"LOST ENGINE COM" Now what??? Already "unplugged and re-plugged" EVERYTHING!

[RichardS]

Haven't had a chance to take the boat out for a week or so. Finally got the time to get to the boat and plan an early morning ride.

Got up and 6AM and the wife and I had our morning coffee, commented on how nicely the tide was coming in and how still the water looked, and were overall quite thrilled to be getting out for our long-awaited ride across the bay.

Went out and took off the covers (I NEVER leave the covers off when the boat is not in use) and unplugged the shore power line we use to keep the batteries at 100% charge.

Lifted the engine hatch to do my "pre-flight check". I always check fluids, check for excess water in the bilge, look for any issues that don't look quite right, all before turning the key.

Everything looked hunky-dory.

Activated the bilge blowers and lowered the hatch.

Turned the ignition key.

N.O.T.H.I.N.G.

Not a click. Not a click-click-click. Not a bizzzzzzzzz-bzzzzzzzzzzz.

Nothing. Nada. Zip.

Yes, I could hear the fuel pump activate, but not one sound from the starter.

And ya know those three smartcraft symbols that come up first that say BAT, TMP, PSI and an "OK" comes up under each one?

I got a "Bell" shaped icon with an "!" in each one.

Then, the message "LOST ENGINE COM".

Checked here on the forum, checked the rest of the internet, and got the same advice over and over....."Unplug cables and plug them back in again". So that's what I did. Every single one I could find, from the 14 pin main harness to every single relay and every single fuse and every single connector in the engine bay and at the helm.

NO CHANGE.

Tried disconnecting the batteries (which were fully charged) and reconnecting them.

NO CHANGE.

Unplugged the Navico gateway, plugged it back in, no change. FWIW, the Gateway has a green power light, solid, and the orange NAV light is flashing, as it should, when the Northstar GPS is powered on. The red CAN light is NOT lit, or flashing, indicating it is NOT talking to the engine at all.

The dealer, to his credit, on a VERY busy saturday, sent a knowledgeable, experienced mechanic down to my house to try to correct the problem. He was there 6 hours, checking everything he could check, and had zero luck. (Did many of the same things I had tried, no luck, as I said.) In fairness to him, he really isn't knowledgeable about Smartcraft, but was doing his best with the little he knows about it. Checked all the connectors and made sure everything was clean and tight. Stuff like that.

He did jump the starter and the engine successfully started and ran until we shut it down. (a couple minutes). I was hoping it would somehow "kickstart" the communications but no such luck. I get nothing on any of the gauges. Nothing at all.

He finally went home and has promised to come back this week, but I don't think he knows what to do next, and I am imploring you guys to suggest what may be wrong and what to do to troubleshoot this situation.


PLEASE guys. This has me as upset as I can be. I love my boat. But the damn thing won't even turn over until we clear up this COM error.

Ideas and suggestions VERY VERY much appreciated!!!

 

[radiojon]

At the risk of sounding like an ass, have you checked to make 100% sure that it didn't get shifted into gear somehow? On my 320, I once started panicking because my starboard engine wouldn't re-fire after a few hours at anchor. Checked everything and it still wouldn't even try to turn over ... completely silent. Then I checked the gearshifts and found that one was just slightly out of the "click" position for neutral. Jiggled it into place, tried again, and it fired right up.

I don't think the SmartCraft directly controls any of the engine functions; I always thought it was mostly a fancy monitoring system. Thus, the instrumentation really shouldn't be the problem. I get the "Lost Engine Com" message every time the engine breakers are on, but the engine isn't.

Hope it's that simple. Lord knows I've (thankfully!) had a couple of instances where it seemed like something major was at fault, but it turned out to be something very simple (and cheap!). Even once had a smaller runabout that I couldn't get to start after some time at anchor. I was just about to call for the tow when I noticed one of the small kids had pulled out the engine kill switch accidentally.

Good luck!

- Mark

 

[paulswagelock]

I have received that error a few times over the years. But as mentioned above, the boat would start and run, I just didn't have displays. Each time a power reboot cleared it up.
you might have 2 issues to chase down, maybe related.

 

[RichardS]

Mark, you certainly could never sound like an ass for trying to help!!! And yes, it DOES act like the boat isn't in neutral. Except for the "Lost Engine Com" message, that's EXACTLY what it seems like. But it IS in neutral and the tech who came to work on the boat verified the neutral switch is operative, not defective.

