Looking for knowledge and opinions on a 400DB

[Alex F]

Hey guys,

It seams that we’ve reached the point when we’re ready to move up to the diesel boat to accommodate our cruising lifestyle. We’ve looked at several models and currently have our eyes on a 2000 and newer 400DB. I know we have number of 400DB owners and I’d love to hear their reviews and warnings. Based on my research and recommendations from what I’ve received so far it’s very good boat. However, there’s no such thing as a “perfect” boat, so I was hoping to get opinions here from anyone who knows this model.

Engines:
At this point I’ve learned that 1999 (the oldest I’d consider) until 2000 the boat comes with CATs 3116 or 3126 engines. It looks like from 2001 the boat comes with Cummins 430HP. As far as I know all 3 good engine models. I was advised that small percentage of 3126s had some issues that usually come up around 600-650hrs. So, if I’m looking at lower hours it’s something to be aware of. Would someone give me more details on this and what are the chances of facing the issue? Would you say go only with one engine model over the other for some reason?

Generator:
Most of the boats have Westerbeke 8KW generators. Are these powerful enough to run the “whole house”? Any known issues with this model? Some boats out there have them replaced or had major repair work done. Is this due to the age and the location (salt water) or some known issue (assuming they were properly maintained)?

HULL:
I was told that 400DBs come with BALSA-Cored hulls. I know that there’re tons of boats with this type of hulls and all are fine. There will always be some boats with big problems, but what I know the percentage is small. Is the surveyor’s moisture reading inspection will be sufficient enough to keep me out of the troubled boat or is there a special trick (besides the hammer test) you guys can share to test the boat?

Hydraulic Lift
I’m told that these boats are stern heavy and good size dinghy sitting on the hydraulic lift will create a performance issue. I would love to have this option, but don’t want to create or adapt another problem. Can you guys tell me how bad is it?

There’re tons of things to learn about the boat, so if you guys can help me find the biggest showstoppers that would be great.

Thanks,
Alex.

 

[Soren]

....

 

[Ididntdoit]

I'm not a 400db owner but I know quite a bit has been spilled here on this model - I seem to remember that starting sometime in 02 or 03 the bottoms were all glass (sea ray can verify based on HIN) and they had the preferred cummins power - the general concens us was the 3116/3126 boats were a little slow/underpowered - Just wanted to get things going - I'm sure those with more knowledge will chime in soon

 

[Alex F]

.....I seem to remember that starting sometime in 02 or 03 the bottoms were all glass (sea ray can verify based on HIN) ......

Wow, that's great selling point. I hope someone can varify it.

.... and they had the preferred cummins power - the general concens us was the 3116/3126 boats were a little slow/underpowered...

We need some good number of first hand experience falks to verify this. I know that there're always rumors about underpowered boats (e.g. 320DAs with 350MAGs V-drive), which is total BS, IMO. If a loaded boat gets on plane based on the specs, reaches rated WOT RPMs and speed what else is there to expect her to do?

 

[NCBoater]

400DB is a nice boat, we owned a 2003 with Cummins, boat has plenty of power. Boat does sit low in the stearn, with non-integated swim platform just above water level.
All canvas helm with aluminum support bars is extra maintenance. Second stateroom is very tight for adults. Boat is a solid design and is seaworthy. Does have framed windows which could present leak issues with age. Helm is in the front so seeing the swim platform is a challenge when docking. My opinion, don't buy a Cat powered 400 DB, since many will steer clear of this one when you want to sell. Our genny had plenty of power to run everything, an Onan unit.

Mark

 

[Alex F]

Mark,

Was your hull solid or cored?

 

[creik]

thrubolts that fasted swim platform are below waterline in this model, and warrant close look regarding moisture.
i looked at one in the great lakes before finally settling on a 480bd, and it was so wet that when we took core samples, water ran out for a long time. that said, sea ray corporate, in 2008, would have sent their hull experts to wisconsin to fix a 2000 boat on their dime. the deal fell trough, because the brokering dealer, largest sea ray dealer in great lakes area, refused to cooperate and launched the boat before sea ray corporate could look at it and confirm our findings....

 

[Alex F]

Craik, I think you thanked your surveyor big time! Thank you for sharing this critical point.

