Job offer, "chasing" money, career changes and the like

jmauld said:
Take the offer to your management and see what you’re worth to them.
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I did that, 6 months ago. I had an offer then, 15% bump in pay. That's when HR did their "market analysis" and I got 5%, seemed good enough so I stayed. Annual merit increases came out 2 months later, everyone got 4%, I got 0 because of my recent 5% bump. So I go a year an a half now with basically a 1% bump.

SKybolt said:
You didn't mention how long you have been at the current job, but I will say this, if it's been over 5yrs then all the signs say jump. Another thing no one has mentioned, there is only one demographic of person that can get laid off with little to no repercussion, white mid 50's males. If you fit that demographic then definitely jump positions. Sorry just being honest.
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3 years with my current company, and yeah, a white male in his mid 50s. I have lost my position with a company 4 times in my career from a "reduction in workforce". One time was the one mentioned earlier where they did it right before being vested in my 401k. I lost about $40k in 401k from that.

I wrote down the pros/cons, including financials, yesterday. The 20% bump in pay is actually more like 16%. My current employers 401K match is higher than the prospective employers. Which I know my current employer can change/take away at any point.

I have A LOT of flexibility in my time/schedule with my current employer, which is very nice. For example, if I want to take off right now, this morning, drive to the boat, work/play on it, drive back, I can. I can do all of my meetings/email and such from my phone. If I want to end my day at 3PM, I can. I may have that in time with a new employer, though I may not, it's unknown. The "comfort" I have here is nice. The work is meh at best. It's not challenging anymore, it's not new, innovative, creative, etc. I never looked for this comfort/flexibility in a job before though. It just kind of happened here, mostly because of covid/remote work. We go back to the office hybrid in June.

I switched from one area to my current area 7 months ago hoping to learn/work with newer technologies, build cool software, etc. Not so much, more of the same, keep the lights on/engine running kind of work. I get frustrated with how we do things here (process) knowing there are better, more efficient ways. Those in IT Software Development probably understand what I mean. I offer my help to other areas, take initiative, share more efficient ways to do things, list out options, etc. It's usually met with "there's no budget/resources for that".

The new gig is to build out my own new team, from scratch. Some of my questions for the hiring manager were answered with "that will be up to you" which is exciting, though having "been there done that" before it could be more of the same, "no budget for that" or "band aid a solution together for now".
 
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I've been with the same company for 20 years this month. Not in the same role, but a bunch of different ones. I value the stability and benefits, as well as understanding the company culture and how to navigate it. I had a friend leave about 5 years ago for a different opportunity, and because he was doing 2 jobs with serving 2 different bosses that both wanted all his time. He's told me many times he regrets leaving, and he's tried to come back.

It sounds like you have a couple significant considerations to weigh.
  • Flexibility. You work from home (though hybrid is coming?). You can currently make your own schedule and have the freedom to do your job as you see fit. This is a pretty important factor for quality of life.
  • Engagement. Seems like you're not that engaged in what you do now: "the work is meh at best". Seems like the new role would let you build your own team, and you'll likely be more engaged - if that's what you want. You're current company doesn't seem that interested in building / leading a high quality organization with engaged employees.
  • Compensation. May not be the most important thing here, but it's a factor. Compensation is a signal to what value you are perceived to bring. The new opportunity has sought you out and seems to be signaling you have higher value than where you are now.
  • New role would be with a new product that doesn't have a track record - there's some risk there.

I'm certainly biased toward stability and security. But...it seems like a well-timed opportunity to make a change if you're feeling up to it.
 
You gents are awesome, I appreciate you listening and your thoughtful replies.

Having lost my job 4 times I tend to lean towards stability now. I know no job is guaranteed. I also know I can find something quickly should it not work out having been there before.

