Less than Satisfactory Survey - How does Seller get Results

[Brutus C Paw]

My buyer just pulled out of the purchase agreement. My broker called and said surveyor found a sound anomaly equidistant on both port and starboard sides of hull and could not determine reason. Broker told me the report said no structural defects. Could be how boat was assembled since found on both sides.
I got the written addendum from broker cancelling agreement afterwards and said reason for cancellation was delamination along chines
i called broker back and asked why he did not tell me that, and his response was report does not say delamination; that is buyers interpretation.
I have asked to buy report, but other wise how do I know what report actually says? Boat is back on market but not sure what to do with conflicting hearsay information.
Boat is 2007 38 Sundancer 350 hours and well maintained.

 

[sb in gp]

My buyer just pulled out of the purchase agreement. My broker called and said surveyor found a sound anomaly equidistant on both port and starboard sides of hull and could not determine reason. Broker told me the report said no structural defects. Could be how boat was assembled since found on both sides.
I got the written addendum from broker cancelling agreement afterwards and said reason for cancellation was delamination along chines
i called broker back and asked why he did not tell me that, and his response was report does not say delamination; that is buyers interpretation.
I have asked to buy report, but other wise how do I know what report actually says? Boat is back on market but not sure what to do with conflicting hearsay information.
Boat is 2007 38 Sundancer 350 hours and well maintained.

Boat buyers can be a fickle bunch. I had a similar result when I sold my 320. A buyer brought in a surveyor that came up with a bunch of odd results. I had others making strange offers.

I think some people get cold feet and they think they need to come up with a specific defect to back out. When in fact most contracts really let the buyer out for saying they don't like the color of the curtains.

Just move on. I think a lot of brokers look for higher deposits to eliminate this nonsense.

 

[Ken Wolkens]

Maybe the buyer has cold feet or is a realist. There are tons of boats out there for sale so if a buyer gets a negative finding whether perceived or real, chances are he/she will flake.

As a current buyer (this will be my 16th boat) I backed out of a boat I really liked three days ago. Nothing super terrible was on the survey but there was a list of little things that needed to be addressed plus the bottom was due for paint so I did the math. In addition to the dollars that would be going out after the purchase, the boat would have been tied up for weeks getting the issues addressed. That's not a big deal since I live in a year 'round boating climate but when you start to add the costs of paying for a slip you aren't in, plus yard fees, plus insurance, plus, plus plus...things get ugly looking fast.

So did I get a case of cold feet or was I a realist? I'd say both. After taking time off work, paying the survey, short haul out, pressure wash and captains fees I was into this adventure for over $1000 but that was a drop in the bucket compared to what was about to happen if I signed the deal even at a discounted sale price.

I doubt many prospective buyers are out there just for the fun of it once it gets to the point where real money is exiting their pockets for deposits and the fees associated with the purchase.

FWIW, when I sold my last big boat (41') I did a full survey (before listing it) with an accredited surveyor. I then fixed all of the little things that were found before listing it. The boat was exceptional and the first guy that looked put money down. It passed his survey easily and the boat was sold at the agreed price.

 

[Brutus C Paw]

My real problem is that the broker wrote up a document that was not factual. In theory I am required to disclose this since I only have the document that says the defect, although supposedly it is not accurate. I don't care as much about he buyer as much as the broker writing something not true or he is not forthright when he speaks to me. And yes they say no one will see it, but I know there is information in a file that is misleading or basically wrong. But I have no way of finding out what it really says although I have been harmed, seems like I should be given real evidence if the agreement can be cancelled.

 

[NorCal Boater]

When I was selling my 52' CPMY I found myself dealing with a broker that was not very good at her job and a surveyor that was a moron and completely incompetent. But, the buyers paid for his work and they believed his word even though I paid for another survey that blew the first one out of the. Water. The buyers did go through with the purchase but it cost me over $10k.

I think you may need to get your own survey that may dispute the first one. Not all surveyors are good at their jobs. I would correct as much as you can and re-list with another broker. Find the one in the area that sells the most boats. Seems like it's time to take a proactive approach. Have answers to all the questions before a buyer asks them.

Good luck.

 

[Brutus C Paw]

Broker says they will produce a letter to me with what report actually says, which is my only real issue. It would be hard to find someone who sells more boats in Chicsgo / Milwaukee area. I had boat gone through twice, once when listed by my mechanic and again by broker when placed in storage. Come to think of it, I am a bit unhappy it took over 30 days for buyer to back out.

