trip coil at 65v. An early version at GFI it trips if you have reverse polarity. The test switch trips the breaker correct?

iegf666-30298-344-v is the part number

May be hard to find with that feature.

 

[hughespat57]

Maybe lucky

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/AIRPAX/IEGF666-30298-344-V?qs=lDMevKbHVys5R9VrF3xZAw%3D%3D

Two in stock
Dont go by picture
Look at data sheet

 

[Overvolted]

The test switch does not trip the breaker, it only illuminates the light.

 

[Skybolt]

The test switch does not trip the breaker, it only illuminates the light.

By the looks of your first pic. It looks to be wired incorrectly. Please post a better shot of the wiring to that breaker. But to me it looks like the hot and ground both ends of the breaker are swapped. Can't be sure though.

EDIT: That breaker should have a black wire on the first breaker and a white wire on the second. The third to the right, should have the green bonding wire on it.

 

[hughespat57]

Ok
Still that’s what it’s for prevents you from ignoring the light and using the AC appliances.

 

[hughespat57]

By the looks of your first pic. It looks to be wired incorrectly. Please post a better shot of the wiring to that breaker. But to me it looks like the hot and ground both ends of the breaker are swapped. Can't be sure though.

EDIT: That breaker should have a black wire on the first breaker and a white wire on the second. The third to the right, should have the green bonding wire on it.

No it right for this old use case.
Hot then Neutral
The third block is a trip coil.

So one connection is ground and one is Neutral.
Normally that would be zero volts difference.
But if H and N are reversed at the dock one side is ground and the other is now 120v. Coil trips power off.

 

[Skybolt]

No it right for this old use case.
Hot then Neutral
The third block is a trip coil.

So one connection is ground and one is Neutral.
Normally that would be zero volts difference.
But if H and N are reversed at the dock one side is ground and the other is now 120v. Coil trips power off.

Yes, but that doesn't look like that is how it is connected. I get how it should be, the breakers are labeled. But if you look at the right wire, the one that should be the ground, it looks to be black or hot.

In the first pic the breakers are labeled as such:

30A : 30A : 65V or the coil trip.
Black: White: Green <-- This is how it should be wired.

Like I said, I could be seeing the wire color incorrectly and why I asked for a better pic. The OP is having an issue and that may be it.

 

[Overvolted]

Yes, but that doesn't look like that is how it is connected. I get how it should be, the breakers are labeled. But if you look at the right wire, the one that should be the ground, it looks to be black or hot. In the first pic the breakers are labeled as such: 30A : 30A : 65V or the coil trip. Black: White: Green <-- This is how it should be wired. Like I said, I could be seeing the wire color incorrectly and why I asked for a better pic. The OP is having an issue and that may be it.

I will be at the boat tomorrow and get a better picture with the panel upright in its installed position. I had to rotate it a bit to get those pictures.

 

[Overvolted]

The issue I'm seeing is just a random trip of the main breaker. There is no rhyme or reason to it as to when it trips and I can reset it and it will be trouble free the rest of the time. My thought is that the boat was used as a floating condo for a while and now that we are using it a lot it is showing its age. This has been how it has gone for a few other systems on the boat as well. Also my shore power connection was faulty and tripping the main breaker.We didn't see it until we started using it a lot. I replaced the connection and have eliminated that fault.

 

[ttmott]

Hmmm, quite possibly there is a device or appliance on the boat that is leaking current to ground and the breaker is doing it's job????

 

[Overvolted]

How would I test for that? I keep a Field Piece DVM on the boat.

 

[hughespat57]

@ttmott I doubt it's possible as these where simple voltage sensing arrangement not leakage level current devices.

@Overvolted ttmott knows these theories well, so this is for your issue.

First it is almost impossible for "leakage" current to be great enough AND voltage difference at the same time. This coil would need around 50 to 100ma current at 65 volt +/- 10%.
Leakage could get to those currents if bad enough but is very unlikely to hit a 65v differential between ground and neutral.

Ground fault circuit interrupter or residual current device (GFCI/RCD) senses any mismatch in current coming in the Hot wire and the returning on the Neutral. Any "missing" current must be returning on the Ground wire. As little as 5ma will trip a GFCI; RCD are a little more forgiving needed about 30ma to trip.

GFCI protect you from shock when touch an appliance or other grounded metal while say standing in some water.

RCD will protect as well but is primarily for on the dock or in the water near a boat. A boat that has leakage can cause the water to be electrically charged. This has lead to "drownings" that in fact were electricity paralyzing the swimmer, that then drowns.
People should never swim around boats in a marina, but divers work on bottoms and props etc. and people can fall in.

Finally your nuisance trips could be the breaker is old and has become over sensitive. But before you go thru the trouble and cost to replace in consider this.

