Looking into a 460DA ...

[Alex D]

Now that our trusty 340DA is being totaled we are thinking about what we want to buy to replace her, the 410DA has always been my favorite and I have followed all threads here. there are however a number of reasonable 460DA out there for sale and we are thinking ...

Not many threads here to find info about the 460DA.

Can owners and experts (Frank!) please chime in here and advise me about the460DA?

Thank you!:thumbsup:

 

[tobnpr]

Must be a big lake you boat on- is there diesel fuel easily available?

 

[Jaws]

First, decide what your budget is because the prices of 460 'Dancers will vary widely.

1) Do you want the hardtop or radar arch/soft top?
2) Which motors? CAT (more than one), Cummins (more than one), or Volvo?
3) Cored sides or not?
4) Cherry or maple "veneer" on the cabinets?
5) have the electronics been updated?
6) What year(s) are you considering?
7) Hours?; fresh water, salt water?
8) certain maintenance questions should be asked!!

Alex, let me know if you have specific questions because I've done the research,...happy to help. It's a great boat but I'll give you any negative aspects too.

James

 

[Alex D]

Must be a big lake you boat on- is there diesel fuel easily available?

Not that big, but deep.

About 22,000 acres with 500 miles of shoreline.

My 340 was actually one of the smaller ones ... mostly 40 footers and a 500DA too. We get diesel regularly delivered.

 

[Alex D]

First, decide what your budget is because the prices of 460 'Dancers will vary widely.

1) Do you want the hardtop or radar arch/soft top?
2) Which motors? CAT (more than one), Cummins (more than one), or Volvo?
3) Cored sides or not?
4) Cherry or maple "veneer" on the cabinets?
5) have the electronics been updated?
6) What year(s) are you considering?
7) Hours?; fresh water, salt water?
8) certain maintenance questions should be asked!!

Alex, let me know if you have specific questions because I've done the research,...happy to help. It's a great boat but I'll give you any negative aspects too.

James

Thank you James!! We have been looking at some bottom price 460DAs ... they look quite good from pictures and specs so far ... one's a 2000 with hard top and ones a one owner fresh water 1999 with 760 hours, but has the white interior.

Some thoughts to your very good points:
1. Doesn't matter
2. Most likely cummins
3. prolly cored sides since we are looking into a 1999 to 2000
4. Doesn't matter if the price is right. Cherry preferred, but the white stuff is okay if the price is right.
5. Electronics don't matter on our lake
6. 1999 or 2000
7. 700 to 900 fresh and saltwater

We use the boat more like a condo on the lake. 99% we are at anchor in a cove for the weekend. TO give you an indea. We ran our 340 for 4 seasons and put only 110 hours on her. The genny runs all the time though. Grnated, one year was a bust for us because our son was in his second year and boating was difficult. Realistically we run her for about 30-40 hours a year.

 

[Jaws]

Alex,

1999 was the first year for the 460DA. It was also the last year for its predecessor, the 450DA which would be another excellent choice. Both vessels give you lots of room, excellent sea-keeping ability. The 450DA will be a touch faster because the 460DA is heavier, especially with the hardtop and hydraulic platform options. But the 460 is beamier and gives a slightly bigger feel to it. My friend runs a '99 450DA (3126) so I know that boat as well.

If you are looking at a 1999 or 2000 model then it will be a soft top. Consider the newer hard top for climate control and future resale.

Cummins is probably the most popular of the powerplants on the 460DA, but least powerful. The mechanical version is very reliable and was used through 2002. In '03 the CE variant gave a bit more horsepower but had a few initial teething problems. The 3126B CAT pushed the power envelope quite a bit and Sea Ray instead ended up putting the 3208 motor in quite a few 460DA models until 2001, I believe. Volvo motors are harder to find but generally more powerful; perhaps service might be an issue in your area?

All 460DA hull sides were balsa cored until hull #517 in the 2001 model year. (Sea Ray started over with the numbers at #501 each year in those days it seems.) After that it was a "balsa-delete". But it doesn't appear to be a big issue with 460s unless there was a poorly bedded port light or stanchion. Look for moisture just below the aft edge of the intakes on the sides. All 460DA (and most larger S.R. boats) have a bit of core in the bottom and transom. Two, 2mm to be exact. This is used for sound deadening among other purposes and is nothing to be avoided. Early 1999 models however did not have solid fiberglass in the thru-hull areas i.e. strainers, transducers, etc. Late 1999 and on, this was corrected.

Lots has been written about the cherry vs. maple thing. Really, who cares as long as the boat works? We like our maple because it lightens the interior. The cherry remained similar over the years but the maple was less glossy later on ('02).

