Left behind

TheDudeAbides said:
The very top of that agreement states the following:


1. Guarantees and enforcement mechanisms that will prevent the use of the soil of Afghanistan by any group or individual against the security of the United States and its allies.
2. Guarantees, enforcement mechanisms, and announcement of a timeline for the withdrawal of all foreign forces from Afghanistan.
3. After the announcement of guarantees for a complete withdrawal of foreign forces and timeline in the presence of international witnesses, and guarantees and the announcement in the presence of international witnesses that Afghan soil will not be used against the security of the United States and its allies, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban will start intra-Afghan negotiations with Afghan sides on March 10, 2020, which corresponds to Rajab 15, 1441 on the Hijri Lunar calendar and Hoot 20, 1398 on the Hijri Solar calendar.
4. A permanent and comprehensive ceasefire will be an item on the agenda of the intra-Afghan dialogue and negotiations. The participants of intra-Afghan negotiations will discuss the date and modalities of a permanent and comprehensive ceasefire, including joint implementation mechanisms, which will be announced along with the completion and agreement over the future political roadmap of Afghanistan.

I’m thinking all those requirements were not met entirely as intended. Certainly the “ceasefire” clause was not met during the final weeks of our exit as the Taliban overwhelmed the Afghan forces. That group sweeping across the country as police, military and civilians all flee in terror kinda strikes me as the opposite of a ceasefire and how the withdrawal was intended to go. once that began, our operations to leave Afghanistan should have halted as it was obvious how things were going. Instead, we hastened the departure which resulted in chaos and death. Not to mention handing over untold amounts of our equipment.
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What you missed was the stick Trump was carrying.
 
Shits going to hit the fan on all this. The political fodder will be too much for the Republicans to ignore. Those guys are walking around salivating frothing at the mouth to dig in to the juicy backstory here between Biden and Afghanistan.

Next we’ll see “Americans held hostage 2.0” type headlines because of all the Americans we left behind.

Repubs are going to play this like a fiddle for the elections next year and ‘24.
 
El Capitan said:
What you missed was the stick Trump was carrying.
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Well, I certainly think it's no coincidence that the Taliban started aggressively taking over the country before we had completed our departure, likely knowing full well they'd get away with it and that instead of our forces putting on the breaks, we'd instead speed up and leave the mess behind with no punishment to the Taliban for failing to hold to the terms..
 
El Capitan said:
Shits going to hit the fan on all this. The political fodder will be too much for the Republicans to ignore. Those guys are walking around salivating frothing at the mouth to dig in to the juicy backstory here between Biden and Afghanistan.

Next we’ll see “Americans held hostage 2.0” type headlines because of all the Americans we left behind.

Repubs are going to play this like a fiddle for the elections next year and ‘24.
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You're fooling yourself if you don't think this tactic is overplayed equally by BOTH parties. Especially when it comes to election season.
 
TheDudeAbides said:
Well, I certainly think it's no coincidence that the Taliban started aggressively taking over the country before we had completed our departure, likely knowing full well they'd get away with it and that instead of our forces putting on the breaks, we'd instead speed up and leave the mess behind with no punishment to the Taliban for failing to hold to the terms..
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Soon as we evacked Bagram air base Taliban knew it was checkmate.
 
TheDudeAbides said:
You're fooling yourself if you don't think this tactic is overplayed equally by BOTH parties. Especially when it comes to election season.
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Sure but the facts are on the Republican side. All they have to show are the faces of the 13 sacrificed by this moron and the faces of all the Americans he left behind. Then the pics of the Taliban wearing US Marine uniforms and flying our Blackhawks.

It’s an orgy of materials they’ll capitalize on.
 
El Capitan said:
Sure but the facts are on the Republican side. All they have to show are the faces of the 13 sacrificed by this moron and the faces of all the Americans he left behind. Then the pics of the Taliban wearing US Marine uniforms and flying our Blackhawks.

It’s an orgy of materials they’ll capitalize on.
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Like Benghazi? I swear I've seen this show before.......
 