I am struggling with engagement, passion for my work. I have always mostly had it in my career, especially when I first changed careers and got into Software Development. I don't know if it's age, complacency, hearing "we can't" too many times when I know there are better ways for us to do our jobs here, or what. My company, like most, operates by the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I hear "that's the way we have always done it" more times than I can remember/count. When I suggest new/different ways I hear "Yeah, no time no resources no budget though".

My other challenge is I manage many teams who support many products so I do not have time to be a SME in any of them. I don't have time to learn the product, learn the technologies, etc. I am stuck in nonsense meetings all day. This bothers me at my core. My boss is Ok with it, I am not though.

I used to have that fire in my belly. Working with super smart folks, new technology, building cool software, learning, growing, etc. The industry has changed though. It's now mostly contractors, Indians, off shore resources and such. It's become process heavy as well. We spend more time checking a box, a gate, then we do building and delivering amazing software.

I am just wondering if with age/time, it's ok to feel the way I do and just "settle" where I am and ride it out.

Heck, the fact that I am on here so much is a sign to me ;). As I type this out I am in one of my 10+ daily meetings, bored to tears.
 
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I would reach out to upper management, not your boss (if you have a relationship with them). My guess is your boss doesn't care. Upper management will definitely know the challenges of hiring people now. Tell them you weren't looking, but someone reached out with an offer. Explain all your issues, and that you're looking for a challenge, not a job change. Maybe get a raise, maybe get more meaningful work. If not, buh bye!

Tim
 
mrsrobinson said:
r
I am just wondering if with age/time, it's ok to feel the way I do and just "settle" where I am and ride it out.
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Age should not really play into a decision to stay or leave at your career stage. Fire in the belly can be there at any stage of your career. I retired from my CEO position because I did tire of the long hours and constant stress of running a hospital. But that was after 34 years at the same place and knowing that the next few things that needed attention would take years to accomplish. I was 67 years old so it was time. However, I spent the next 8 years training medical students at a Big Ten University medical school. It was totally different work and the fire in the belly came right back. I also helped select the entering class for each year and that was really interesting. I really enjoyed that job, but it became routine and I retired. Now, I am managing our family's wealth. This is something I was never able to do before as I was too busy running a major healthcare organization. The fire is still burning. So.....don't assume that at 55 you are too old to be engaged. Find something that interests you no matter your age.
 
You come to me with an offer from another company and ask me to match or better it....you will get a hand shake, a thank-you and a good luck.
 
Blueone said:
You come to me with an offer from another company and ask me to match or better it....you will get a hand shake, a thank-you and a good luck.
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5 years ago, I would totally agree. In this environment, I'm doing what I can to keep you.

Tim
 
mrsrobinson said:
I have an interesting job offer I am considering. They found me, I am really not looking. It's about a 20%+ increase in pay, potential for more. 10% travel, no travel with my current job. I have never "chased" money in my career.

I made a career change 8 years out of college because I was bored. I got into IT, specifically software development. I self-taught myself and took a few night classes at my college. I took a big pay cut (40%) to do so (had to sell my nice SUV and get a cheap car and no more dinners out for a while) to follow my passion. The money eventually took care of itself. Not bragging, sharing who I am/was.

Now, in the latter part of my career, this offer is appealing. A chance to make some more money going into retirement. The work "on paper" looks more interesting/appealing then my current gig. It's a brand new product for an international company that's currently in beta. I like everyone I interviewed with, cultural seems like a nice fit. I have become complacent where I am, comfortable I guess. Which has really never been me. But, perhaps that is ok at this point in my career.

