Large Battery Draw problem

rszarka

rszarka

Member
Mar 19, 2011
982
Sydney Australia
Boat Info
1999 Sea Ray Sundancer 540
Engines
Twin Detroit Diesel 8v92TA
[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]Hi guys[/FONT][FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]
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[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]Could use some help. I have a large drain on my batteries. [/FONT]
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[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]I have tried all the standard things shutting down everything from the main board down stairs, removing fuses etc to no avail. The battery drain even remains with all the systems and main breakers shut down. It seems to be large around 3 amps. [/FONT]
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[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]The batteries are now all dead and do not retain a charge for longer than an hour or two. [/FONT]
[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]I am going to replace but would like to find the drain first so I do not ruin the new batteries aswell as the ruined ones are under a year old. That's how bad this drain is. [/FONT]
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[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]I have gotten myself a DC clamp plan on charging up the batteries then shutting everything down and attempting to find which wires still have current flowing trough them to try and locate what is pulling power from the batteries with everything shut off. [/FONT]
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[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]Any suggestions, ideas, hints as how to best locate this power drain would be very greatly appreciated. Ianbat from csr is helping me to diagnose and suggested I post here for everyone's input. [/FONT]
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[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]I have attached pictures of my main panels in the salon. [/FONT]
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[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]The one of the 12 volt panel with the negative -4.3 number is what shows when you shut off the 24 volt switches on that panel. The other picture is with both the 12 volt and 24 volt systems energised. [/FONT]
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[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]The voltmeter is set on my 12 volt bank for these shots. [/FONT]
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[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]Any ideas would be awesome![/FONT]
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Thanks so much everyone!

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I think a little explanation of what the number are representing would be helpful. The panels as I see it read -04, -05,-09, -05 7.9,9.19 and 7.9,-4.3.

What are those numbers? Voltage, current? Have they always had the negative (for example) -4.3 there when turned off or is that something new?
 
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Alarms such as Carbon Monoxide and Gas Fume Detectors do not run through any switches and are for all practical purposes wired directly to the battery. Also bilge pumps are wired the same way so they cannot be accidentally turned off. You may have a bilge pump or shower sump running continuously that you cannot hear and they would draw at least 3 amps.
 
what about a stereo head unit?....usually there is one wire connected directly to the battery to keep the station memory, clock and user settings......sounds like it has to be something that is directly wired to the batteries that is not routed through the fuse/breaker panel.....what about the bilge pump?.....i believe it is wired both directly to the battery as well as routed through a switch and fuse/breaker panel.....think about what could be direct wired to the battery that may (or may not) have an in-line fuse instead of using the fuse/breaker panel....

cliff
 
My preference when I come down Rob, would be to have charged batteries, it will make fault finding a lot easier

Actually just thinking Rob, I have 2 very good Jump Starter Packs, might be worth me bringing them disconnectiing your batteries and connecting these in, that at least will give full voltage to fault find with.


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Thanks for all the ideas everyone. I am headed to the boat tomorrow and will give all of them a shot!

Ian: if I have no luck I will be buying new batteries shortly and we can test with brand new batteries in there which will make it all a lot easier !

I have checked to make sure no bilge or sump pumps are running continuesly.
I also checked that it was not the stereo..or the amp by disconnecting them
Both.
I found a satellite phone which was powered on and thought that may be the cause but shutting it off did not make a difference.
Also thought it may be the Glomex antenna amplifier but again no difference with it disconnected.

The alternator is interesting will give that a try next. Or alternators in my boat.

Thanks again everyone. I will update at the end of the day tomorrow once I have spent several hours diagnosing and trying to find this damn problem. Hoping the dc clamp helps lead me to it.
 
Rob, the first test you might want to run would be before you connect the batteries. Use the ohmmeter function of the multimeter to test resistance between the positive and negative battery cables. You should get a big number. If it's zero or close to it you likely have a direct ground that will need to be found.
 
Alnav: many thanks for that idea !! Will be at the boat to dive and clean the bottom tomorow and will run that test first thing and report back what the numbers are.

No luck with the dc clamp! So yeah getting nowhere with it as of now. I have to wait a little for an incoming payment then I will buy the four new batteries ask ian when he has some time and go from there. As unless the test you are talking about here Alnav comes up with something I will not be able to figure this out!

Tried the alternator test to no avail. I just can't find this damned thing. I put some inox battery conditioner in the bad batteries yesterday wonder what I will find tomorrow when I go back.
According to what the package says it will help 97% of batteries as long as there is not a fault. More than likely mine have a fault but its worth a shot!

Ok will report back tomorrow with results of the battery tests and some video of the underside of the boat lets see what's on there haha
 
Alnav: I am guessing I have done something wrong. I disconnected the batteries then used the ohm circuit test function on my multimeter and got nothing ! It says there is no circuit there, is that even possible?

Or is this what you were saying if I get no reading it means I have a bad ground somewhere?

If that is the case how do I go about finding it?
I can't imagine it being possible there is no circuit there ??

I tried every single setting on the multimeter in case I had it in the wrong setting but pretty much the same thing across the board.

So if it is a bad ground that would explain the huge draw on the batteries why they go flat so quickly and how my charger has been blowing 80 amp fuses?