But here's another thing.....if the boat wasn't in neutral, and you turned the key, it would be silent, BUT, the gauges would all activate. The gas guage, for example, would go to the 1/2 mark, or whatever amount of gas is in the tank. NONE of the gauges come alive when the key is turned as they would if the boat were acting normally but not starting because it wasn't in neutral, or the kill switch was "off" for some reason. (Another thing we verified is operational.)

So the system is definitely not communicating with the engine. And as I mentioned, when this situation has happened to others, a disconnect and reconnect of the main engine harness that is at the top of the engine under the cover, the 14 pin twist-lock thing, has fixed the problem. For others. Not for me. Others have also been successful disconnecting the batteries. Didn't work for me. Some have gotten this message and were successful in fixing it by disconnecting the Smartcraft tach (or whatever gauge their generation of Smartcraft connects to), and then reconnecting it. Not for me. I sure wish I could be so lucky as to fix it by re-booting it the way we fix our cable box when it does things like this.....unplugging it for 5 minutes and plugging it back in. But while that method has indeed worked for others, NOT for me, and I have now unplugged and re-plugged EVERYTHING that there is to unplug that I could find. And the tech verified operationality of every circuit and every breaker and every relay he could.

One thing I think is VERY VERY important is that every other person who has gotten this COM error has been able to start their boat just fine, but didn't have any gauges working. This is the only case I have found where the boat won't start. So, maybe it is two separate problems that happened simultaneously and somehow interface.

Again I think it's important to note that the Smartcraft gauge is successfully talking to the Navico gateway and through to the chartplotter, at least it seems so as evidenced by the correct light (NAV) flashing on the gateway, but is NOT communicating with the engine, as evidenced by the light for that function (CAN) remaining dark.

I hope some of you guys will continue to consider my issue and throw some suggestions/thoughts/ideas my way. I would deeply, deeply appreciate ANY thoughts you care to offer!

 

[RichardS]

I get the "Lost Engine Com" message every time the engine breakers are on, but the engine isn't.

- Mark

Mark......could you please elaborate on that? I use a shore power cable to keep my batteries charged. I had it connected before we tried to start the boat. I disconnected it of course before I attempted to start it, but I can't swear to whether I turned off the breakers for "Main" and "Battery Charger" which would have been turned on with the shore power plugged in. Maybe I did, Maybe I didn't. Don't remember now. But is that the situation you're describing or something else? I'd really appreciate any details you can add as to when you've gotten the same message. Thanks in advance!!

 

[paulswagelock]

Based on the year, I assume you have the DTS system.
These systems are hugely dependent on battery strength. Any chance you have a bad battery? These require a 1000 MCA battery in good condition or flaky things happen.

Just throwing ideas out there.

 

[RichardS]

Based on the year, I assume you have the DTS system.
These systems are hugely dependent on battery strength. Any chance you have a bad battery? These require a 1000 MCA battery in good condition or flaky things happen.

Just throwing ideas out there.

Paul,
Yes, it is a DTS boat. And when I first got it, the dealer had not gotten the shore power cord from the original owner. (He had put it in the boat's cooler but left it in his garage when the boat was taken on consignment to the dealer's lot.)
I got the cooler and power cord a few weeks later, after the manifolds and risers job was done. So it was only recently I began using it. Although the boat has a 30 amp receptacle, my electrician had installed only a typical 15AMP 110 V 3 pronger at my dock, so I used the adapter that the previous owner had connected to the power cord (he must have had the same setup) when plugging in the boat for battery maintenance.
FWIW, before getting the cord, I noticed at idle the boat only showed 11.5-12.5 volts at idle, but from what I understand that's normal, since at 650RPM the engine doesn't generate enough voltage to maintain a full charge, and that only happens at cruise. (If I am wrong please correct me.)
Anyway, the batteries aren't brand new. I believe they are in their second, possibly third season.
BUT.......they WERE plugged into the shore power and with my on-board charger they showed a full charge. (Or more appropriately the green lights were lit that would indicate they were fully charged. The red "charging" lights come on when I do things like life the engine hatch, etc, but after several minutes they go back to green again.