Things I think about:
  • I am fully vested in my 401K where I am, new company has a 4 year vesting period and the match is lower. I share this as I was once laid off from a big job 1 month before I was fully vested, and lost it all, literally.
  • It's a promotion by title, but really the same work. I have never been a titles person.
  • 10% travel with new company, no travel with current gig. I am not a fan of work travel.
  • New gig is 100% remote except for travel - travel as it has been explained to me is "when you think you need to to be with your team" 1 time a month, 2-3 days.
  • I don't know what I don't know, I know what "I've got" where I am and it's ok. I am referring to work life balance, stress, anxiety and the like. I have it pretty good where I am with flexibility. We have been 100% remote, need to return to the office 1 day a week starting in June. I have a great manager.
  • I don't need the money
  • Financials for current gig were bad this year, received 1/2 my bonus and no merit increase. Employees are starting to resign. Lost a couple big customers, pipeline as best I can tell doesn't look great.
  • I recently promoted an employee, who now makes more than me.
  • I asked for more money, HR said their "market research" says No. My "market research", which is interviewing, says different.
  • I may have missed a few :)

I am curious to hear what others have done, their thought process, pros and cons they weighed, especially at this stage in my career (I am 55).

Thanks
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Sounds like your biggest concern is being fully vested in the 401k with the new employer, all you need to do is say you want to be 100% vested right away and you will accept the offer.
There is no requirement stating it takes years to become fully vested.
 
NorCalRobert said:
Sounds like your biggest concern is being fully vested in the 401k with the new employer, all you need to do is say you want to be 100% vested right away and you will accept the offer.
There is no requirement stating it takes years to become fully vested.
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Tried that, they said No, it's a policy that applies to all employees.
 
mrsrobinson said:
Interesting article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/counteroffers-dont-work-heres-why-you-shouldnt-make-robert-glazer/
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My manager called me over the weekend and told me I needed to interview. He’s getting handed a 2% budget increase, and feels that he can’t offer raises that he thinks he should be able to offer. BUT he can counteroffer job offers from other companies. I was already courting another company due to knowing about the 2% budget through the grapevine. Hopefully I’ll get an offer and can go back to get an increase that I should be given anyway. With that said, I shouldn’t have to do this. If this company valued me they wouldn’t put me at risk of leaving like this.
 
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Tim Fila said:
5 years ago, I would totally agree. In this environment, I'm doing what I can to keep you.

Tim
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Thats a slippery slope... I just had this situation last week when HR didn't want to write someone up in case they quit. I said fire him.....then what are you going to do?. You're still coming to work tomorrow the company will still be here and we will figure it out. HR wrote him up and he walked out of the building saying phuck you. This morning he came back ...apologized and got written up again.
If you dont have backup plans for everyone....you are going to lose the battle in the end
 
We are at the point, that if they show up for an interview, they are hired. I hate being in this position, but we need bodies. I was always the "take your time and hire the right one", we just can't do that anymore.

Tim
 
Years ago when I was younger and as aggressive as you could be. I had a facility 150k sqft, 100 CNC machines pumping $80M/yr 24/6. With a lot of automation…..Just a gong show
One OEM customer came in and their only agenda was a contingency plan for fire, power, god. It was like you got to be kidding me….so after procrastinating for a long time and the customer being relentless for a answer. I dug in… this was huge… so can’t explain it all… but one example was electric. We had two receptacles put out side where those big generator trailers could sit outside and plug into. We had an agreement with a local company and the customer to supply the generators in the event we lost power. Then it actually happened…. We lost power in a weather event. Trailers showed up almost immediately at the forecast of the winter storm coming…. So all we had to do was flip the switch and turn them on. …from that day I have always had a contingency plan.

You need to do the same with labor… I do today in my small shop

damn … sorry… wordy. I tried to keep it short
 
Blueone said:
YSo all we had to do was flip the switch and turn them on. …from that day I have always had a contingency plan.

You need to do the same with labor… I do today in my small shop
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Agreed, I always identify key person risks on a new to me team, and all of my teams, and always have a contingency plan. All of us are fungible.
 
Very interesting discussion, been watching

Contingency and succession planning is a must in any position.

I call it "getting your juices flowing", fire in the belly is a good one too.

I started out with fire, fire that was generated went I went out on my own at 16 as a result of need. Need gas, need food, need housing. Top 2% in Fla SAT scores in '80, and a 4 time college dropout by '82, four differant majors. Finally decided on EE as my path. Florida Institute of Technology, think it is Fla Tech now.