 

[fc3]

You can call Sea Ray and ask them how the boat was built. They can check their records and tell you where the boat was cored and also if the transom was reinforced sufficiently to handle the weight of a lift.

Personally, I'd rather the Cat boat. According to an article in Powerboat Report, which I posted before. the 3126 runs faster and burns less fuel than the 6CTA.

Faster, better acceleration, less fuel... what's not to like?

Best regards,
Frank

One
Two
Three
Four

 

[SR400DB]

Hey guys,

It seams that we’ve reached the point when we’re ready to move up to the diesel boat to accommodate our cruising lifestyle. We’ve looked at several models and currently have our eyes on a 2000 and newer 400DB. I know we have number of 400DB owners and I’d love to hear their reviews and warnings. Based on my research and recommendations from what I’ve received so far it’s very good boat. However, there’s no such thing as a “perfect” boat, so I was hoping to get opinions here from anyone who knows this model.

Engines:
At this point I’ve learned that 1999 (the oldest I’d consider) until 2000 the boat comes with CATs 3116 or 3126 engines. It looks like from 2001 the boat comes with Cummins 430HP. As far as I know all 3 good engine models. I was advised that small percentage of 3126s had some issues that usually come up around 600-650hrs. So, if I’m looking at lower hours it’s something to be aware of. Would someone give me more details on this and what are the chances of facing the issue? Would you say go only with one engine model over the other for some reason? .

I looked at this boat with Cats and Cummins, I bought the Cummins and my boat is NOT for sale (means I am quite pleased with her), used 40+ times a year and has gone up and down the West Coast numerous times. I read the article comparing the two engine manufacturers as well. At least the ones I looked at in 03, the Cummins boat was much faster at cruise (3 -4 knots) burning almost identical amounts of fuel (Cummins a little more).

[/quote]Generator:
Most of the boats have Westerbeke 8KW generators. Are these powerful enough to run the “whole house”? Any known issues with this model? Some boats out there have them replaced or had major repair work done. Is this due to the age and the location (salt water) or some known issue (assuming they were properly maintained)?.[/quote]

I have the Onan genny in my boat. My only complaint was it was very loud when I purchased the boat. Over the course of three seasons, I installed a sound shield and three different mufflers/exhaust units. I finally found a set up that is pretty good. Runs everything on the boat without issue

[/quote]HULL:
I was told that 400DBs come with BALSA-Cored hulls. I know that there’re tons of boats with this type of hulls and all are fine. There will always be some boats with big problems, but what I know the percentage is small. Is the surveyor’s moisture reading inspection will be sufficient enough to keep me out of the troubled boat or is there a special trick (besides the hammer test) you guys can share to test the boat? .[/quote]

All of the 400db's are cored hull boats per Sea Ray. The newer version (42/44 and now the 450db I guess) has the exact same wet surface with an integral platform. I toured the factory in late 03 and saw the modifed form that was being worked on for the new version. My boat weighs 33500 lbs, I would image the weight would rise substantially if the bottom was solid, not sure they ever went with a solid hull. Find someone with an IR camera and a person trained to use moisture meters. Both are very valuable tools

[/quote]Hydraulic Lift
I’m told that these boats are stern heavy and good size dinghy sitting on the hydraulic lift will create a performance issue. I would love to have this option, but don’t want to create or adapt another problem. Can you guys tell me how bad is it?.[/quote]

I know of a couple boats out here with hyd. lifts, they sit low in the stern. My boat does not have a lift and when full of fuel / water / crap, my exhaust is under water until some of the fuel is burned/water used.

[/quote]There’re tons of things to learn about the boat, so if you guys can help me find the biggest showstoppers that would be great..[/quote]

You can pm me anytime, I know my boat from top to bottom and have performed almost all of the maintenance on her over the years. It is generally just my wife, the dog and myself on the boat, fits our family and our needs perfectly.

 

[MAKC]

the 400DB looks like it will be our next boat too. I've seen a few of them in the last month and i love the way it looks both inside and out. And for the way we use our boat, it seems like a perfect fit (until i hit the lottery that is). The info here is great and thanks to all the 400DB owners for sharing some critical info for those of us considering the jump.

Mike

 

[fwebster]

With respect to the engines, The Cat powered boats will have more torque than Cummins, but the 6CTA boats have more total horsepower. In the real world all that means is the Cummins boats are faster and will burn more fuel than Caterpillar powered ones. Unless you need to run speeds in the mid 20 kt area and can be happy at 20-22 kts, the Cat boats are adequately powered.