TheDudeAbides said:
Like Benghazi? I swear I've seen this show before.......
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That didn't work out to anyone's advantage. The facts are Trump had 11 months to pull people out and Biden 6 months but everything was left to the last minute. Both President's failed on this.
 
Iprof said:
That didn't work out to anyone's advantage. The facts are Trump had 11 months to pull people out and Biden 6 months but everything was left to the last minute. Both President's failed on this.
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A. it probably didn't help Hillary with her campaign. So many people arguably claim that the Benghazi hearings had a large part in her losing. Thus, it DID work out to someone's advantage. That's pretty much the point. Just like how Democrats spent 4 years in the same manner to sway voters away from Trump. Every party slings mud against the other. to get votes That's politics. Meanwhile behind closed doors they're all laughing together at how gullible most American voters are.

B. While it's convenient to blame the previous guy because of one's obvious bias, the fact is he's not president anymore. He made the original agreement and Biden had the power to change those conditions as he sees fit as THE CURRENT PRESIDENT. He also had the power as commander of our armed forces to halt the withdrawal once it was clear what the Taliban was doing. Especially as the Afghan forces were fleeing, it was clear that the terms of the agreement had been violated.

C. I don't see how Trump is at fault for arranging the treaty and putting into place our exit from a country we've been in for 20 years that all previous presidents were unable to accomplish. The treaty was not an absolute that we would be out by "X" date no matter what. If that had been the case Biden wouldn't have had the power to extend that date (which is EXACTLY what he did), especially because the terms of the agreement had clearly been violated as explained above.

PLEASE, explain exactly how Trump is responsible when he negotiated the treaty and started the process, though the final execution was left to Biden who ignored the fact that the Taliban had violated the terms. Don't let your bias influence your view of the matter. Be completely honest about the course of events and then see if he REALLY is at fault of it's just a matter of projection.

Also, if the president DOESN'T actually have the power to overturn treaties from the previous president as you seem to be arguing, how did Trump manage to reverse the Iran treaty set by Obama? Because he had the authority to do so, just like Biden had with the Afghanistan withdrawal......
 
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What I can’t understand is Resident Joe Biden said ‘Afghanistan was a success’ but then blamed Trump for what I assume it not being a success - what gives?
 
OllieC said:
What I can’t understand is Resident Joe Biden said ‘Afghanistan was a success’ but then blamed Trump for what I assume it not being a success - what gives?
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In fairness, he's just following his mentor who claimed "we're leaving behind a sovereign, stable and self-reliant Iraq,". We know how that turned out. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
 
OllieC said:
What I can’t understand is Resident Joe Biden said ‘Afghanistan was a success’ but then blamed Trump for what I assume it not being a success - what gives?
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It's simple. If there is any success, its because of what he did. If there is any failure it is because of Trump. He is not man enough to take any responsibility for any failures.
 
TheDudeAbides said:
A. it probably didn't help Hillary with her campaign. So many people arguably claim that the Benghazi hearings had a large part in her losing. Thus, it DID work out to someone's advantage. That's pretty much the point. Just like how Democrats spent 4 years in the same manner to sway voters away from Trump. Every party slings mud against the other. to get votes That's politics. Meanwhile behind closed doors they're all laughing together at how gullible most American voters are.

B. While it's convenient to blame the previous guy because of one's obvious bias, the fact is he's not president anymore. He made the original agreement and Biden had the power to change those conditions as he sees fit as THE CURRENT PRESIDENT. He also had the power as commander of our armed forces to halt the withdrawal once it was clear what the Taliban was doing. Especially as the Afghan forces were fleeing, it was clear that the terms of the agreement had been violated.

C. I don't see how Trump is at fault for arranging the treaty and putting into place our exit from a country we've been in for 20 years that all previous presidents were unable to accomplish. The treaty was not an absolute that we would be out by "X" date no matter what. If that had been the case Biden wouldn't have had the power to extend that date (which is EXACTLY what he did), especially because the terms of the agreement had clearly been violated as explained above.

PLEASE, explain exactly how Trump is responsible when he negotiated the treaty and started the process, though the final execution was left to Biden who ignored the fact that the Taliban had violated the terms. Don't let your bias influence your view of the matter. Be completely honest about the course of events and then see if he REALLY is at fault of it's just a matter of projection.