 

[Carver370]

They do not NEED to disclose the information but it's common practice to at least let the seller know exactly what the issue is. Your broker should b doing all he can to get the survey for you or at least get a second opinion. Is this the buyers broker or your broker?

 

[Brutus C Paw]

It is the buyers broker, but my broker and the buyers broker sit next to each other and have same supervisor. Since Sea Ray has built a bunch of 38's does any one know if it's possible to have broker check with factory to see if they have history of similar results. I'm struggling that my boat, being a SeaRay would be delaminating. Other ideas beyond new survey?

 

[moparlvr4406]

it is the buyers broker, but my broker and the buyers broker sit next to each other and have same supervisor. Since sea ray has built a bunch of 38's does any one know if it's possible to have broker check with factory to see if they have history of similar results. I'm struggling that my boat, being a searay would be delaminating. Other ideas beyond new survey?

where is this delamination ?

 

[Brutus C Paw]

My broker says he has talked to surveyor ( who he says is one of best in Chicago area), and report supposedly says an anomaly in sound when tapping on hull equidistant on both port and starboard sides. No structural defects found.

The PA addendum says delamination along chines, which is what I'm trying to get to be accurate in the / a document. Again I don't know whati is correct. I consider my broker a "friend" as I have bought 2 larger and 2 small boats from him over the last 7 years. Since the buyer and seller broker work for same dealer in same office, I think I should get accurate information. Mechanic who went through boat and touched up bottom paint a year ago says delamination would be obvious and he saw none. I will see if they produce letter promised. If not I know supervisor on first name basis but do not wish to escalate if not necessary.

 

[Woody]

My buyer just pulled out of the purchase agreement. My broker called and said surveyor found a sound anomaly equidistant on both port and starboard sides of hull and could not determine reason. Broker told me the report said no structural defects. Could be how boat was assembled since found on both sides.
I got the written addendum from broker cancelling agreement afterwards and said reason for cancellation was delamination along chines
i called broker back and asked why he did not tell me that, and his response was report does not say delamination; that is buyers interpretation.
I have asked to buy report, but other wise how do I know what report actually says? Boat is back on market but not sure what to do with conflicting hearsay information.
Boat is 2007 38 Sundancer 350 hours and well maintained.

If the surveyor hasn't determined the cause of the anomaly the sellers broker certainly can't. Your broker is the one that should straighten this out. The deals over, you understand the buyer is afraid of the anomaly in soundings, no need to guess at the cause.

FWIW, I had an 'anomaly' in soundings on the stern of my 420DA, at the end of the hollow fiberglass stringers. My surveyor had seen that before. As luck would have it another CSR member was buying a 420DA and had the same anomaly. In his case several holes were drilled in attempt to see what was what, checking for delamination. Everything looked good, no problems found. I felt the efforts of the other CSR member supported my surveyors experience and opinion of my boat, I accepted the soundings as the anomaly they were.

 

[Capt. Rusty Higgins]

Brutus.....

I am like the others and believe that deal is dead, but for future reference if you would like to share the survey report with me, I will be happy to read and reply to you what the language says. Not trying to get in your deal but would offer a factory position on what items the surveyor considers to be "appears", "possible", "not visible", "sounded like"...and all the other non-committable words they tend to use. No I am not in the survey business but have seen a Sea Ray boat once or twice.

PM me if I can help sir.

Rusty

 

[Robf]

Completely agree...I also just recently backed out of a deal on a 405 Cruisers Yacht due to moisture levels that were somewhat elevated and a laundry list of things that needed repaired just simply due to poor maintenance. This alone gave me enough "pause" to drop the dollars that were being asked. I believe the surveyor would have slanted the report in any direction I wanted to go, but since the deal was contingent on survey satisfactory to buyer, I just had enough of a bad feeling about the boat to cancel the deal. There were just enough small signs to make me wonder what else was lurking. Your boat may be fantastic, but if the buyer is making a sizable investment, anything that gives him that bad feeling is reason to cancel. Wish you the best in selling, but just giving my recent perspective as a buyer.
Rob

Maybe the buyer has cold feet or is a realist. There are tons of boats out there for sale so if a buyer gets a negative finding whether perceived or real, chances are he/she will flake.

As a current buyer (this will be my 16th boat) I backed out of a boat I really liked three days ago. Nothing super terrible was on the survey but there was a list of little things that needed to be addressed plus the bottom was due for paint so I did the math. In addition to the dollars that would be going out after the purchase, the boat would have been tied up for weeks getting the issues addressed. That's not a big deal since I live in a year 'round boating climate but when you start to add the costs of paying for a slip you aren't in, plus yard fees, plus insurance, plus, plus plus...things get ugly looking fast.