To correct one fact quoted in the OP, the 3126 engines that had soft blocks or bad TRW valves usually exhibited problems in the first 125-150 hours and it does not take 5+ years or 600+ hours to figure it out.

An 8 kw generator is just right for the equipment on a 400DB.........it will handle all the starting loads when everything is turned on and it will run under load most of the time, which is exactly whart you want. However, the 8BTD Westerbeke is a noisey little sucker.

A TNT lift is a mistake on boats of this vintage. The cylinder rods are wet and will eventually pit......replacement cylinders are made to order and will cost several thousand $. Besides, put an additional 1500 lbs worth of platform on the transom and hang another 1500 lbs worth of dinghy or pwc 4 ft aft of the boat and you make a stern heavy boat that works hard to get out of the water even more stern heavy and slower.

 

[Turtlesboat]

I've never hit my load on the westerbeke. With EVERYTHING running, handles it fine. How many amps can the westerbeke 8K handle?

 

[Fynder]

We owned a 2001 400DB with Cummins and a westerbeke Genny from 2005-2010. Bought a model with Cummins because of Cat stories at the time and rumored resale value. Bought and sold well on that boat. Great boat and was always totally dependable in all conditions, ran great and I still love it when I see one.

Westerbeke 8kw got somewhat noisier over time and have seen posts here about an Onan muffler replacement. Genny always had enough power for everything.

Platform to water level changed with loading, full water tank just behind transom, dinghy on platform, full fuel and gear all made a difference in appearance while standing still but never affected performance.

 

[Alex F]

In regards to the engines it seams like all 3 should work fine and CATs might be even beter choise due to the economy. I'm currently cruising at 21-23kts burnig 24-26gph. If I can cruise at 20-22kts in 400 and burn 22gph I'll be a happy camper. I love cruising, so if I get to my destination a bit later I'm ok with it.

It seams like I have to live with the fact that hydraulic lift and 400DB are not made for each other. I'll have to determine if this is a show stopper for me or not. But, let me ask you guys would this setup be a solution to the problem?

Are these cranes good product or they have issue?

One thing I see as a problem is the huge mount in the middle of the sundeck, which is in the way of the sunpads. So, it fixes the dinghy wight issue, but adds another. Is there any other issues that this setup might create?

 

[Alex F]

....Platform to water level changed with loading, full water tank just behind transom, dinghy on platform, full fuel and gear all made a difference in appearance while standing still but never affected performance.

Can you tell me what kind of dinghy did you have on the platform and if you had some kind of davits?

BTW,
I've seen how some folks raised the bottom paint water line on to the bottom of swim platform (it looked like a small triangle).

 

[katricol]

Alex, I know this boat well and you will love the economy of one with the cats. Three at my dock all with the same fuel economy (same as mine). The interior layout ,in my opinion is excellent, and the bridge is great. I agree with F W . I think the hydro lift is great and the boat works ok with it...but again FW is right that it will be a maintenence issue. Having said that I love mine when it works right, but I know I will have to "deal" with issues someday.

 

[fwebster]

There is no free ride; everything you add to a boat comes with trade-offs.

On the deck mounted davit, what you see above the deck is only a part of the crane. There is a 6" (or so) tube that passes thru the deck and must be fastened to the hull. This usually means you lose a closet or a large part of one anyway. A dam is constructed then poured full of resin/epoxy to hold the bottom of the crane in place.

Personally, I don't like anything that is mounted to the cored deck on a Sea Ray. Every hole you put in it is another place for water intrusion. Look at the number of holes needed to mount the davit and cradles for the dinghy......... Unlike the boat bottom on cored hulls, there are no solid pads for mounting deck junk. The bottom on cored hulls usually has solid areas molded in place where thru hulls, transducers, struts, etc. are placed.

Other than that, I guess they are ok.

 

[Alex F]

Frank,

I'm bit puzzled with the design. It sounds like SR made a right decision to add solid areas for the items you described. But, based on the statement from others the transom appears to be cored and the swim platform bolts are under the water, which creates potential problem. Is it a design gap or am I missing something?

 

[Four Suns]

Deleted.