I agree with your assessment of the electronics. I would rather buy a boat for less and upgrade it later when more money becomes available than to pay a premium because someone upgraded two years ago and it will be old electronics in another year or two.

Freshwater boats if maintained should fetch a premium. They are in storage (not used) for much of their lives so that could be a good thing or bad. Get a good survey and mechanical inspection with the diesel mechanic onboard for the sea trial.

Options that are nice to have are the bow thruster, maybe a hydraulic platform in your situation. The inside TV full cabinet is another nice touch. We just added this in the past few weeks to update our boat.

Don't forget, there will be a lot of neglected boats out there despite what the ads tell you about their pampering. Good luck. They are great boats along with the 450DA.

James

 

[Alex D]

Thank you James. This is excellent information and very helpful. I don't know much about the 460DA and it is a quite different "beast" than the smaller boats and the 410DA we are also thinking about.
Any help or additions here are very welcome. PM too if you like.

Thanks again!

 

[Jaws]

Alex,

Decide first if you like the Sundancer floorplan. It sounds like it is best for your situation so you may not want an express 400/410 or even 510.

I really like the 420/440DA model. You get the same motors as the 460DA while hauling less weight. Good engine access with the motorized hatch and they perform very well.

But you can feel the difference in living space. If you anchor out a lot and don't need the speed capabilities then go bigger, IMHO, and enjoy the extra real estate. Both would be excellent choices as would a late model 450DA.

James

 

[fwebster]

I would avoid the lower priced 460's, even though that is where we all tend to focus. The reasons are that the cheaper boats are either very early or are soft tops boats which have always sold at a significant discount to and have much lower demand than the hard top versions.........means you can't sell them easily when/if you need to.

The first couple of years, the hardtop, hydraulic platform and bow thruster were all options and added right at $100K to the retail cost of thew boat. That same (almost) differential follows the used market at well which is why some 460's seem cheap and others seem high within a year.

The 46 is a great boat and handles well and easily. I've owned a 450DA since '97 and keep up a 2001 460DA for a friend who cannot use it now and there are 2 pretty significant differences between the boats........450 has a superb engine room for a do-it-yourselfer; the 460 engine space is an after thought.....tough access to lots of stuff and cramped for such a large boat. The 460Da also has a significant bow rise when approaching planing speeds. You can be literally blind for several seconds. This may not be an issue for some folks in some locations, but where we are, it means you run at a fast idle to completely open water, because of tourist and rental boat traffic (assume they have no clue, because most don't).

I can't get too excited about interior colors since that one is a personal preference. The Cherry is warmer feeling, but tends to make the cabin a tad dark.......the 460DA I mentioned above is cherry and has had all the interior halogen 12V lights replaced with Cantilupi fixtures to increase lighting from 10W to 20W per fixture, and it helped with the "cave" feeling. The maple interior is much lighter and open feeling, but looks a little artificial or plastic since the printed design is too perfect. But, is is a personal choice.....

Early 460DA's that were neglected may have some moisture in the coring around the side vents....in some cases, the entire hull sides were saturated which is a hard fix. The reason is that Sea Ray positioned the hull vent in the hull side, not in the deck cap like on the 450DA. The hull vent hole is sawed into the hull and the vent installed with bedding so any break in the bedding allows rainwater running off the deck and rub rail to get into the cored side. If I bought a 460, the first thing I would do is to pull the side vents off and rebed them.

Engines: The mechanical 6CTA is my favorite for this particular boat. Cat 3208's are also excellent. The weight of the 460 and a 450+ hp engine is a good combination that gives you a mid 20kt cruise. While I love the more efficient 3126 Cat, it most likely will give you that "I'm underpowered" feeling. Although, the added torque of either Cat engine will likely plane the 460 quicker result in a shorter blind period.

Hydraulic platforms from a salt water environment need to be checked carefully for corrosion and bushing/pin/arm wear. Get a decent one and put it in fresh water and I guess it would be ok, but the maintenance cost adder for them in salt water is scary.

Bow thrusters.........I never turn on the one on the 460DA I help my friend with. Nice option......but certainly not necessary. If the wind is blowing so hard that I need a thruster on the 46, I need to be at home, not on the boat.

Suggestions: 1.)I'd be looking for a 2001 or later hardtop 460 w/ 6CTA's and a good service record rather than earlier or cheaper boats. 2.)Have a Cummins certified technician survey the engines and the generator. 3.)Have a hull survey done by a surveyor who can test moisture levels in the hull and deck. NOTE: You don't need a surveyor on a moisture witch hunt, but you do need someone familiar with Sea Ray construction.

