Its really war now

Right, that’s just a change that we can revert back to fairly easily. It doesn’t require the pipeline.

my point is that importing other peoples oil is a superior position to be in. Just because we are buying oil fro others doesn’t make us dependent on them. They are dependent on us. If there are 10,000 barrels of oil left in the world, I would rather we be the ones holding those 10,000 barrels. Selling our own supply makes us weaker.
 
we are a net importer of crude oil. we do export some refined products.
Rest assured we was a energy independent country until JB, now nope.
 
jmauld said:
The pipeline has nothing to do with us exporting oil. We were exporting without the pipeline we COULD still export without it. The question is do you think now is a good time for us to export oil or should we hold onto it in case there is an extended conflict. Personally I would rather we have our own supply of oil vs selling it to others and finding ourselves in a position of needing to purchase it from somewhere else.
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True, but aren't we importing a lot of Russian oil right now?
 
We are still energy independent.

If you have 300,000 in cash and finance a 100k boat, because you rather hold your cash, that doesn’t make you dependent on the bank. That’s a position of power.

in fact I would argue that holding onto your cash in times of uncertainty is a better option.
 
jmauld said:
Right, that’s just a change that we can revert back to fairly easily. It doesn’t require the pipeline.

my point is that importing other peoples oil is a superior position to be in. Just because we are buying oil fro others doesn’t make us dependent on them. They are dependent on us. If there are 10,000 barrels of oil left in the world, I would rather we be the ones holding those 10,000 barrels. Selling our own supply makes us weaker.
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It took 3 years to become a net exporter....and after 1 year of positive growth a new regime came in and 'shit' on all those companies capitol investments. "Easy" for you to say.
 
OllieC said:
It took 3 years to become a net exporter....and after 1 year of positive growth a new regime came in and 'shit' on all those companies capitol investments. "Easy" for you to say.
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I know, but this can be undone if needed. There is a legitimate argument to hold on to this supply for now. This gives us the option of cutting off oil sales by Russia. Even if that means higher prices for us, that’s a far better solution than going to war with them, and it hurts them more than it hurts us.

I liked a lot of things that trump did, but opening up our oil supply to others is not a move that I ever supported. That move weakens us during a period of war. Oil is life during a war.
 
jmauld said:
I know, but this can be undone if needed. There is a legitimate argument to hold on to this supply for now. This gives us the option of cutting off oil sales by Russia. Even if that means higher prices for us, that’s a far better solution than going to war with them, and it hurts them more than it hurts us.

I liked a lot of things that trump did, but opening up our oil supply to others is not a move that I ever supported. That move weakens us during a period of war. Oil is life during a war.
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I'm not sure I'm grasping at what you're trying to say. What does 'opening up our supply' mean? You also seem to be stuck on oil. We have other energy resources, natural gas, coal as well as rare earth metals, minerals etc. We have generations of energy. Being energy independent doesn't weaken us at all. Being reliant on others makes us weak. This isn't a faucet you can just turn back on.

I'll also add that our annual operating debt is now $30T. Would being a net importer or exporter help with that debt? Would you rather sell energy to allies or buy energy from the axis?
 
My point is that buying energy from others doesn’t make us dependent on them. That’s a choice that we make. We ARE energy independent regardless of where we get our energy from.
 
jmauld said:
My point is that buying energy from others doesn’t make us dependent on them. That’s a choice that we make. We ARE energy independent regardless of where we get our energy from.
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You're all backwards. If we don't extract enough energy from our own resources to meet our demand, then we are dependent on others to sell it to us. If we extract more than we need, we can sell it on the open market, or hoard it if we so choose.

Brandon's war on fossil fuels is destructive to this country and its citizens. Taking energy out of the system, drive the price higher, and enriched a guy like Putin. That's smart thinking there, Brandon.

Bottom line, energy independence is key to a strong and secure USA.
 