Is it possible that even though the batteries appear to be taking a full charge they may still be a problem? I do remember that a couple times, when listening to the radio while cleaning the boat, with the battery switch on "1" (prior to having the shore power cord), the boat would not start afterwards unless I switched over the both batteries. Thirty minutes of radio listening (nothing else, no fresh water pump or refrigerator running, just the radio) would drain battery 1 down to a point where the starter would just "click". I would think it would hold more juice for longer times, but that's what would happen. I never, of course, used both batteries to listen to music with the engine off, for fear it wouldn't have the power to start the engine when I was ready to go out.

Don't know if this is salient information or not, just throwing out everything I can here.

One more thing.......we did have a power failure at the house during a storm, while the boat was plugged in. I was at our year-round home and had left it plugged in, as I said, to keep the batteries at full charge. Could something have happened as a result? When we got to the house the power was back on, and it appears it was only off for a couple hours. Neighbors tell me there was a lot of lightening as well, if that matters.

Guys, please, if you have any thoughts on this, no matter how far-out you think they may be, or how "obvious" you think they are, PLEASE, float them anyway! I am so frustrated by this. It's one thing, as I told my wife, when you have a "mechanical" problem, like we did with the heat issue. I knew that would get fixed eventually because there are only so many components to a cooling system and if you address them all, you're going to land on the right one. (Or in my case, the right ONES, plural, since it was a combination of small issues adding up to the larger one.)

But with a computer related issue, ESPECIALLY when dealers and researching "google" keeps saying "unplug things and plug them back in....that usually works", I feel like hitting my head against a wall. "unplug cables and plug them in again" does NOT seem like a "fix" to me! Even if it DID work (and don't get me wrong, I'd be thrilled with ANYTHING that would work right now) who is to say the same situation won't happen an hour later, or a day later, or the next time I shut the engine down out on the water?

I can't even trim the outdrive up! How the heck am I going to even get my boat somewhere where it can be pulled out of the water if that's what needs to happen? This is MADDENING!

(Guys, I apologize for the rant. It just seems like things were SO much easier when my boats had cables instead of digital throttle and carbs instead of fuel injection and not a single computer ANYWHERE on the boat. They RAN. Maybe not as well sometimes, but they RAN and when they didn't, the fix was usually VERY easy to see, and VERY easy to do! Am I wrong? Do any of you long for the good old days when things weren't so damn complicated???)

 

[paulswagelock]

I would not rule out the batteries, but you can check it by putting the switch on both and leaving it plugged in to shore power. I do not think that will be your issue though.

Another item, did you check the engine breaker on the top front of the engine to verify it is not tripped? I tripped mine once when connecting batteries and IIRC I received the comm error until I reset the breaker. It is either the big red button breaker, or the button/yellow reset flag type.

 

[RichardS]

Paul, yes, did check the breaker up on top you're referring to. And when the tech arrived he checked it as well. Checked the other "big breaker with a red button" (whatever that does) on the left side too.

I did try everything with the shore power connected and the switch set to "Both" so I'd know I was getting full power to the boat, and you're right, made no difference. All the things we unplugged and re-plugged, from the main harness to everything else, was clean, no corrosion, no bent pins, etc.

 

[Mike Blake]

Fully attempt to charge the batteries then have a draw test done to them. That's the proper way to do it.

 

[paulswagelock]

Did the tech check continuity across the breakers to make sure they were ok or just press and reset? At this point I would make sure to actually test that the breaker is working properly. there were a bad bunch of breakers recalled / tech bulletin at one point around your boat's era.

 

[RichardS]

Fully attempt to charge the batteries then have a draw test done to them. That's the proper way to do it.

My on board battery charger went "green" on both batteries, which is all I had to draw the conclusion they were both fully charged. I know the tech did NOT do a draw test. I'll ask about that, great suggestion.

Did the tech check continuity across the breakers to make sure they were ok or just press and reset? At this point I would make sure to actually test that the breaker is working properly. there were a bad bunch of breakers recalled / tech bulletin at one point around your boat's era.

Yes, sorry Paul,I should have pointed out that the tech DID in fact use a continuity tester on that breaker and everywhere else he checked. I watched him do it myself. That was one of my concerns too......that the breaker would "act" ok but in reality be faulty. But it checked out ok.

I'm at a real loss here......don't know what to check next and more disconcerting is I don't think the dealership knows what to check next either. It's my hope that they will have called their support people at Mercury for advice on how to proceed. If you guys have any ideas come to mind, anything at all, please, continue to share them. I am really at my wit's end. And of course, when this is resolved (I refuse to say "if"), I will share the outcome and any particulars so the next "victim" will have the benefit of whatever insight this experience gives us.