30A is not a lot of power for a boat. Its 125 x 30 = 3,750 watts.
If you have a water heater, usually 1,500 watt.
Your stove again 1,500 watt.
Air Conditioner? about 1,250 watt running, easily 2 or 3 times that surge on start up.
Battery Charger 300-500 watt

So you may not realize the battery charger is running, water heater is running when the A/C trys to start, and trip goes the breaker. Throw in any microwave or cooking and it is easy to go over 30A.

 

[Overvolted]

@ttmott I doubt it's possible as these where simple voltage sensing arrangement not leakage level current devices.

@Overvolted ttmott knows these theories well, so this is for your issue.

First it is almost impossible for "leakage" current to be great enough AND voltage difference at the same time. This coil would need around 50 to 100ma current at 65 volt +/- 10%.
Leakage could get to those currents if bad enough but is very unlikely to hit a 65v differential between ground and neutral.

Ground fault circuit interrupter or residual current device (GFCI/RCD) senses any mismatch in current coming in the Hot wire and the returning on the Neutral. Any "missing" current must be returning on the Ground wire. As little as 5ma will trip a GFCI; RCD are a little more forgiving needed about 30ma to trip.

GFCI protect you from shock when touch an appliance or other grounded metal while say standing in some water.

RCD will protect as well but is primarily for on the dock or in the water near a boat. A boat that has leakage can cause the water to be electrically charged. This has lead to "drownings" that in fact were electricity paralyzing the swimmer, that then drowns.
People should never swim around boats in a marina, but divers work on bottoms and props etc. and people can fall in.

Finally your nuisance trips could be the breaker is old and has become over sensitive. But before you go thru the trouble and cost to replace in consider this.

30A is not a lot of power for a boat. Its 125 x 30 = 3,750 watts.
If you have a water heater, usually 1,500 watt.
Your stove again 1,500 watt.
Air Conditioner? about 1,250 watt running, easily 2 or 3 times that surge on start up.
Battery Charger 300-500 watt

So you may not realize the battery charger is running, water heater is running when the A/C trys to start, and trip goes the breaker. Throw in any microwave or cooking and it is easy to go over 30A.

This makes sense. We usually run the fridge, battery charger, a/c, outlets and a cook top so we may be maxing out an old breaker. I'm heading to the marina in about an hour to do some maintenance and will check the wattage and amperage of our appliances. It may be as simple as turning off the the battery charger and fridge when cooking and running the a/c. I don't think my DVM will be able to measure bleed current, it is good but not great.

I know all to well the dangers of being in the water at the marina. My friends houseboat before he bought it was responsible for killing two people due to bad wiring. He had the boat rewired from bow to stern after he bought it. I see people swimming at the marina and it scares me.

 

[Overvolted]

So I got to the boat to change out shore power switch and work on generator. When I looked in the panel the main was tripped so I reset it and it stayed on. When we left it last Monday the only breaker I left on was for the battery charger. Charger breaker was not tripped. I am going to look into my charger as the source of my issue. The only wild card is the marina power as they are always having some kind of problem.

 

[ttmott]

I'd still measure the potential on the ground. It's not unreasonable to have a 65 volt fault to ground.

 

[Skybolt]

Also do you still have the old ProMariner/Lewmar battery cooker(charger)? That could be giving you an issue as well as the leakage @ttmott is referring too.

 

[Overvolted]

I'd still measure the potential on the ground. It's not unreasonable to have a 65 volt fault to ground.

Is there a procedure I can use with my dvm or do I need a certain type of meter?

 

[Overvolted]

Also do you still have the old ProMariner/Lewmar battery cooker(charger)? That could be giving you an issue as well as the leakage @ttmott is referring too.

I do not have this type of charger.

 

[ttmott]

Is there a procedure I can use with my dvm or do I need a certain type of meter?

Measure voltage between the Hot and Ground and the Neutral and Ground.
If there is leakage the 120 volt nominal voltage (differential) between Hot and Ground will be less than 120 volts and show a corresponding increase in voltage between the neutral and ground.
Start the testing will all the boats devices turned off and get a baseline. Then start turning things back on taking measurements at each step. The more load the more current on the neutral. There should always be a differential of 120 volts between the hot and ground in a healthy electrical system. With everything off there should be a very low voltage between the neutral and ground.
As an FYI the typical culprits that leak to ground are AC compressors, Refrigeration compressors, and water heaters. The battery charger could also.

Assuming your boat doesn't have an inverter and generator is switched out of the system the neutral and ground conductors are tied together at the marina's main power panel at the utility source. The length and resistance of those conductors will support the differential testing at your boat. Other boats on the same circuit can mask the testing results and the reason for the baseline test.