Also, if the president DOESN'T actually have the power to overturn treaties from the previous president as you seem to be arguing, how did Trump manage to reverse the Iran treaty set by Obama? Because he had the authority to do so, just like Biden had with the Afghanistan withdrawal......
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You missed my point. Trump had 11 months to get people and machinery out but he didn't evey single piece of equipment should have ben removed with the troops or destroyed. Trump did reduce the number of troops in Afganistan as per the deal but neglected the equipment and the civilians. There was no plan put in place no orders to leave Afghanistan. Biden became President in 2021 and still nothing happened.
Yes Biden could have refused to leave and sent troops to Afghanistan and the war would have started all over again, would have been a horrible decision.
Afghanistan went on for 30 altogether nothing changed should have abandoned it years ago.
 
Iprof said:
You missed my point. Trump had 11 months to get people and machinery out but he didn't evey single piece of equipment should have ben removed with the troops or destroyed. Trump did reduce the number of troops in Afganistan as per the deal but neglected the equipment and the civilians. There was no plan put in place no orders to leave Afghanistan. Biden became President in 2021 and still nothing happened.
Yes Biden could have refused to leave and sent troops to Afghanistan and the war would have started all over again, would have been a horrible decision.
Afghanistan went on for 30 altogether nothing changed should have abandoned it years ago.
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If you want to play the blame game we can look at how Obama had 8 years to do it but accomplished nothing. What did he get that Nobel prize for again? Wasn’t it for bringing peace and stability to the Middle East? How’d that work with Joe in the passenger seat? This seems all to familiar. Take credit for all the the promises and then point the finger when you can’t deliver. Again, the decisions were ultimately Biden’s. Stop trying to shift the blame because of Biden’s poor leadership and decisions. It’s sad.
 
TheDudeAbides said:
If you want to play the blame game we can look at how Obama had 8 years to do it but accomplished nothing. What did he get that Nobel prize for again? Wasn’t it for bringing peace and stability to the Middle East? How’d that work with Joe in the passenger seat? This seems all to familiar. Take credit for all the the promises and then point the finger when you can’t deliver. Again, the decisions were ultimately Biden’s. Stop trying to shift the blame because of Biden’s poor leadership and decisions. It’s sad.
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Yes they were his to either break the agreement the US had or honor it. He took office Jan 2021 not enough time to get out of Afganistan. The Telaban had not broken the agreement. An extension is asked for and negotiated to Aug 31. The Taliban break the agreement in the final weeks of the agreement Biden could have said send troops in were going to war.
Why did Trump not remove all that equipment he had 11 months to do it but no plan at least start the removal.
As I said both Trump and Biden are to blame for this mess.
 
Iprof said:
Yes there were his to either break the agreement the US had or honor it. He took office Jan 2021 not enough time to get out of Afganistan. The Telaban has not broken the agreement. An extension is asked for and negotiated to Aug 31. The Taliban break the agreement in the final weeks of the agreement Biden could have said send troops in were going to war.
Why did Trump not remove all that equipment he had 11 months to do it but no plan at least start the removal.
As I said both Trump and Biden are to blame for this mess.
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Wait, did you just say “not enough time to get out of Afghanistan”? Yet they managed to throw it all together in a matter of days instead of SIX MONTHS. We can bring all that equipment in within a matter of weeks if they want but six months isn’t enough to either take out or destroy that equipment? You really believe that BS, don’t you. We get it- orange man bad. But he’s gone and at some point you have to simply accept that Joe is responsible for his own actions, or lack thereof.
 
TheDudeAbides said:
Wait, did you just say “not enough time to get out of Afghanistan”? Yet they managed to throw it all together in a matter of days instead of SIX MONTHS. We can bring all that equipment in within a matter of weeks if they want but six months isn’t enough to either take out or destroy that equipment? You really believe that BS, don’t you. We get it- orange man bad. But he’s gone and at some point you have to simply accept that Joe is responsible for his own actions, or lack thereof.
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Just because you worship Trump does not make him blameless in this but you just can't see how both are to blame so I will leave it at that with you.
 
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