Married at 21, moved to Ga and started a low voltage contracting company (alarms, cctv, etc). Burned out at 27, sold the accounts ( would have retired by 40 had I kept it- but not looking back) and got into manufacturing, ground floor, shift electrician at a local Georgia Pacific plant.

Had our son, manufacturing became very comfortable for the next 30 years. I topped out at the GP plant and went into plastics, worked primarily with developing off the shelf PLC and motion controllers to replace the OEM "legacy controllers" so we were not bound to thier every 10 year upgrades. I changed employers 4 times in that period-it was never for money, I had either topped out or the "juices wern't flowing" and I needed growth. In every case, they offered me more to stay. My response was always "why did you wait 'till now? I've already made up my mind." And I left. Wound up in corporate Operations and Engineering management for the last 15yrs.

The last gig was local and it got me off the 50 week/year corporate travel plan. I was charged with building, startup, and ongoing operation of a plastic plant in my community. A great chance to help and be a part of the community I thought. And it was, I thought I would coast to retirement there, big fish, small pond thing.

In late '15 the C diagnosis hit, in Jan '16 had the surgery and subsequent radiation treatments. The company was privately owned by 3 brothers and they were most gracefull in supporting my recovery. Then in Jan '18, one of them flew down out of the blue and put me in a position that was against my principles and morals- I took the next two days off, went back and told them to go pound sand, and walked out-no notice-F 'em.

That was weird at 56, blew my whole thought process about stability and "being comfortable" away. I was raised and taught that you get a good career, work it, then retire and die. The "American Dream" I was told- yeah right. I raised my son to be entreprenural and he has done well.

About the time the C hit, I was investing in my son and nephew, an injection molding shop they were starting. I gave them the startup cash. Right about the time I left my "comfortable career" my son had an opportunity to secure some contract manufacturing in the Cannabis industry. We designed and built grow systems. I picked my tools up and helped him build 200 grow chambers. Did all the electrical BOMs, design, schematics, and got them UL listed. Still recovering at the time, and the physical labor really helped me I think.

Fast forward 4 years of a roller coaster ride. The company we manufactured for sold, new owner tried to cut us out after pulling a 1MM PO from us, then they realized we owned the IP. Son split the contract manufacturing off the metal amd plastics businesses and we merged. All of us got a 6 figure jobs and stock options, they were wanting to IPO. So they did the IPO, stocks skyrocketed. Myself, son, and two nephews pulled our vests last year (about half the awards) and as a result we are all debt free with good bank on top. And we still have all our retirement acccounts untouched.

So I went from a comfortable 6 figure job to 4 years of high volatility, crazy f'in ride. But I have made more in these 4 years than the previous 12 combined in "my comfortable career".

Wife had a similar "comfortable career", she told them to go pound sand after 30 yrs with the same company last year at 54. She's flipping houses now, she us selling one now and will clear 200K in this market.

I got lulled into complacement over the years, the shakeup was eye opening for me and like I said, changed my perspective (along with the cancer). I don't look back and don't really regret anything, but if I had to do it different I think I would stay closer to the fire instead of being comfortable.

At least now I have no boss, make my own schedule, spend as much time at "The Office" (the 440 CV) as I want, and get to help the kids out. No employees ( kids run that), no ERP, no HR, no conference calls, no bullshit anymore except family drama, which is always there anyways.

I've always said "every man is responsible for his own destiny". When someone or something interferes with that, you have to adapt and retake control of your destiny.

It's a crap shoot, do the best you can

Hope you make the right decision for you and your family, that's all I ever tried to do.

Good luck with your decision.
 
440 Jim said:
Very interesting discussion, been watching

Contingency and succession planning is a must in any position.

I call it "getting your juices flowing", fire in the belly is a good one too.