 

[paulswagelock]

You can call Mercruiser tech support and they will provide guidance / insight to you directly. Might not hurt to get them involved first hand. I have used them before on some issues.

 

[RichardS]

You can call Mercruiser tech support and they will provide guidance / insight to you directly. Might not hurt to get them involved first hand. I have used them before on some issues.

Took your advice and called them. They were very helpful. The tech I spoke with told me that this is NOT a "user-friendly fix" and that it is NOT difficult, but requires a skilled tech with the loaded mercury software diagnostic laptop, so the resistors can be checked at both ends and the "CAN-T" error can be isolated and resolved.

I just sent an email to my dealer explaining all this...the Mercury Tech tells me it is imperative they call him BEFORE he leaves the shop so he can instruct him as to what to bring with him to resolve the issue once it's isolated.

The Mercury Tech, and I quote, tells me that "99.999999% of the time they can walk an experienced tech with the right equipment through the diagnosis and repair very quickly in a situation like this".


I sure hope he's right about MY boat!!

 

[420]

Hopefully you didn't take a lightning strike or back feed from one nearby... I lost the ecm's on my center console a few years back from a nearby lightening strike (2 of the 3 motor's got blown). It doesn't take much to blow them up, only a few Amps of power. The lightening hit a chimney nearby, traveled into the electrical system that was connected to my power cord/ pedestal, and poof. Deader than a doorbell. It was an insurance claim...

 

[RichardS]

Hopefully you didn't take a lightning strike or back feed from one nearby... I lost a mercury smart craft on my center console a few years back from a nearby lightening strike (2 of the 3 motor's smart crafts got blown). It doesn't take much to blow them up, only a few Amps of power. The lightening hit a chimney nearby, traveled into the electrical system that was connected to my power cord/ pedestal, and poof. Deader than a doorbell. It was an insurance claim...

THAT is extremely useful intel, thanks for sharing your experience! I am afraid my situation could be the same. We had a storm, with a lot of lightening, while the boat was plugged into shorepower and this was the first time I tried to start it since that storm.

I hope BoatUS is reasonable and realistic about such claims. It seems like they would be hard to prove with certainty, although I don't know how else it could have happened, if that's what did happen. Hopefully I'll know soon!

 

[BleednBlue]

...FWIW, before getting the cord, I noticed at idle the boat only showed 11.5-12.5 volts at idle, but from what I understand that's normal, since at 650RPM the engine doesn't generate enough voltage to maintain a full charge, and that only happens at cruise. (If I am wrong please correct me.)...

My boat (same as yours but a 2007) shows 12.5 volts while the engine is NOT on. As soon as it fires up (in idle) the smartcraft gauge shows 13.5 volts. Could it be an alternator? Curious, have you tried a "Master Reset" on the Smartcraft gauge?

 

[RichardS]

My boat (same as yours but a 2007) shows 12.5 volts while the engine is NOT on. As soon as it fires up (in idle) the smartcraft gauge shows 13.5 volts. Could it be an alternator? Curious, have you tried a "Master Reset" on the Smartcraft gauge?

Don't think it's the alternator....the smartcraft system isn't talking to the engine and vice-versa. As for the master reset...yes, I did that, and I wish I didn't! Now the display can't identify the engine as it should (SURPRISE! It isn't TALKING to the engine! What the heck was I THINKING doing a master reset???) So now I have compounded the problem and according to Mercury the only fix for that issue is the mercury laptop hooked in and the system being told what engine is there.

 

[RichardS]

Well.......problem identified!

It was the ECM.

Apparently the lightning storm a few days ago took out the ECM and the transducer.

The tech arrived today with some parts, including a used ECM to try out, and with the replacement ECM installed the boat started immediately. We then discovered the transducer had also been affected, because it is working sporadically.

BoatUS is insisting the boat gets pulled for a complete hull check and all electronics checked out. So it won't be a quick trip from the tech to replace the bad parts.

MORE lost boating season! But at least we now know what the problem is!!

 

[BleednBlue]

Wow, I'm surprised this is not a more common problem. If you replace the transducer can you post the current part number? I have Marine Max number but cannot find the manufacturer number.