I'm confused help lol

Thanks Alnav
 
I wouldn't expect a reading between positive and negative terminals, no circuit is what you want.


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Ian: so ok I don't get it was I using the wrong function of the multimeter? I looked it up and the ohm function was the same as the circuit test. I got no reading at all there.

Or am I completely misunderstanding what Alnav said I should of done?

You can't help me diagnose this battery problem until I have new batteries in there right?
I am still awaiting the ability to buy them.

I tried the inox conditioner in the batteries and it sprung some life back into them but by no means fixed them. The 12 volt meter goes up to 13.8 with the charger on. Charged them for two hours but the second the charger is off they drop down to 10 v and pretty rapidly discharge from there so they are just shot.

I called the place I got them from they suggested the battery conditioner and if that does not work they suggest I take them to them and they will shock the plates. Apparently that can also save them. The hardest part is actually getting them off the boat and to the battery place with what they weigh. They told me to test for a fault which does not seem to be present so two of these four may be able to be saved! Two are definately gone!

Bloody nightmare!
 
Most multimeters have a buzzer function on ohms

If you join the test prongs together, you should hear the buzzer and see 0000 which is how much resistance there is. The buzzer means there is NO resistance.

Basically in a DC voltage system, current flows from negative to positive, though we measure it and picture it the other way around, doesn't matter, principle is the same.

Everything that operates is basically a resistance. A light globe, a radio, the starter motor, etc, etc.

Everything that operates usually has a switch ( of some sort) when it operates, there is a resistance that requires a flow (amperage) to overcome that resistance.

If there was NO resistance, then the flow would run straight from one side of the battery to the other.......short circuit.......blow fuses.......melt cables, etc etc.

So first check the multimeter, hold the test prongs together, should be 0 resistance, buzzer sounding if fitted.

Then check positive and negative leads, I would expect no circuit, which means there is no short circuit


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I can possibly test without new batteries. I have 2 very good (best in the market) jump start packs in the warehouse. Should be able to connect them up and fault find


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Honestly rob, with all the mucking about you've done my guess is you have faulty diodes in the alternators or damaged voltage regulators. This will happen if the battery switches are turned off or the batteries disconnected when the engines are running. It could also happen if one of the batteries goes open circuit, which if I remember did happen to you before.

So if you want to make one last ditch rough and ready check to rule this out do the following.

1. IMPORTANT
Disconnect the + from both battery banks first and make sure it can't fall back onto the terminals accidentally.

2. EQUALLY MPORTANT
At each alternator disconnect all the cables and wires. Label them and secure them so they cannot touch anything. If they touch the engines or any grounded metal it could start a fire.

3.
Reconnect the + at each battery. Check lights and other DC devices work then shut everything off and isolate by turning off the breakers if possible.

4.
Check for current draw. If zero then the alts or voltage regulators are faulty. If not zero or unchanged then you have an insidious load somewhere and you'll need help finding it. It may take a while.

5.
Once again remove the battery + connections and then reconnect the alt wiring. Then reconnect the batteries.

It's hard for me to get down your way and help you out (I'm on the Central Coast) but if you want I can give you my phone number. Maybe the day Ian comes over I might try and come down too.
 
That sounds like a good catchup. I think Testlab and I both sit on two forums.

I can be fairly flexible with my time next week, fairly tight the week after.


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Rob,

I pulled up the schematic for your boat on the Searay website. It is in the back of your manual if you have it. The 4 batteries are used to provide electricity to 8 different feeds. They are called Port 24v Load, port 24V line, port 12V Load, port 12v line, star 24v load, Star 24v line, star 12v load, and star 12v line. Star and port designate which battery bank the derive from, 24 or 12 designate the system bus voltage, and load and line describe which side of the battery disconnect switch they come from. So, the feed called a load in on the output side of the battery disconnect switch and anything connected here can be turned off by turning off the switch. The feeds called Line are fed from the input side of the battery disconnect switch and therefore are connected directly to the battery. It is the things connected here that could be draining your batteries. These things include bilge pumps, emergency pumps, blowers, stereo memory, systems monitor and sump pump.

Your batteries are connected to the alternator through a battery isolator, so even if the diodes are bad in the alternators, they should not be able to put a load on the batteries because of the diodes in the battery isolator. Unless that's gone bad and is a direct short or something.

If you are only showing a 3 amp load I really don't think there is anything wrong with your boat. The stereo memory and the systems monitor probably draw that much. it just wasnt designed to sit unpowered for months. You might want to consider investing in a wind generator or a solar cell charger that can keep the batteries topped up and combat that 3 amp load, if you can't find the load and snip it. If you look at the schematic I am going to try and attach, it seems like there are breakers for each device mentioned and so you may be able to shed some light on the situation by turning them all off. Good Luck. Pete

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I would 2nd that. 3A, for everything not disconnectable I would expect.

If you want to look at replacing the solar panels that hit the drink in the storm, pm or email me with the size you had, I will give you a price


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Rob, sorry to have confused the issue. Ian is perfectly correct, no circuit is good. I should have said a small number close to zero might indicate a ground that is draining your batteries. I think you're in good hands with Ian and test lab and I'm sure the hands-on look at your system you're planning will find the draw.
 
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