I started out with fire, fire that was generated went I went out on my own at 16 as a result of need. Need gas, need food, need housing. Top 2% in Fla SAT scores in '80, and a 4 time college dropout by '82, four differant majors. Finally decided on EE as my path. Florida Institute of Technology, think it is Fla Tech now.

Married at 21, moved to Ga and started a low voltage contracting company (alarms, cctv, etc). Burned out at 27, sold the accounts ( would have retired by 40 had I kept it- but not looking back) and got into manufacturing, ground floor, shift electrician at a local Georgia Pacific plant.

Had our son, manufacturing became very comfortable for the next 30 years. I topped out at the GP plant and went into plastics, worked primarily with developing off the shelf PLC and motion controllers to replace the OEM "legacy controllers" so we were not bound to thier every 10 year upgrades. I changed employers 4 times in that period-it was never for money, I had either topped out or the "juices wern't flowing" and I needed growth. In every case, they offered me more to stay. My response was always "why did you wait 'till now? I've already made up my mind." And I left. Wound up in corporate Operations and Engineering management for the last 15yrs.

The last gig was local and it got me off the 50 week/year corporate travel plan. I was charged with building, startup, and ongoing operation of a plastic plant in my community. A great chance to help and be a part of the community I thought. And it was, I thought I would coast to retirement there, big fish, small pond thing.

In late '15 the C diagnosis hit, in Jan '16 had the surgery and subsequent radiation treatments. The company was privately owned by 3 brothers and they were most gracefull in supporting my recovery. Then in Jan '18, one of them flew down out of the blue and put me in a position that was against my principles and morals- I took the next two days off, went back and told them to go pound sand, and walked out-no notice-F 'em.

That was weird at 56, blew my whole thought process about stability and "being comfortable" away. I was raised and taught that you get a good career, work it, then retire and die. The "American Dream" I was told- yeah right. I raised my son to be entreprenural and he has done well.

About the time the C hit, I was investing in my son and nephew, an injection molding shop they were starting. I gave them the startup cash. Right about the time I left my "comfortable career" my son had an opportunity to secure some contract manufacturing in the Cannabis industry. We designed and built grow systems. I picked my tools up and helped him build 200 grow chambers. Did all the electrical BOMs, design, schematics, and got them UL listed. Still recovering at the time, and the physical labor really helped me I think.

Fast forward 4 years of a roller coaster ride. The company we manufactured for sold, new owner tried to cut us out after pulling a 1MM PO from us, then they realized we owned the IP. Son split the contract manufacturing off the metal amd plastics businesses and we merged. All of us got a 6 figure jobs and stock options, they were wanting to IPO. So they did the IPO, stocks skyrocketed. Myself, son, and two nephews pulled our vests last year (about half the awards) and as a result we are all debt free with good bank on top. And we still have all our retirement acccounts untouched.

So I went from a comfortable 6 figure job to 4 years of high volatility, crazy f'in ride. But I have made more in these 4 years than the previous 12 combined in "my comfortable career".

Wife had a similar "comfortable career", she told them to go pound sand after 30 yrs with the same company last year at 54. She's flipping houses now, she us selling one now and will clear 200K in this market.

I got lulled into complacement over the years, the shakeup was eye opening for me and like I said, changed my perspective (along with the cancer). I don't look back and don't really regret anything, but if I had to do it different I think I would stay closer to the fire instead of being comfortable.

At least now I have no boss, make my own schedule, spend as much time at "The Office" (the 440 CV) as I want, and get to help the kids out. No employees ( kids run that), no ERP, no HR, no conference calls, no bullshit anymore except family drama, which is always there anyways.

I've always said "every man is responsible for his own destiny". When someone or something interferes with that, you have to adapt and retake control of your destiny.

It's a crap shoot, do the best you can

Hope you make the right decision for you and your family, that's all I ever tried to do.

Good luck with your decision.
Click to expand...
Well said, an amazing, thoughtful, detail reply, thank you!
 
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