Good luck...............

 

[Carver370]

Whats your ideal price range? That dictates what years your able to consider very well. I know of a 2001 in my area (Great Lakes Freshwater) with a Hardtop, thruster, and cherry interior that is being repoed in the next 2 weeks. The owner would rather sell it. PM me for more info.

 

[tobnpr]

We use the boat more like a condo on the lake. 99% we are at anchor in a cove for the weekend. TO give you an indea. We ran our 340 for 4 seasons and put only 110 hours on her. The genny runs all the time though. Grnated, one year was a bust for us because our son was in his second year and boating was difficult. Realistically we run her for about 30-40 hours a year.

This would be the textbook example of where gassers in a big cruiser would be the perfect fit...

I'm like you and don't run mine enough for their own good...

 

[Alex D]

This would be the textbook example of where gassers in a big cruiser would be the perfect fit...

I'm like you and don't run mine enough for their own good...

Yeah, that's us ... longest haul one away on the lake is 10 miles and we usually run 40 miles a weekend.

 

[Alex D]

Frank, thank you!! This is most helpful and good advice. :thumbsup:

I would avoid the lower priced 460's, even though that is where we all tend to focus. The reasons are that the cheaper boats are either very early or are soft tops boats which have always sold at a significant discount to and have much lower demand than the hard top versions.........means you can't sell them easily when/if you need to.

The first couple of years, the hardtop, hydraulic platform and bow thruster were all options and added right at $100K to the retail cost of thew boat. That same (almost) differential follows the used market at well which is why some 460's seem cheap and others seem high within a year.

The 46 is a great boat and handles well and easily. I've owned a 450DA since '97 and keep up a 2001 460DA for a friend who cannot use it now and there are 2 pretty significant differences between the boats........450 has a superb engine room for a do-it-yourselfer; the 460 engine space is an after thought.....tough access to lots of stuff and cramped for such a large boat. The 460Da also has a significant bow rise when approaching planing speeds. You can be literally blind for several seconds. This may not be an issue for some folks in some locations, but where we are, it means you run at a fast idle to completely open water, because of tourist and rental boat traffic (assume they have no clue, because most don't).

I can't get too excited about interior colors since that one is a personal preference. The Cherry is warmer feeling, but tends to make the cabin a tad dark.......the 460DA I mentioned above is cherry and has had all the interior halogen 12V lights replaced with Cantilupi fixtures to increase lighting from 10W to 20W per fixture, and it helped with the "cave" feeling. The maple interior is much lighter and open feeling, but looks a little artificial or plastic since the printed design is too perfect. But, is is a personal choice.....

Early 460DA's that were neglected may have some moisture in the coring around the side vents....in some cases, the entire hull sides were saturated which is a hard fix. The reason is that Sea Ray positioned the hull vent in the hull side, not in the deck cap like on the 450DA. The hull vent hole is sawed into the hull and the vent installed with bedding so any break in the bedding allows rainwater running off the deck and rub rail to get into the cored side. If I bought a 460, the first thing I would do is to pull the side vents off and rebed them.

Engines: The mechanical 6CTA is my favorite for this particular boat. Cat 3208's are also excellent. The weight of the 460 and a 450+ hp engine is a good combination that gives you a mid 20kt cruise. While I love the more efficient 3126 Cat, it most likely will give you that "I'm underpowered" feeling. Although, the added torque of either Cat engine will likely plane the 460 quicker result in a shorter blind period.

Hydraulic platforms from a salt water environment need to be checked carefully for corrosion and bushing/pin/arm wear. Get a decent one and put it in fresh water and I guess it would be ok, but the maintenance cost adder for them in salt water is scary.

Bow thrusters.........I never turn on the one on the 460DA I help my friend with. Nice option......but certainly not necessary. If the wind is blowing so hard that I need a thruster on the 46, I need to be at home, not on the boat.

Suggestions: 1.)I'd be looking for a 2001 or later hardtop 460 w/ 6CTA's and a good service record rather than earlier or cheaper boats. 2.)Have a Cummins certified technician survey the engines and the generator. 3.)Have a hull survey done by a surveyor who can test moisture levels in the hull and deck. NOTE: You don't need a surveyor on a moisture witch hunt, but you do need someone familiar with Sea Ray construction.

Good luck...............

 

[Skuza]

I could be wrong but I thought I ran across a '99-00 GAS 460 years ago while browsing the used market. Could this have been a typo? I couldve sworn there were ER pics to back it up. Frank W?