Creekwood said:
You have played right into Putin's hands if you believe that. Why do you think that there was Russian influence into both elections, and Russian propaganda pumped into social media fees under face accounts? And no, it was not to get Trump elected. It was to fuel division and polarization in the US, so that he could do what he wanted while Democrats and Republicans fight each other as enemies. And it worked PERFECTLY.

If the US politicians do not get aligned with the realization that they have a common enemy for a little while, this will not go well for the free world.

Trump would not have stopped this. He (and you) think he could, but Putin was waiting. He did not care who won the last election. He was waiting for the division and infighting to get far enough along before he felt like whoever was the president, would not have universal support. AND HE DID IT PERFECTLY.

So get behind your government. Tell both sides they need to act as one. Maybe only on this one issue, and only temporarily.
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That's rich right there. The Democrats are in complete control -- President, House and Senate. 80 some odd million people voted for that. The "majority" won. There is not fight between Ds and Rs. Rs are not relevant now. But now it when Putin decides to go in. Because he knows Biden is a POS and won't/can't do anything. The EU is even worse. USSR part 2 is coming folks, and there ain't a thing we'll be able to do about it.
 
Golfman25 said:
You're all backwards. If we don't extract enough energy from our own resources to meet our demand, then we are dependent on others to sell it to us. If we extract more than we need, we can sell it on the open market, or hoard it if we so choose.

Brandon's war on fossil fuels is destructive to this country and its citizens. Taking energy out of the system, drive the price higher, and enriched a guy like Putin. That's smart thinking there, Brandon.

Bottom line, energy independence is key to a strong and secure USA.
Click to expand...
Unless you believe that those resources are unlimited then you’re looking at this wrong. When you go out to eat. Are you dependent on the restaurant or is the restaurant dependent on you?
 
jmauld said:
Unless you believe that those resources are unlimited then you’re looking at this wrong. When you go out to eat. Are you dependent on the restaurant or is the restaurant dependent on you?
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If Putin says F U and stops selling us the oil tomorrow - what happens to us?
 
firecadet613 said:
If Putin says F U and stops selling us the oil tomorrow - what happens to us?
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We go back to using our own resources. That’s not even a threat he can wave. Why do you think he went straight to threatening nuclear war. That’s the only play he has against us.
 
We are not energy independent since the regime took over. In fact they have cratered that. For some reason I cannot understand what I have read here.
 
We are not dependent on others for our energy. We have chosen to not use our own resources. This does NOT make us dependent on others. This is a choice made to hold on to a valuable resource. One that should increase in value over time.
 
jmauld said:
We are not dependent on others for our energy. We have chosen to not use our own resources. This does NOT make us dependent on others. This is a choice made to hold on to a valuable resource. One that should increase in value over time.
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Sir we are dependent, currently we are dependent on the world supply.
Until the presidential office changes we cannot drill, explore, or extract new oil. In fact we cannot even continue the XL pipeline that was just transporting energy from Canada to the USA.
Totally disagree on we have chosen this path. The fact is Biden retracted the permits for the pipeline from Canada and stopped the exploration.
 
jmauld said:
We go back to using our own resources. That’s not even a threat he can wave. Why do you think he went straight to threatening nuclear war. That’s the only play he has against us.
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Then we should counter with the same bullshit sir. He has the upper hand on energy due to his geographical location to Europe. They took it hook line and sinker becauuse of cost.
Geez, not sure where you are coming from.
 
JayhawkCurtis said:
Putin never would have don’t this with trump in the white house, wanna know how I know? BECAUSE HE DIDNT!
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Of course Putin did, this started before Trump was elected and intensified under Trumps watch. Trump just decided to ignore it.
 
RBB said:
Then we should counter with the same bullshit sir. He has the upper hand on energy due to his geographical location to Europe. They took it hook line and sinker becauuse of cost.
Geez, not sure where you are coming from.
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I do agree with you that Europe needs to find a new supply.
 
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