So did I get a case of cold feet or was I a realist? I'd say both. After taking time off work, paying the survey, short haul out, pressure wash and captains fees I was into this adventure for over $1000 but that was a drop in the bucket compared to what was about to happen if I signed the deal even at a discounted sale price.

I doubt many prospective buyers are out there just for the fun of it once it gets to the point where real money is exiting their pockets for deposits and the fees associated with the purchase.

FWIW, when I sold my last big boat (41') I did a full survey (before listing it) with an accredited surveyor. I then fixed all of the little things that were found before listing it. The boat was exceptional and the first guy that looked put money down. It passed his survey easily and the boat was sold at the agreed price.

 

[Brutus C Paw]

Xxx

 

[Brutus C Paw]

Thanks for the comments. I understood from the start that this deal was dead, but I want to understand if there is an issue. The buyer will not return any calls or emails from the dealer, either the brokers office at dealer in Wisconsn or office where he lives in Ohio. My broker knows surveyor well, so he says, and tells me delamination in chines makes no sense knowing how boat is constructed. No moisture was found anywhere, and I have the verbal that there is no issues with boat. I wish the sellers broker would not have written down what the buyer told him without any documentation, again that is my issue in all this. I have a Purchase Agrrement addendum which appears to be false, and damaging to me. It seems there should be some due diligence required by buyers broker in voiding deal; I understand no one at dealer has seen the document, only the word of buyer on why he wanted out. I would have accepted voiding deal for "dirty blinds", but documenting unsubstantiated structural problems seems a part of process that needs corrective action.


Thanks Rusty and others, if I can get the survey I will let you all know and will appreciate insights you all have. Meanwhile, there is a well mantained 38DA back on market.

 

[Bob & Sue]

Broker says they will produce a letter to me with what report actually says, which is my only real issue. It would be hard to find someone who sells more boats in Chicsgo / Milwaukee area. I had boat gone through twice, once when listed by my mechanic and again by broker when placed in storage. Come to think of it, I am a bit unhappy it took over 30 days for buyer to back out.

I agree with all that has been stated I would definitely get Rusty's opinion of what the wording was on the survey.

You stated in a post this took over 30 days before buyer backed out I would in your next sales agreement have specific terms in the contract to limit time for sea trials, surveys & anything the buyer wants done something like 3 days to sea trial, 7 days for hull & engine survey and 72 hours after completion of all terms for buyer's commitment or withdrawal from contract with at least a $1000.00 non refundable deposit if the time lines were not met unless there is a written addendum to sales contract for an extension.

If the buyer is not willing to agree to these terms he probably isn't that committed to purchasing or hasn't thought it out losing $1000.00 will make the buyer think now not later in the process. Just my opinion if the broker won't write it up with your terms you would have the right to cancel your listing agreement and get another broker.

I would also add a clause giving you the right to any surveys within 24 hours of buyer or buyers broker receiving them.

Good luck take it as a learning experience for yourself and everyone on here.

 

[Brutus C Paw]

We had the short time frames in the original agreement but Lake Michigan did not cooperate for sea trial. Then the surveyor was backed up in getting written reports out, although we cut the requested extension from 7 days to 3.

My learning experience is to figure out how to get the purchase agreement to be factual. If what was given to me in writing was "anomaly in sound" this post would not have happened. The buyers right to document false statements seems to border on fraud with no recorse by seller.

Theoretically he could have written in the addendum that survey said both engines were missing per the survey and I would have to disclose that to next buyer.

 

[Brutus C Paw]

I would also add a clause giving you the right to any surveys within 24 hours of buyer or buyers broker receiving them.

Good luck take it as a learning experience for yourself and everyone on here.

Is this something that is reasonable to include in Purchase Agreement?

 

[Bob & Sue]

We bought our boat from the local Sea Ray dealer it had a clause in the agreement similar to that it stated by my memory the contract is in a safe deposit box.

"they had a right to a copy of the survey from buyer or broker within 72 hours of buyer not purchasing boat because of the results of sea trial and or survey results before refunding said deposit. If it was not received deposit would be forfeited"

We did give them a $1000.00 deposit after we went home and read the contract prior to signing it this gave us time to decide if we were going to purchase it without wasting ours or their time and money.

I didn't hesitate at the time it sounded reasonable they had the cost of transporting from their facility & launching our boat for sea trial it sounded fair to me, we were going to purchase it unless it failed sea trial or survey so we had nothing to lose.