 

[katricol]

I don't think they made a 460 with gas

 

[Alex D]

I could be wrong but I thought I ran across a '99-00 GAS 460 years ago while browsing the used market. Could this have been a typo? I couldve sworn there were ER pics to back it up. Frank W?

Typo ... there was never a 460DA with gassers ...

 

[BRBSTA]

I would avoid the lower priced 460's, even though that is where we all tend to focus. The reasons are that the cheaper boats are either very early or are soft tops boats which have always sold at a significant discount to and have much lower demand than the hard top versions.........means you can't sell them easily when/if you need to.

The first couple of years, the hardtop, hydraulic platform and bow thruster were all options and added right at $100K to the retail cost of thew boat. That same (almost) differential follows the used market at well which is why some 460's seem cheap and others seem high within a year.

The 46 is a great boat and handles well and easily. I've owned a 450DA since '97 and keep up a 2001 460DA for a friend who cannot use it now and there are 2 pretty significant differences between the boats........450 has a superb engine room for a do-it-yourselfer; the 460 engine space is an after thought.....tough access to lots of stuff and cramped for such a large boat. The 460Da also has a significant bow rise when approaching planing speeds. You can be literally blind for several seconds. This may not be an issue for some folks in some locations, but where we are, it means you run at a fast idle to completely open water, because of tourist and rental boat traffic (assume they have no clue, because most don't).

I can't get too excited about interior colors since that one is a personal preference. The Cherry is warmer feeling, but tends to make the cabin a tad dark.......the 460DA I mentioned above is cherry and has had all the interior halogen 12V lights replaced with Cantilupi fixtures to increase lighting from 10W to 20W per fixture, and it helped with the "cave" feeling. The maple interior is much lighter and open feeling, but looks a little artificial or plastic since the printed design is too perfect. But, is is a personal choice.....

Early 460DA's that were neglected may have some moisture in the coring around the side vents....in some cases, the entire hull sides were saturated which is a hard fix. The reason is that Sea Ray positioned the hull vent in the hull side, not in the deck cap like on the 450DA. The hull vent hole is sawed into the hull and the vent installed with bedding so any break in the bedding allows rainwater running off the deck and rub rail to get into the cored side. If I bought a 460, the first thing I would do is to pull the side vents off and rebed them.

Engines: The mechanical 6CTA is my favorite for this particular boat. Cat 3208's are also excellent. The weight of the 460 and a 450+ hp engine is a good combination that gives you a mid 20kt cruise. While I love the more efficient 3126 Cat, it most likely will give you that "I'm underpowered" feeling. Although, the added torque of either Cat engine will likely plane the 460 quicker result in a shorter blind period.

Hydraulic platforms from a salt water environment need to be checked carefully for corrosion and bushing/pin/arm wear. Get a decent one and put it in fresh water and I guess it would be ok, but the maintenance cost adder for them in salt water is scary.

Bow thrusters.........I never turn on the one on the 460DA I help my friend with. Nice option......but certainly not necessary. If the wind is blowing so hard that I need a thruster on the 46, I need to be at home, not on the boat.

Suggestions: 1.)I'd be looking for a 2001 or later hardtop 460 w/ 6CTA's and a good service record rather than earlier or cheaper boats. 2.)Have a Cummins certified technician survey the engines and the generator. 3.)Have a hull survey done by a surveyor who can test moisture levels in the hull and deck. NOTE: You don't need a surveyor on a moisture witch hunt, but you do need someone familiar with Sea Ray construction.

Good luck...............

Frank can you tell me more about the cantaluppi lights were they a direct replacement did they require a new controller are they dimmable can you provide pictures

Thanks for any in sight you may provide Ron:thumbsup:

 

[fwebster]

It took some doing but we........I replaced the spoiler lights in my arch at the same time since the cut out was the same.........found a Cantilupi fixture that was spring loaded and fit the existing cut out. The Cantnilupi light has spring "wings" on the back that you fold in and insert the light into the hole. When you release the springs they haold the bezel tightly against the headliner. Because the wattage was doubled.......10 to 20, we also trimmed the excess headliner fabric away so it would not rest against the Cantilupi housing. We added up the wattage and, as I recall, the amperage was close, but the 12V circuit never tripped a breaker, so installation was nothing more than cutting out the OEM light and splicing in the new fixture.

Aa year or so ago, someone else asked me about the Cantilupi lights and the exact fixture we used was discontinued. You will need to start the search over.......first by pulling one of the lights out and determining the hole size you have, then by matching the bezel shape and color to what your preference is.

I will also tell you that Cantilupi is a very high quality light and you won't be disapointed.